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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 Feb 2014

Order of Business

The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re regulation on the temporary relocation of the European Police College, CEPOL, back from committee, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; and No. 2, ESB (Electronic Communications Networks) Bill 2013 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 11.45 a.m.

I inform the House that next week we will concentrate on job creation and the economy. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, will be in the House to discuss job creation and economic growth; the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, will be here to discuss An Action Plan for Jobs, while the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, will discuss apprenticeships and training with us.

I thank the Leader for the update on the schedule for next week. Many of us have called for a debate on jobs and I appreciate the Leader's arranging these important debates with the Ministers and Minister of State.

I commend Senator Feargal Quinn for the passing of his Upward Only Rent (Clauses and Reviews) Bill 2013 yesterday. I know that many Senators on the other side of the House support the Bill but they did not see fit to vote for it. It is important that the Bill was passed. I hope that Fine Gael, in particular, will see through the commitment in its party manifesto prior to the 2011 general election which said the party would pass legislation to give all tenants the right to have their commercial rents reviewed in 2011, irrespective of upward-only or other review clauses. I know that manifesto promises do not really mean anything but this is an opportunity for Fine Gael to make good on its promise on this issue. Senator Feargak Quinn did a magnificent job yesterday and my party was only too happy to support him. The Bill has now passed in the Seanad, with the tacit assistance of the provisional Labour Party grouping of the three missing-in-action Senators. I note that they are not here this morning either, but I would say to those Senators that they would be better off voting for proposals that they support rather than just going missing. Their actions are pathetic. If they are going to ride two horses on every issue and stand for nothing, that is pathetic. They have done it before on many occasions-----

They let the Bill through.

Yes; I am delighted the Bill went through, but I would prefer it if they came to the House and actually put their money where their mouths were.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I do have a question. I want to know what the position is on Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill. Will the Government accept it in the Dáil?

I also commend my colleague, Senator Mary White, and thank the Government for agreeing to pass the Parental Leave Bill 2013 on Committee Stage. It is very good legislation and all of us agree with it. That Bill gives lie to what the Taoiseach and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, said in the run-up to the campaign to abolish the Seanad - namely, that the Seanad was a dog that never barked. That assertion is completely untrue, as demonstrated yesterday by Bills from Senators Feargal Quinn and Mary White. This House has a very important function which it carries out very well.

I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the proposed new GP contracts. I ask that the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, or the Minister of State, Deputy Alex White, to whom the buck seems to have been passed on this issue, come to the House to discuss the matter. I ask that we be given an opportunity to put some of the concerns of the GPs directly to the Minister or Minister of State. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate specifically on the contract for the under-sixes. Most of us would prefer to see children who need GP cards getting them. I am all for the idea of under-sixes having free GP care, but I am not in favour of children who are seven, eight or nine years old losing medical cards or GP cards. What is the point in trying to roll out an unworkable contract to give free GP care to healthy children under six years, many of whom are in families who can afford to pay for such care, while taking medical cards and GP cards from children and the elderly who need them? I met a woman last week with terminal lung cancer who really needs her card. Cystic fibrosis patients are having their cards taken from them and the Government knows this. I ask that the Minister of State come to the House to address these issues and urge the Leader to make the necessary arrangements.

I join Senator Darragh O'Brien in thanking the Leader for outlining the format of the debates for next week. It is welcome that the focus will be on jobs, because a number of Members have called for a debate on this issue, and it is good to hear that the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation will be here to discuss different aspects of the jobs strategy.

I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the forthcoming report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality on domestic violence. There are suggestions before the Committee on Procedures and Privileges that the Seanad formally debate reports from Oireachtas committees, and it would be good to see that set up formally. The Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality is in the process of conducting hearings on domestic and gender-based violence. We had an excellent series of presentations yesterday and last week we had another excellent set of presentations which have been discussed on the floor of this House. Senator Tony Mulcahy made a particularly powerful contribution in that regard. It would be good for this House to debate the report that the Oireachtas committee produces, which will recommend specific changes in legislation that may assist in more effective tackling or combating of domestic and gender-based violence.

The committee also heard from the Turn Off the Red Light campaign.

On the same note, I welcome the vote in the European Parliament on Wednesday.

One might ask about the blue light.

