The Order of Business is No. 1, State Airports (Shannon Group) Bill 2014 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 3.45 p.m. and conclude not later than 5.30 p.m., and No. 2, Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Bill 2013 – Second Stage, to be taken at 5.30 p.m.
Order of Business
On a point of clarification, is the debate on the State Airports (Shannon Group) Bill 2014 to adjourn or conclude?
It is to conclude at 5.30 p.m.
I am surprised that the State Airports (Shannon Group) Bill 2014 will conclude at 5.30 p.m. As a number of very important amendments have been tabled, I am surprised it is concluding at that time. If we are coming back-----
May I make a correction? We will adjourn the debate on the Bill at 5.30 p.m. and come back to it if the debate has not concluded.
I thank the Leader for that information.
I commend all those who stood in the local and European elections last week and those who were elected and commiserate with those who were not successful. It is important that people of all ages, from all backgrounds, all parties and none participate in the democratic process. In particular, I wish our colleagues from all groups in this House who are still waiting for seats to be filled in the European Parliament every success. As an Oireachtas we must have a serious think about the establishment of a permanent electoral commission. That we are the last country in Europe that is still counting votes and trying to fill seats in the European Parliament, which is a very important parliament, shows the system is not fit for purpose. Far be it from me to speak about electronic voting - I am not going there-----
I advise the Senator not to go there.
I will not. What I will say is that we need the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan, to come to the House, before he goes to the European Commission, to discuss whether the Seanad can do a job in this regard. We need to move forward with electoral reform. I have often asked for a permanent electoral commission. I finished at a count in one of the electoral wards in Dublin this morning after 76 hours. That is not acceptable. I am not casting any aspersions on the staff there but the process is wrong and we have to look at how we can streamline it.
In the local and European elections, many issues played out. Yesterday, there was a Government mid-term election but I will not speak about certain successes or otherwise of parties or whatever but I will speak about the discretionary medical card issue. Some 55,000 medical cards plus have been removed from people who need them, the sick, the elderly and the young. The issue has been raised time and again here not just by me, but by many colleagues on the Opposition and Government benches. I was surprised at the weekend that certain Ministers appeared to be surprised that this was an issue. My party and its leader, Deputy Micheál Martin, and our health spokesperson, Deputy Billy Kelleher, have been raising the issue and specific cases for two years. I am aware the Leader has endeavoured to have a debate in this House with the Minister for Health. I ask the Leader to ask him again to come to the House. The Taoiseach has indicated there will be a review. Is that a review of a review? What are we going to do? They are all mixed messages. While this is happening, people with terminal illnesses and long-term illnesses and people with special needs and disabilities are losing medical cards. He really needs to come to the House to tell us what he is doing.
I will conclude on one particular issue, that of the multiple sclerosis drug, Fampyra, which I am glad received some public prominence from RTE last week. I raised the issue in the House four months ago. This is a trial drug for multiple sclerosis patients about which people in my area have written to me. It allows them get their mobility back and to go back to work. The HSE and the Department of Health, to which I have written on numerous occasions, continue to say they will not approve it after July for the purposes of the drugs payment scheme. I have sent correspondence to the Department of Health and the HSE with specific cases of people who have been able to go back to work. Do we want these people to be in hospital? This drug costs €240 per month for those patients' independence and quality of life. The Department of Health and the HSE continue to state the HSE assessment process intends to arrive at a decision on the new funding of new medicines that is clinically appropriate, fair and consistent and sustainable.
In these circumstances, why has the HSE not approved the reimbursements of fampridine under the GMS or other community drug schemes? It is not right and it should do so. I ask the Leader to use his good office to raise the matter with the Minister again. I have covered the point, but I cannot understand that decision.