The Parliament voted on a resolution put forward by socialist MEP Mary Honeyball calling for EU support for the Nordic approach to criminalising the clients of prostitution rather than those engaged in prostitution. This follows a report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality published last year in which the committee recommended that a similar approach be adopted in Ireland. I have asked the Leader for a debate on that report. We are engaged in correspondence with the Minister for Justice and Equality on the issue.

This is sanctimonious rubbish and an abuse of language.

I really welcome the clear signal from the European Parliament that the best approach to tackling prostitution is to criminalise the client, that is, to criminalise the purchase rather than the sale of sex. We are seeing that understanding develop across the European Union and-----

There is no evidence base whatsoever.

Please allow Senator Ivana Bacik to continue without interruption.

She should read the Swedish Government's own report-----

I have been to Sweden and met many of those involved on a front-line basis with those engaged in prostitution.

I am sure the Senator is not the only one.

I urge the Senator to read the transcripts of the extensive hearings of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality on prostitution.

I urge the Senator to read the academic reviews.

Senator Ivana Bacik to continue, without interruption, please.

I do not want to engage in a conversation across the floor-----

I add my support to those who have called for a debate on the situation in Ukraine, which is very volatile. We all very much welcome the fact that the killing has stopped and deplore the awful killings of last week. We must debate the situation in Ukraine and keep an eye on ongoing developments there.

I thank the Leader for arranging the debates on unemployment next week. I also thank colleagues for supporting Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill yesterday. The advice communicated from the Attorney General is strange. It suggests one form of property right - namely, rent - enjoys constitutional protection, while all other forms of income do not. All other forms of income have declined in this recession. Indeed, the Constitutional Convention debated a wider definition of property rights only last weekend. Social welfare payments, wages and other forms of income are not protected by the Constitution. We need to have a wider definition of property rights rather than the one that was used to back up the Government's stance yesterday.

I also call for a debate on Northern Ireland. This is a critical time and the Northern Ireland Assembly may collapse. It is ominous that in February 1914, Edward Carson, speaking in the House of Commons, stated:

I say this to my Nationalist fellow-countrymen [...], you have never tried to win over Ulster. You have never tried to understand her position.

At that stage, we were on the brink of Home Rule for the whole of Ireland. Let us not make the same mistake again. We must have a debate on Northern Ireland. I further suggest we ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Ms Theresa Villiers, if she would be willing to address the House.

That is a splendid idea.

I have sent correspondence to the Cathaoirleach regarding the fact that the record indicates that George Sigerson was the first Cathaoirleach of this House, if only for a few days, but he is not commemorated as such. Perhaps we might consider setting the record straight. Mr. Sigerson was a distinguished scientist and a promoter of the Celtic revival. Mr. John Grainger of UCC has communicated his thanks to the Seanad for commemorating the fact that UCC is the current holder of the Sigerson Cup. Mr. Sigerson appears to have been overlooked, but he played an important role in the very first Seanad in December 1922. I ask that he be commemorated in some way, as he appears to have been neglected in the intervening period.

I am always amused when Senator Darragh O'Brien speaks slightly tongue in cheek. I do not wish to revisit anything that happened yesterday, but we all know the only flaw in Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill related to the wise counsel of the Attorney General, which the Government wisely took on board. That said, and let us not argue, there is nothing preventing landlords and tenants taking into account market conditions. As a practising valuer, I have seen it happen and have engaged in it and I have seen rents held and rents move downwards. In the conditions we have faced in the past few years, commercial landlords were quite wise to try to hold on to tenants, as they did successfully in many cases, so let us be honest. As this is a matter of the legal interpretation of a constitutional issue, let us park it. The other House can deal with it now. That is all I have to say on the matter.

I raise the issue my colleague, Senator Paschal Mooney, and others have raised on a number of occasions, including last week, namely, the appalling downgrading of, and lack of concern for, rural Ireland and rural post offices, which was very obvious last night with the very large and peaceful demonstration outside the House. For some time, this side of the House has called for a Minister for rural affairs and that legislation should be rural-proofed.

I tabled a matter on the Adjournment about the closure of a number of banks in west Cork, in particular in Schull and Ballydehob, and the Minister of State the Department of Finance, Deputy Brian Hayes, felt that, in some instances, the banks were using economic restructuring as a scapegoat and that was not justified. As the banks in Schull and Ballydehob were closed, he indicated that the three post offices on that peninsula would be supported by extra financial business which the banks had failed to provide to the local community. As has happened all over the country, another bank was closed in Dromcollogher. One arm of government is saying social welfare must be paid through the banks rather than the post offices, but Government policy should be tweaked in such a way that rural post offices are supported.

Last night I met a postmistress from Ardgroom village, which is 110 miles from Cork city. She said farmers who were in receipt of farm assist payments had to travel 50 miles to the bank in Bantry to draw the money as it must be lodged in a bank, rather than a post office. This is a serious kick in the teeth for rural Ireland. As it is such a serious issue and as this is the first time I have spoken on it for some weeks, I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, or whoever is the appropriate Minister comes to the House today, even for one hour, to explain the direction in which we are going in regard to rural Ireland.

The banks have closed and the Garda stations are closing. If the rural post offices go, it will be an awful kick in the teeth. The policies of the Government are dictating that they will be closed. The banks bullied us and let us down with a bang and now the post offices, which are the only back-up people in rural Ireland have, are being ground to a halt because the policy of certain Ministers is that people should forget about rural post offices and use the banks. As we should forget the banks and support post offices, I am proposing an amendment to the Order of Business.

It is about time Fianna Fáil forgot the banks. That would be a good move.

I thank the Leader for arranging the debate next week with the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, on An Action Plan for Jobs. It is only right that in 2014, the Government place a major emphasis on job creation, the promotion of entrepreneurship and additional manufacturing.

I wish raise an issue a constituent raised with me this week and ask the Leader to arrange a discussion with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, on the operation of the jury system and how it impacts on people. I was contacted by a constituent who lives in Ballinasloe but who was called to the courthouse in Galway three times this week to be considered for jury duty. That involved a round trip of 80 miles three times this week. This person works part-time and her husband is on a two-day week. There is absolutely no consideration of out-of-pocket expenses in respect of travelling for jury service, or to be considered for jury service. That is wrong in this day and age, in particular when people face serious financial difficulties, and it needs to be reviewed. Will the Leader take this up with the Minister? The person in question was most anxious to do her civic duty and would certainly look forward to participating on a jury but she felt aggrieved that she would be significantly out of pocket and was not entitled to any reimbursement in respect of her participation in, or consideration for selection for, jury duty.

I raise two children's rights issues. I circulated a motion to my colleagues yesterday evening condemning the holding of child beauty pageants. I really hope we get cross-party support for this motion and I worded it in a way which I hope enables this. We need to unite in our opposition to these types of pageant held purely for financial gain. The message it sends to young people is reprehensible and we need to ensure we unite and say they have no place in Ireland. I thank Members who have already signed the motion and ask that all Members put their names to it.

I refer to Senators John Crown and Mark Daly's Bill on smoking in cars with children. Senator John Crown has been in touch with departmental officials and has been advised that the Government should have amendments by the first week of April. I have been in contact with the Minister's adviser and got a similar message. Will the Leader set a date for the first week of April, remembering that May will the second anniversary of commencement of this Bill in the House? The Government has had 20 months to draft amendments to quite a clear Bill, which everybody says they support. However, we do not seem to be able to get the amendments. I hope that in the first week of April, the Leader will allocate time for this Bill but I put him on notice that I expect the Government amendments to be tabled here. We will not accept it going to the Dáil with the Bill and tabling the amendments there. This House should ensure the Bill is completed here in order that it can sail through the Dáil and perhaps be agreed by it before Easter. I ask for a date for the taking of that Bill.

Yesterday was a superb day for Seanad Éireann. If anything vindicated its right to exist and its importance to democracy and political life in the country, yesterday was it. It was a superb triumph for our colleague, Senator Feargal Quinn, on which I compliment him. He has been extraordinarily industrious. If one looks at the number of Bills he has produced, I simply do not know how he does it. He must have a back-up team somewhere. This really does justice to the House and justifies its existence.

I disagree with my friend, the leader of the Fianna Fáil group, Senator Darragh O'Brien, and commend the Labour Party Members. It took guts to stay away. I do not think anybody in Fianna Fáil would have done any more than that or would have broken the Whip. This is the realism of politics and it allowed that Bill to go through.