I join Senator Darragh O'Brien in commending all of those who stood as candidates in the local and European elections and congratulate all of those candidates who were successful and commiserate with all of those who were defeated. I agree with him that the way in which the counts have played out has shown again the need for a review of the system of counting votes. I agree also about the need for an electoral commission. I was struck by something Mr. John Bowman said late on one of the nights on RTE about the visible way in which counts are dealt with here and in which transfers are made, and that people see how their votes are going in the PR system. I agree that is a valuable part of the democratic process.
Senator Darragh O'Brien mentioned the length of some of the European counts. In a Dún Laoghaire ward, for example, a count has been adjourned until tomorrow. When one is looking at counts going into a fourth day for some candidates, one is talking about Wednesday or Thursday before people know. We saw candidates in my area being elected at 3.30 a.m. and 4 a.m. That is not an appropriate way to do business. Those who were involved in the counting worked extremely hard, but it is not reasonable to expect people to work under those conditions or to expect candidates to be hanging on for such long hours in count centres. We need to look again, without going to electronic voting, at how we can make our counting more efficient.
I will comment a little further on my party's result. The Labour Party received a clear message from the electorate, as we saw our vote "collapsing" - there is no other word for it. I wish to pay tribute to my former party leader, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, who, as everyone will be aware, resigned yesterday with great dignity and took responsibility for the poor result of the party and the poor showing. People from all sides were respectful of that decision in the commentary since then. We are now in a contest for the leadership in the Labour Party and that will play out. It is certainly also time-----
Is the Senator standing?
Under party rules, Senators are not eligible.
The Senator would make a great leader.
It is time also for renewal of party policy and for a review of our performance more generally, not merely for a change of leadership. That is also something that is universally acknowledged.
It is important the business of government goes on and that we do not see anyone feeling that this is a time that the Government is in any way a lame duck as a result of this. We are going to continue with the business of government. I am glad we are taking the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence and DNA Database System) Bill 2013 this evening. It is an important Bill which has been a long time in preparation. We are also taking the Companies Bill 2012 next week. The latter is a very important reforming Bill that has been a long time in preparation. It is important that we would progress all of those measures. Once we have a new leader in place within the Labour Party, it is also important that we would have a debate in this House on renewal of the programme for Government, on reviewing the programme for Government and the great progress that has been made on many of the commitments in that, but also on what needs to be done. An electoral commission is one of the matters that is in there. We need also to look at matters such as discretionary medical cards. I agree that this was the huge issue on the doorstep with people fearful of the situation, even if they had not seen a removal of the card after review. The way that has been dealt with has been very problematic. If possible, we need to hold that overarching debate during the month of July.
Reports in the media in the past couple of weeks have brought to our consciousness the fate of many families with young children that are facing homelessness. These families, some with working parents and some with parents who are looking for employment, are bravely standing up to the stereotypes about the homeless. Stereotypes rarely serve any positive purpose and the negative stereotypes have been leading us to a false belief of homelessness as being self-inflicted and, therefore, somehow deserved. Adequate housing is a human right vital to human dignity, security and well-being. No-one deserves to be homeless, least of all a child. We should remember that homelessness is not an issue isolated from the overall economic situation in Ireland due to the banking debt crisis and austerity measures. Our society has been polarised even further. Is not this a core part of the message of the people when they exercised their vote on Friday last? The level of income inequality in Ireland is one of the highest in Europe and the situation of low-income families, those families which depend on social welfare and middle-class families in negative equity has been untenable as they are being pushed into poverty and consequent homelessness.