Being a politician, I would like to lay a bit of a claim to the triumph because I both took and gave advice. I asked Senator Feargal Quinn if he wanted support for the Bill. He said: "Yes, but would you ever keep your mouth shut because we are afraid the Government will talk it out"; therefore, I went to the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality and came back for the vote.

I suggested to Senator Feargal Quinn that we call a walk-through vote. That is part of the way we run it, but it is the Senator's triumph, for which we should all unanimously commend him.

This also questions the Cathaoirleach's position under Standing Orders. I do not mean this in a personal way or as a criticism of the way he chairs proceedings. The Cathaoirleach is elected as an independent representative to be neutral and I am not sure if this nonsense that he or she must always go with the Government is in Standing Orders, but it is not in the Constitution. I acknowledge that it follows precedent and the Cathaoirleach was perfectly correct in what he did, but that is one of the reforms that needs to be introduced. Perhaps if we provide for a secret ballot for the Chair whereby he or she is instructed to vote on the issue and not to automatically to go with the Government, that would be an enhancement of our democracy.

I refer to the question of the Garda Commissioner. I do not call for heads but I am sorry to say he has to go. There is no doubt in my mind about this. The latest revelations involve claims of sexual harassment and this woman-----

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

Can we have a discussion on the role of the Garda Commissioner and the position of the Garda? When a woman makes a serious complaint of sexual harassment and is told that the last person who made a complaint is now washing cars in Navan, that is much worse than the time the late Brian Lenihan asked a garda whether he wanted a pint or a transfer.

The Senator is way over time.

There are grave questions about the Minister for Justice and Equality. He is an excellent reforming Minister, but he has character flaws which have led him into serious errors of judgment. There are questions about him too, but the Commissioner must go first.

I support Senator Ivana Bacik's call regarding the report of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality on domestic violence. I have invested time and energy in this area and anything that raises the profile of those who work in this area, the sufferers or the perpetrators is positive, but there is much work to be done. It is something we are only coming to terms with now. If the Leader could find a way to assist that, I would be grateful.

Unfortunately, Senator Denis O'Donovan has left the House, but I remind him regarding the post offices-----

The Senator cannot allude to Members who have left the Chamber.

Senator Darragh O'Brien mentioned the Labour Party Senators who were not present.

I was merely pointing out that he is not present to hear what I am about to say.

Just like Senator Darragh O'Brien.

Senators are not allowed to do that.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe to continue, without interruption.

On a point of order, it is normal in these circumstances that the Cathaoirleach asks the Member who does that to withdraw his or her comment.

But the Senator did not listen to the Chair.

What am I supposed to withdraw?

Members should not allude to colleagues who have left the Chamber.

The Senator is not supposed to make reference to an absent Member.

Senator Darragh O'Brien alluded to three Labour Party Senators not being present earlier.

That related to yesterday's votes.

The Senator said they were not present here today.

Four Labour Party Members were absent for votes yesterday.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe to continue, without interruption. Senator Darragh O'Brien should resume his seat.

Everybody is entitled to go to the lavatory.

The Senator is rowdy.

Does Senator Susan O'Keeffe have a question for the Leader?

I have asked a question. Can I not make a point?

The Senator has asked a question.

In fairness, most Members speak for three minutes.

The Senator had two minutes and is way over time.

Ba mhaith liom tacú leis an moladh atá déanta ag mo chomhghleacaí, an Seanadóir Sean D. Barrett, maidir le díospóireacht ar chúrsaí an Tuaiscirt.

We have called for a debate on Northern Ireland issues on many occasions. It would be timely as there are many issues of concern to us. It is obvious from some of the comments made yesterday on HGV regulation that there is a great deal of confusion, or else Members are getting misinformation from their SDLP or Unionist colleagues in the North regarding the HGV levy. It is a tax over which the Assembly has no control. I assure anybody who is concerned that Sinn Féin has lobbied long and hard to ensure the levy is not introduced. Our leadership is very much engaged on that issue. However, there is a role for both governments to play in these issues to ensure tax affairs are fully devolved to the Assembly in order that it would have full control over them.