The Government has published its implementation plan on the State's response to homelessness, which I welcome. I reviewed it thoroughly in consultation with TASC and many of its incentives are good. Moreover, I understand the Minister updated the Cabinet today on these issues. However, the Government strategy does not address adequately one core issue at the heart of the crisis, namely, the unaffordable private rental market. The relative lack of residential housing available for renting is driving up rents and forcing close to 100,000 households onto social housing waiting lists, as they are unable or are struggling to stay in private-rented accommodation. One response is that the Government is committing more funds for rent supplement but this is bound to drive rents even higher and the main beneficiary of this investment will be the private landlords. Consequently, I do not believe this is the best use of our resources. While there is an urgent need to construct social housing, the private-rented housing market should not be allowed to become out of reach for Irish families. A regulated accessible private-rented market would be the best partner to have in the endeavour to facilitate adequate housing for all. Hence, I ask the Leader to ask the Minister of State with special responsibility for housing and planning to establish an expert task force to outline a national strategy to develop the market for residential leasing and renting, as well as to strengthen tenants' rights as a sustainable housing strategy and a key aspect of solving the homelessness problem. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, to come to the House to consider this proposal.
I echo the sentiments of the previous Senators on those who contested the election and extend every good wish to the successful and unsuccessful candidates, who perform a major function in our democracy.
I welcome the Leader's statement that the debate on the State Airports (Shannon Group) Bill 2014 will be adjourned and not completed. A new book was published just today on low-cost airlines and their relationship with airports. The report from the Commission for Aviation Regulation on terminal 2 in Dublin Airport, the cost overruns and their implications for the charges is due to be published on Thursday and the regulator will step down on Friday. Consequently, a lot of events associated with aviation are happening and I am glad the debate will be extended to facilitate this.
In addition, I thank personally and presumably on behalf of the House the Tánaiste who stepped down yesterday. By coincidence, I was watching the presentation of the results on BBC Northern Ireland when Mr. Mike Nesbitt, the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party, paid a full tribute to the Tánaiste and his work on Anglo-Irish relations. While Members sometimes were critical of him for not being in the country, that was his portfolio, namely, foreign affairs. Mr. Nesbitt said his address to the British-Irish Association in Cambridge last September was most inspiring and stimulating. The Tánaiste invited Mr. Nesbitt and Ulster Unionists to attend in Dublin when the centenary of the Easter 1916 Rising was being commemorated and Mr. Nesbitt said on that programme that he valued that invitation immensely. Moreover, he stated that in the same spirit, he would extend an invitation to President Higgins to visit Stormont. I believe the Tánaiste's record in Anglo-Irish relations was paid a very warm tribute on that occasion by the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party. I add to this the Tánaiste's courtesy to this House and when Members met him around the corridors of Leinster House and so on. One wishes the Tánaiste well in his future career.
I also echo the remarks of Senator Darragh O'Brien on the setting up of an electoral commission, as well as Senator Ivana Bacik's comments. As somebody who sat through a count from Saturday night until 7 a.m. on Sunday and who is returning tomorrow morning to a count in Dún Laoghaire, it is not acceptable either to those who work on these counts or to the candidates themselves. The individual councillor concerned, Jane Dillon Byrne, has been a councillor for 40 years and it is outrageous to find oneself in an electoral system in which one is subjected to that type of endurance test.
I also add my voice to the other voices that have paid tribute to the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore. It is important to remember that he has been the leader of the Labour Party for seven years, has led the Labour Party to its best ever electoral performance and to the election of President Higgins who has done the country nothing but proud.
History will be very kind to Deputy Eamon Gilmore. His key role, particularly in our very successful EU Presidency at a time when our reputation was, not to put too fine a point on it, in the toilet is something that will always be remembered. I also believe that he acted with dignity in stepping down when he did and that he did not subject this country to weeks and months of uncertainty. As a Labour Party Senator and the party Whip in this House, I thank him for that dignity and consideration he paid to the members of the Labour Party and the people.
I thank Senator Katherine Zappone for her intervention in regard to housing. It is a matter of urgency that we have a more fulsome debate on the Construction 2020 programme. There is a good deal that needs to be said regarding the housing crisis here. In regard to rent supplement, I have a letter from a lady whose rent has been increased to €1,300 and she is in receipt of €880. She has an autistic child and another child with special needs. We have reached a point where it is imperative that we deal with the whole issue of rent supplement and, as many Members will know, I have personally called on a number of occasions for the introduction of legislation to control rents. I echo Senator Katherine Zappone's call for the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, to come into the House in order that we can have a more thorough debate on this matter. We will be speaking to the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, tomorrow on the rent supplement issue.