It is welcome that we will have debates on employment. It is ironic that an announcement on jobs is being made today when we are being given information by newly qualified social workers that they will be employed on a graduate scheme, similar to what happened with newly qualified teachers and nurses. During the debates, it will be important to discuss the rates of pay that people are being asked to work for and the fact that newly qualified social workers are being recruited on less favourable conditions that their predecessors, which is a huge issue.

I raised a serious question that needs to be answered by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine on the Adjournment last night regarding the development of a fish farm on Inis Oirr and the meeting that he and the Taoiseach had with the chief executive officer of Marine Harvest, a company that could potentially win the licence for the project. The reply given by the Minister of State at the Department, Deputy Tom Hayes, was correct in that he said the licensing process must be independent, but the fact that the Minister and the Taoiseach have met one of the major stakeholders in the industry at a time when the licensing process is under way was inappropriate. I ask the Leader to use his office to ask the Minister to make a clear statement that the issue of the Inis Oirr fish farm was not discussed with the chief executive officer of Marine Harvest when they met recently and that he does not intend to discuss it when he attends the aquaculture conference in Norway in the next few weeks.

A social welfare contract worth €50 million has been awarded to An Post, which will secure its future and the jobs therein.

Did the Senator notice the postmasters' briefing?

I refer to the sale of the Irish Nationwide Building Society, INBS, loan book, which has been raised in the House on a number of occasions. I attended yesterday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform expecting to be reassured by the special liquidator and Department of Finance officials that those with INBS loans would be protected when the loan book is sold. All the bidders will not be subject to regulation by the Central Bank. I was shocked to discover that the commitment given that the code of conduct on mortgage arrears would be adhered to by prospective bidders would not form a legal condition of the contract for sale, which means it will not be binding. That is an unacceptable flaw. The second flaw is that even if that condition had been incorporated into the contract, there is nothing to protect mortgage holders from a further sale of the loan book, either in its entirely or as individual loans.

Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?

I have, but this is an important issue. Third, interest rates will be imposed by the lender. That is grand when we are dealing with Bank of Ireland, AIB and so on, but these mortgage holders will be dealing with organisations that are based outside the country and there will be no restriction on the interest rate they charge unless it is described as usury, and we all know what that means - more than 50% and up to 200% in some instances. This is a serious issue. The alternative is that the loan book should move to NAMA, and that is what should happen. There is no protection for INBS mortgage holders in what is proposed. Only 1% of them are on tracker mortgages, which means 99% of them have no protection.

I second Senator Denis O'Donovan's amendment.

I commend tourism interests for the latest tourism figures, which highlight an 8% increase in tourist numbers between November 2013 and January 2014. That is an astonishing achievement and I congratulate Fáilte Ireland, Tourism Ireland and everybody in the hospitality sector for upping their game. Will the Leader consider inviting the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport to the House to support the view that, as we are, I hope, on an upward curve in the context of visitor numbers, the hospitality sector and those who provide services for tourists should not engage in a rip-off republic syndrome? The reason I raise this issue is that I had occasion yesterday afternoon to visit the self-service restaurant of the National Library of Ireland, one of our cultural institutions.

I preface my remarks by saying I understand cultural institutions in the country are struggling financially, mainly as a result of cutbacks since the recession started in 2008. They must make themselves financially viable. However, I had occasion to look at the prices being charged for small slices of cake. This applies to several varieties of cake on sale in the self-service area, at the exploitative price of €3.25 each.

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Senator Paschal Mooney does not get out much.

Let them eat bread.

Those with a reader's card receive a discount.

Does Senator Paschal Mooney have a question for the Leader?

I have already asked the Leader to invite the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, to the House. This is because cultural institutions are a main source of tourism revenue. An extraordinary number of visitors, Irish and non-Irish, visit our cultural institutions and I strongly encourage them to continue to do so. I do not want to single out the National Library of Ireland. How many hospitality outlets are charging exorbitant prices that will not help the tourism industry? That is why I ask whether it is an opportunity for the Minister to encourage the Irish hospitality sector to ensure it does not exploit tourists coming into the country.