I, too, pay tribute to all those people who stood for election. It always gives us pause for thought when we see so many good councillors from different parties lose their seats, sometimes through no fault of their own, and on this occasion it seemed the tide was out for the Government parties. We on this side of the House are aware of how quickly the tide can go out at certain times. I pay tribute to all those who fought a brave fight but unfortunately did not make it and to congratulate those who did make it. In the case of our party, particularly at local authority level, we have made some significant gains and that in itself is pleasing to somebody like myself who has run the Seanad trail.
I endorse what our leader in the House, Senator Darragh O'Brien, said on the medical card issue. I would also like to have a debate on that issue in the House as soon as is practicable and if one is not forthcoming I will move an amendment to the Order of Business not today but early next week to ensure we have a debate on it. It is mind-boggling that with regard to a number of medical card applications I have pursued for people who have a genuine reason for having one, there has been a demand for information such as home insurance details. I do not know what that has information has to do with an application for a medical card. I have come across three or four such demands. Also more information has been sought in respect of people in receipt of a disability allowance who have been means-tested. I am also surprised by the number of documents that have been submitted that have been lost or mislaid. People in receipt of farm assist who have been means-tested in the past 12 months, and whom the Department of Social Protection has acknowledged are entitled to farm assist, or people who are long-term unemployed, are being scrutinised again by the medical card central office. The Minister and his Government colleagues do not seem to realise the dreadful pedantic approach that is being taken in this respect. The Department was described by somebody previously as being in Angola and the approach to dealing with medical cards is so unprofessional and incoherent that those working in this area need to be given a kick where it would hurt.
Housing is a major problem not only in Dublin but nationally. In my county and home place of west Cork there is a great demand for housing and the number of people on housing lists has been the highest in the past decade. It is bewildering to think that this should be the case when there seems to be a huge surplus of houses throughout the country and that a great number of houses are now under the control NAMA. There might be a problem in terms of the number of houses and apartments in Dublin but somebody should rethink a national strategy to get people into houses that are currently idle and that cannot be sold.
I welcome a former Cathaoirleach of the House, former Senator Charlie McDonald, who is in the Visitors Gallery.
I join colleagues in congratulating all those who put their names on the ballot paper over the weekend and commiserate with very many fine councillors who lost their seats.
I pay tribute to the outstanding work they have done in their communities. I hope that many of them will return to public life. I congratulate our four colleagues in the Seanad who contested the European elections, namely, Senators Deirdre Clune, Thomas Byrne, Lorraine Higgins and Rónán Mullen. All of them performed admirably. It was a worrying development to hear Senator Lorraine Higgins speak on radio this morning about the awful personal abuse she received on social media during the course of her campaign. This is a matter we need to discuss in future.
I join my colleagues in thanking the Tánaiste for his outstanding contribution to rebuilding our country and restoring our reputation abroad. I have known the Tánaiste since our secondary school days in Garbally College in Ballinasloe. He is a man of great integrity and ability, and he put the country first. Every person in this country owes him a debt of gratitude. History will be kind to him.
I join the calls for a debate on the medical card situation. Now that the people have spoken, they have given a wake-up call to the Government. The people are impatient with the pace of recovery and, while they recognise that the country was in an appalling state when this Government took over, we need to redouble our efforts to grow the economy. I welcome that significant numbers of additional jobs were announced today for Galway and Athlone by SAP and Ericssons. The Government has been seen to be somewhat uncaring on the issue of medical cards. Some of the questions that people are being asked defy logic. We need to examine this entire area. I question the quality of the management team running the medical card system. Is it fit for purpose? I suspect it would not survive in private enterprise. I urge the Leader to organise a debate on the medical card system at the earliest opportunity because some of the decisions taken in recent times are not right.