I congratulate my colleague, Senator Feargal Quinn, on what was a triumph for the Seanad yesterday evening. Sinn Féin colleagues were eager to remind the correspondent from The Irish Times of my absence from the Chamber. I was addressing a school in Bettystown and happy to be obliged by one of my Government colleagues with a pair, which is more than my Sinn Féin colleagues managed to do when I tabled a motion on the need to put high voltage lines underground.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business that we take No. 8 before No. 1, Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) (Amendment) Bill 2014 - First Stage. The Bill provides for a requirement that high voltage electricity transmission cables be placed underground where physically possible and would make certain other changes. I ask if the Leader can make time for a debate in early course. We have not had enough debate in the Chamber on issues relating to pylons, on our energy strategy and on the concerns of tens of thousands of people about massive turbines being erected in many parts of the country with a view to supplying cheap energy to Britain but without the public interest first and foremost.

I agree with Senator Ivana Bacik on the European Parliament recommendation on the need to criminalise purchasers of sexual services in the Honeyball report. When I first heard about the report I thought it referred to a character in a James Bond movie, but it appears to be a substantial proposal. I compliment Senators Ivana Bacik and Katherine Zappone on their work on the issue at the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality. I took the lead in the previous Seanad by introducing amendments and Private Members' motions calling for legislation to bring us in line with the Nordic policy of criminalising the user. It is an important development and we should debate it in early course.

The point I want to raise was well articulated by Senator Aideen Hayden. Yesterday, I listened to the debate on the IBRC loan book at the committee. It is appalling that we are approving a situation where foreign private equity funds can target the purchase of the loans with no safeguards and we are depending on their goodwill in treating borrowers sympathetically. It is unacceptable for any Government to be in that position. The loan book will go to the funds who target returns on investment of 20% to 30%. Usually, this is in a high risk area. I disagree fundamentally with the Minister for Finance who claims it is not practical to make these loans saleable to the borrowers at the discounted rate. That is exactly what we should do. For people trying to hold onto their own houses, it is a given that it should happen. I am concerned about foreign funds buying property at the bottom of the market. If the economy recovers in the coming decade, all of the money will be sent abroad and we will not have the indigenous investors and the capital required to reconstruct our economy. There is no thought, and deficiencies in the Department of Finance and at political level must be addressed.

I said at the time that the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, politicised the Garda Commissioner by using politically sensitive information against Mick Wallace, who is a constituency colleague-----

It is Deputy Mick Wallace.

Deputy Mick Wallace outlined exactly what must have happened and, reluctantly, I said at the time that the Commissioner must look at his position. The Minister and the Commissioner must now go. I appeal to the members of the Labour Party who would have been shouting from the rafters for far less fundamental breaches when in opposition. They should not bend the knee because it involves a Minister who goes with their social agenda.

Two years ago, in conjunction with Senators Mark Daly and Jillian van Turnhout, I proposed legislation to ban smoking in cars where children were present. The Bill has passed a number of stages and we should be given a definite date for the debate on Report Stage. I received correspondence from one of the officials involved telling us that the various Departments' Report Stage amendments would be ready by the first week in April. The official asked us not to press for any debate earlier than this. I acknowledge the co-operation of the Leader in the past few weeks, when he indicated he would make time available. In January 2013 we were given a similar assurance that the amendments would be ready by the end of January 2013, 13 months ago. I respectfully ask the Leader to designate a specific day for the debate. It should be 2 April, which provides an opportunity for the promised amendments to be delivered. I would be grateful if the Leader could designate a time on that day for the debate on Report Stage.

I join Senator Sean D. Barrett in a request for a debate on Northern Ireland as a matter of urgency. I request the Leader to invite the Taoiseach to address the House on a serious issue. I support my colleague, Senator Denis O'Donovan, in his request that the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, attend the House to discuss the future of rural post offices. The issue has been raised in the past fefw weeks. While I appreciate the replies to the Leader and the Deputy Leader, it is a serious situation and the Minister must come and outline Government plans to sustain post offices, particularly in rural Ireland. There should be positive discrimination towards rural Ireland in respect of post offices and other services, including representation at local and national political levels. The Labour Party policy on local government involves taking away representation from rural Ireland and moving it to the heavily populated areas of the east coast. Will the Labour Party pursue this policy in respect of post offices?

On a point of order, to correct Senator Diarmuid Wilson, he is talking about Government policy rather than any particular party policy. He is also misrepresenting Government policy. As he knows, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, has provided a comprehensive report-----

May I make a point of order?

Invariably, Senator Ivana Bacik gets up under a pretence of making a point of order.

The Senator is doing exactly the same thing.

It is a point of order.

I call Senator Diarmuid Wilson, without interruption.

I thank the Deputy Leader for confirming that it is not only Labour Party policy but Fine Gael policy for rural Ireland to be discriminated against with regard to representation at local government level. I have a question for the Leader and perhaps the Deputy Leader could give her opinion on it. Is it the policy of the Government to close rural Ireland altogether? Is that the policy? I would be grateful for an answer. I congratulate Senator Feargal Quinn on his excellent Bill, as it shows what this House can do when we put our minds to it. I also commend my colleague, Senator Mary White.

I am sure the Senator is under some misapprehension regarding the Government's position on rural Ireland. I remind the Senator that under his party in government, 197 post offices were closed. That was the last Fianna Fáil Government.

Is there a question for the Leader?

Did Senator John Gilroy meet the postmasters?

I certainly did.

Senator John Gilroy to continue, without interruption.

It is an important point.

I explained to them that despite Fianna Fáil's scaremongering on the issue, the Government has no intention whatever of undermining the very efficient network. The Government recently invested €50 million in a contract for the post office relating to the Department of Social Protection, which is to be welcomed. One might half-expect it from Sinn Féin but it is remarkable that Fianna Fáil is competing with Sinn Féin in scaremongering in rural Ireland.

I did not say anything about post offices this morning.

It is only a matter of time.

The Senators should speak through the Chair. Is there a question for the Leader?

Senator John Gilroy is all over the shop.

It is only a matter of time before there will be negativity flowing from both Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin, as the local elections are coming up.

That is very negative.

They are codding people on this issue and scaremongering. Senator Diarmuid Wilson has failed to understand that democracy is about representing people and not particular areas, fields or mountains.

The Senator could remind the Tánaiste of that.

If the population of Ireland has become more urbanised in recent years, I suggest it would be good to have those people living in urban Ireland equally represented.

Forget about people.

We can ask them to turn off the lights when they emigrate.

If Fianna Fáil has a problem representing people, as opposed to codding them-----

The Senator does not seem to have a question.

-----perhaps those in the party might reflect on this.

I asked the Senator if he had a question. He is now over time.

I second Senator Rónán Mullen's proposal that No. 8 be taken before No. 1 today. I ask the Leader to consider having a debate involving the relevant Minister on the licensing of livestock ships. A livestock ship licensed by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine last year was recently impounded in Cornwall. Although the licence was issued by the Department, on a return trip to Germany the ship was impounded because the British found it lacking in normal standards of safety. The British agency examined the fire detection and crew emergency systems and crew accommodation and it noted an absence of hot water. Compassion in World Farming has argued that the system of licensing ships carrying livestock is lacking. I did not know anything about this until recently but it appears to be an issue deserving attention. Perhaps we might have a debate on it in the House.

Senator Darragh O'Brien asked about the status of Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill. It has been passed by Seanad Éireann and the other House will decide where and when it will proceed.

The Government accepted the Parental Leave Bill 2013, about which, as the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, outlined, it has many reservations. Nevertheless, it was prepared to accept it on Committee Stage and will have many amendments to be introduced on Report Stage.

I will certainly ask the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Alex White, to come before us to address the matter of GP contracts and the treatment of children under the age of six years. I hope he will be able to come to the Seanad in the next few weeks.

Senator Ivana Bacik called for debates on a number of reports, including one from the European Parliament and another from the justice committee on prostitution. I do not know if the report on domestic violence has been published-----

-----but when it is, we will arrange to have a debate on it in the House. I also note the Senator's points on the situation in Ukraine and the request for a debate on the matter.

Senators Sean D. Barrett and Diarmuid Wilson called for a debate on Northern Ireland. I will request the Taoiseach to come here for it.

Senator Paul Coghlan commented on Senator Feargal Quinn's Bill, while Senators Denis O'Donovan and Diarmuid Wilson spoke about post offices and rural Ireland. As I stated yesterday and the day before, the Minister in question attended the Seanad to take an Adjournment matter and presented a very comprehensive report on the issue. It is not the intention of the Government to close post offices. When I first mentioned that the Government did not intend to close post offices, I was heckled from the other side. Seventeen post offices were closed in the past three years, but 197 were closed in the previous three years under the previous Administration. The figures speak for themselves in that regard.