I commend all those who stood for Parliament. What happens within the Labour Party and other parties in terms of changes in Ministries and elsewhere is not my call and I am not here to criticise. However, Ministers will in future have to take heed of what Senators are saying, particularly some of the Independent Senators who are fortunate enough not to be required to display abject loyalty, whether morally, intellectually, emotionally or politically, when it comes to decisions.
The Senator is not bad at it.
I know that one is either on a team or not on a team, and I completely agree with the Taoiseach in that regard. However, Ministers have come into this House and ignored warnings from Senators across all parties, Government and elsewhere. They have ignored disagreement expressed by Senators, as well as amendments, judgments and suggestions from Senators. Everybody in the House speaks about the one or two amendments we got through but what about the hundreds or thousands of amendments that were ignored? I have a feeling that since the Seanad was given a reform agenda by the Irish people we have been ignored even more.
I offer some examples of how we have been ignored across all parties. The respite grant for carers should never have been cut. The cuts to the funeral grant and the telephone grant should never have happened. The cutting of community workers' portfolios should not have happened. Upward-only rent reviews should never have happened. There has been a lack of attention to means testing as opposed to universality across medicine, education, health and social welfare. The Seanad has a great deal to offer across all parties and none. I would go so far as to suggest to the Government that some Senators should be considered as junior Ministers. I say this from the perspective of a politically independent Member.
I wish to make the case that we should have a special session in this House and invite Garda Wilson and Sergeant McCabe to address us. These are two men-----
That is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. The Senator's grouping is represented on the committee where the matter can be raised.
I will do so. It is not plausible to me that the list of complaints and irregularities which were brought to bear by these two men over a long period of years were not known to many other people. A very limited number of people have had responsibility apportioned to them and have either taken their own course of action or have had it forced upon them, but the culture within the public service indicates to me that what happened to these men and the reaction which occurred when they brought serious matters to light, was not an isolated occurrence. This is the way our public service works routinely: I have seen it in the health service; I have seen it in the enforcement arms of the health service; I have seen it in State-funded institutions; I have seen it when health professionals have pointed out problems; and I have seen administrators try to blacken the name of individuals who have pointed out real and genuine discrepancies. I am afraid that the fact that it is so widespread and so widely tolerated, speaks to something within our national culture. I think we have a tendency to form tribal divisions and that this is the only possible explanation one could have when after the last elections, two broadly similar political parties with broadly similar sets of policies and a third party which had very different policies, rearranged themselves into a coalition where one of the major parties and one of the other parties that had the different perspective came together, the reason being that we tend to form clubs, cliques or tribes. Anyone who breaks ranks will be criticised. Anyone informing on problems will be considered to be a tout or an informer. This is what has happened. We need to give great air play to what these two men did. There is much that we could learn and there is much that the public service could learn and there is much that our broader society could learn about the importance of telling the truth, even if it is inconvenient for those who identify themselves as being our allies.
I join all colleagues in paying tribute to all those who stood before the electorate in the by-elections, the European elections and the local elections.
Today I am glad to note from the NAMA annual report that it anticipates completing its work on behalf of the taxpayers prior to the envisaged date in 2020. In addition to repaying debt, I believe it is using its cash reserves prudently to add further value to its portfolio. This is providing benefits for the wider economy which are very welcome. NAMA has been in part responsible for a resurgence of activity in the Irish property market and it has made assets available in line with the market's absorption capacity and it is now in a position to accelerate asset disposals - thanks be to God - because of the improvements, as well as repaying senior bonds, which is most important and is in the taxpayers' interests. As we have noted recently, it has managed to dispose of a number of very fine hotels, the attached loans of which had been on its books. I wish to acknowledge the marked pick-up in all markets, thanks be to God. Long may that work continue in the best interests of taxpayers.