Senator Michael Mullins spoke about expenses for persons on jury duty. We will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Justice and Equality. Perhaps the Senator might consider raising it on the Adjournment.

I am sure we will have a very good discussion next week on the Private Members' motion to be brought forward by Senator Jillian van Turnhout.

Senators Jillian van Turnhout and John Crown commented on the Bill dealing with smoking in cars where children were present. There are a number of items of correspondence on the matter from the relevant Department to both Senators. It has been indicated that the Bill will be taken in early April. I intend to include it in the agenda for 2 April. It is appalling that there has been such a delay in taking the Bill, but I am unsure who or what held it up. However, I assure the Senators that it will be on the agenda on 2 April.

I note Senator David Norris's comments about the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, and the Garda Commissioner. Senator Walsh had similar comments to make, but I do not share that opinion.

Senator Susan O'Keeffe spoke about domestic violence, an issue also raised by Senator Ivana Bacik. We will have a debate on the matter when the report is complete.

Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh clarified Sinn Féin's position on the heavy goods vehicle levy. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney, gave a clear and comprehensive response when the matter was raised on the Adjournment last evening.

Senators Aideen Hayden and Jim Walsh spoke about the Irish Nationwide Building Society and Irish Bank Resolution Corporation mortgage books. The Minister for Finance will be in the House next week when I am sure the opportunity will be taken to mention these matters.

Senator Paschal Mooney also spoke about and welcomed the significant increase in tourist numbers. It should be welcomed by all of us. I note the Senator's points on the need for the industry to monitor prices in order that we do not see significant increases. However, I would have thought a price of €3.25 for a piece of cake was fairly reasonable in this day and age.

Senator Rónán Mullen proposed an amendment to the Order of Business. While it is customary for the matter to be raised with the Leader prior to the commencement of proceedings, I will, however, accede to his request that No. 8, Planning and Development (Strategic Infrastructure) (Amendment) Bill 2014 - First Stage, be taken before No. 1.

No discourtesy was intended.

I have mentioned Senator Diarmuid Wilson's contribution and note his comments about rural Ireland. I also note Senator John Gilroy's comments in that regard.

Senator Feargal Quinn mentioned the licensing of livestock ships. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney.

Senator Denis O'Donovan has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That, in view of the threatened closure of post offices, a one hour debate on the need to protect the economy of rural Ireland be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 14; Níl, 25.

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Crown, John.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Norris, David.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Walsh, Jim.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Mulcahy, Tony.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Naughton, Hildegarde.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Keeffe, Susan.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden.
Amendment declared lost.

Senator Rónán Mullen has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 8 be taken before No. 1." The Leader has indicated that he wishes to accept the amendment. Is the amendment agreed to? Agreed.

Question put: "That the Order of Business, as amended, be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 23; Níl, 15.

  • Bacik, Ivana.
  • Brennan, Terry.
  • Burke, Colm.
  • Coghlan, Eamonn.
  • Coghlan, Paul.
  • Comiskey, Michael.
  • Cummins, Maurice.
  • D'Arcy, Jim.
  • Gilroy, John.
  • Hayden, Aideen.
  • Henry, Imelda.
  • Higgins, Lorraine.
  • Keane, Cáit.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Moloney, Marie.
  • Mulcahy, Tony.
  • Mullins, Michael.
  • Naughton, Hildegarde.
  • Noone, Catherine.
  • O'Neill, Pat.
  • Sheahan, Tom.
  • van Turnhout, Jillian.
  • Whelan, John.

Níl

  • Barrett, Sean D.
  • Crown, John.
  • Daly, Mark.
  • MacSharry, Marc.
  • Mooney, Paschal.
  • Mullen, Rónán.
  • Norris, David.
  • Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
  • O'Brien, Darragh.
  • O'Donovan, Denis.
  • O'Sullivan, Ned.
  • Power, Averil.
  • Quinn, Feargal.
  • Walsh, Jim.
  • Wilson, Diarmuid.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden; Níl, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson.
Question declared carried.
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