Whatever about the Government being seen as a lame duck Government, there is no doubt that the Government's goose has been well and truly cooked by the electorate and that the Government is on borrowed time. In recent months the State has lost the Garda Commissioner, the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Tánaiste and the Government parties have lost MEPs and council seats up and down the State. In my view the Government parties have been given a very clear message by the electorate who are sick and tired of the unfairness of many of the policy choices which have been made by the Government.
One of these policies relates to the provision of medical cards. It is not so long ago that Senators on this side of the House, including Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and some Independent Members, pointed to the cut in funding for medical card provision contained in the budget. Fine Gael and Labour Party Members voted for that cut. For Senator Michael Mullins and others in the Fine Gael Party to seek now to place responsibility for the current fiasco on the shoulders of the management and staff of the medical card processing unit, who are, after all, overseeing Government policy, is absolutely outrageous and despicable. Colleagues opposite should take responsibility for their own actions. They and their party voted for these cuts and are therefore responsible for carers, people with disabilities and sick people losing their medical cards. They should man up and, instead of blaming staff, take responsibility themselves.
I am in agreement with Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell regarding all of the Government failures she listed. However, the Senator has a brass neck to claim to be independent given that she has stuck with Fine Gael through thick and thin in this House.
The Senator Cshould examine my voting record. I have exercised independence in this House.
Senator David Cullinane should be allowed to speak without interruption.
When it came to crucial votes in this House-----
I will not be lectured to by Sinn Féin. I was making a general point about the importance of listening to voices in the Seanad.
The Senator is not immune to criticism.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
If Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell wants to be taken seriously as an Independent Senator, she should act independently. She has not done so up to now.
I have acted independently since I first came through the door of this Chamber.
The Senator should not come in here and display that type of hypocrisy.
If we want to see hypocrisy, all we have to do is ring Sinn Féin.
The reality is that a change of leadership in the Labour Party is not enough. We need a change of Government and a change of policies.
The Senator is way over time.
Will the Leader organise a debate on the programme for Government? All Members, on both sides of the House, must have an opportunity to have their say on what the programme for Government entails and what it should contain. We need to take on board what the electorate has said in these elections.
I take the opportunity to pay tribute to the Tánaiste, whom I have always found to be a gentleman. He has always shown integrity, particularly in how he has conducted himself in recent days. I join colleagues in commending everybody who put their names forward for the European and local elections and the by-elections. I pay tribute, in particular, to our colleague, Senator Deirdre Clune, who is very much in the running for the fourth European seat in the South constituency. Contrary to the view put forward by Senator David Cullinane, my party looks likely to retain its four seats, despite the reduction in Ireland's quota.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader on the Order of Business?
It is difficult to listen to Senator David Cullinane claim that Independent Members such as Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell have not been independent in this House. On the contrary, I would argue that she has proved her independence on many occasions. To credit Sinn Féin with independent thought, however, is a bit of a stretch.
With regard to the medical card issue, we must face up to the fact that it has been handled very poorly. I agree that the buck stops with the Minister.
The Senator should tell him that.
The real problem, however, is that the system is flawed and requires us now to take stock. In fact, there was an acknowledgement before the elections that the system is not working well. It is an issue that requires a great deal of careful attention in the coming weeks. We as a Government must show that we care for and have empathy with people who are vulnerable.
The comments made regarding my friend and colleague, Senator Lorraine Higgins, are outrageous. Unfortunately, we have all become too used to that type of negative commentary. When I had a harmless enough article about sugar published in a newspaper some time ago - I realise that I probably bore everybody by going on about the health effects of alcohol and sugar - I was subjected to a large number of very negative personal comments. I do not know why I read them. There is a growing view that it is unacceptable for people sitting at home in their armchairs to conduct themselves in this way on social media.
As Senator Michael Mullins suggested, it is something we should debate in this House in the near future. We have had some discussions on it before but it is something we should keep on the agenda.
I support Senator Katherine Zappone's request for an urgent debate on the housing crisis and on the possible Government response to same. I do not think it required an election campaign for all of us to accept there is a housing crisis, but the Government's response will be key.
We will require a housing solution and not a developer solution. The outgoing Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, made an interesting comment last week, which I would like fleshed out further, that he would view the Government's proposal as one which would be supportive of builders and not developers. We must concentrate on that particular phrase because, tragically for the country, our construction policy in the past two decades has not been people-led, Government-led or homeless-led but has been developer-led. A small clique of people have forced decisions on Governments, or have induced Governments to take certain housing policy decisions, which have visited chaos and rack and ruin on this nation. We must ensure Construction 2020 or, one hopes, a variation of it will come into being to look after the genuine housing needs of the people of this country, the homeless and young people who cannot find houses, and not be a plan to suit the so-called construction industry. I hope the debate requested by Senator Katherine Zappone and supported by Senator Aideen Hayden, as is often the case, will take place and that it will be an open debate where Senators are free to express their views on how housing policy is designed in this country.
On the local election issue, I pay tribute to all the winners and commiserate with all the losers. We must also reflect on the fact that almost half of the people did not vote, which is probably the biggest political statement of all. We are all political anoraks in this House but I watched much of the television coverage and listened to much of the radio coverage and what struck me was that the various party spokespersons spoke about the elections in terms of what they meant for the parties. They made no reference to what the elections meant to the people and what the people actually said. It should not be about whether one party is up or another party is down and what it means for the future plans of political parties or Governments. We must reflect on the message from people and what policy measures the public is asking us to reflect on. That is really what the debate is about.
I support Senator David Cullinane's request. I have said this on a number of occasions, not only in this Seanad but in the previous two Seanaid. Each Minister should come to this House to debate their departmental programmes. As Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell said, many of the problems Ministers are only now seeing have been reflected on and debated in this House in the past two years but one would wonder if anybody has been listening. This should be a House of debate and we need Ministers to come to the House regularly. We will make positive suggestions and it is to be hoped they will listen.
I pay tribute to our leader, the Tánaiste, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, on how decisively he acted as a result of the disastrous election results we faced. Sometimes the players take the brunt of people's anger, which happened with our county councillors. On this occasion, the manager is the casualty. It is a shame it had to come to this but I pay tribute to him.
The Senator could be supportive of him.
Following on from Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell's contribution, the reason for the anti-Government sentiment is purely because of what is perceived as a disconnect between the Government and ordinary people in rural Ireland and in cities. When we went into government, people were willing to pay so much to address the finances of the country, but I do not think they have the capacity to pay for everything. I do not think we can ask ordinary people to pay completely the bills for bad banking and so on.
I congratulate Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan on an extraordinary result in the elections for the European Parliament.
Has the Senator gone independent again? Is he leaving the Labour Party altogether?
In respect of the disconnection that I have mentioned, I have seen Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan speak in the Dáil on numerous occasions. On one occasion he explained how dirty and undrinkable the water in Roscommon is. I saw Ministers looking down their noses at him, sneering at him. There were other such incidents.
Is the Senator calling for a debate on Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan?
These Ministers were not sneering at Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan. They were sneering at the people of Roscommon and south Leitrim and in many other counties. That is why Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan was elected to the European Parliament. As an elected Member of the Dáil he was not treated with any respect.
What has this got to do with the Order of Business?
I would not suggest for one moment that he was not most respectful himself. There has been such a disconnection at a senior level that these things happen in government.
I join in congratulating our colleagues throughout the country who have been elected and commiserate with those who were not elected. It is very difficult not to be elected. Only those who have gone through that trauma can appreciate how devastating it is. I hope there will be lá eile for those who are no longer members of local authorities and that they will be back.
In respect of people coming to certain parties with information about certain issues, Deputy Pearse Doherty of Sinn Féin should beware of Greeks bearing gifts. He can read that warning as he likes. He should not be using situations for the political advantage of Sinn Féin on the backs of others who have been gravely hurt. They are not aware, and he is not aware, of the source of information and he should not exploit any individual for party political purposes.
On a point of order, I am not aware of what the Senator is referring to. Will he explain what he is referring to?
That is not a point of order.
I am sure Deputy Pearse Doherty will interpret my words very well.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I have. I propose an amendment to the Order of Business. I want the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to come to th House. During the election campaign, ten days ago, I met a lady who fell in Roscommon town in Lisnamult. Her name is Miss Mary Curley.
The Senator is not allowed to name people in the House who are not here to defend themselves.
It is okay. I think she will appreciate it.
It is completely out of order, as the Senator knows well.
That is fine. The ambulance was called from Roscommon County Hospital. The ambulance driver, a very courteous man, Mr. Plunkett, informed me------
The Senator may not give such details in the House. Does he have a question for the Leader? Is he looking for a debate on something? What is his amendment to the Order of Business?
My amendment is that the Minister for Health come to the House to explain what is happening in Roscommon County Hospital. I boycotted his arrival there at 12 noon on Monday 12 May and refused to participate in any event in which he was involved at the hospital. It was an insult to the people of Roscommon that he came to the hospital. A colleague of mine staged a protest outside.
The Senator is way over time.
I am sorry, but this is very important.
I know it is very important, but the Senator is way over time. He may propose his amendment.
When I sought the information from Mr. Plunkett, he told me he was bringing that patient to Portiuncula Hospital 25 or 30 miles away.
The Senator is naming people in the House who are not here to defend themselves.
I am sorry, but I am going to finish this point. There is an emergency care centre at Roscommon County Hospital and she could not be brought to that unit.
There is another way for the Senator to obtain that information.
If I had picked her up off the road and put her in my car, she would have been-----
The Senator is way over time.
This is more important. This is factual. Our hospital is being downgraded. I oppose this.
The Senator should have said that first.
The Senator is part of the Government that downgraded it. He cannot wash his hands of the matter. The Tánaiste made promises to Roscommon County Hospital, as did the Minister for Health and the Taoiseach.
Will the Senator, please, resume his seat?
They are a bunch of liars.
I ask the Senator to withdraw that remark.
What?
The Senator called people "liars".
Whom did I call a liar? I did not specifically mention anybody. I said they were all a bunch of liars.
I second Senator Terry Leyden's amendment, although I am surprised at his optimism if he expects the Minister for Health, Deputy James Reilly, to come to the House and know what is going on in Roscommon or any part of the HSE or health services. That has become evident to everybody, including those in his own party, at this stage.
I concur with Senator Ivana Bacik's comments on the Tánaiste, as he handled his exit from the leadership in a very dignified way. I had many differences with him over policy, but I acknowledge his courtesy and assistance in the many representations we made to his office in the past three years.
Will the Leader arrange the debate I previously sought regarding the Dublin and Monaghan bombings? I attended the commemorations at Talbot Street and I listened to the fine words of the Taoiseach and subsequently noted the comments of the President on justice for the victims. These fine words will be of no consequence if they are not backed up by strong action, particularly with the British Government and authorities, in finding the truth.
There are lessons to be learned from the recent election and these must be taken on board by everybody in these Houses, particularly the Government parties which control policy. The medical card issue is not the only matter, and it would be a major mistake to focus exclusively on it, although it is certainly a major problem. Other issues include the drugs payments scheme, which we noted on the campaign trail is putting pensioners in a position where they must cut back on the drugs they need because they cannot afford to meet their cost. That is a scandal. There are also people on waiting lists who are having difficulty accessing necessary services. Piling public hospital bed costs on private insurers on behalf of people who have for their entire lives paid social contributions is driving those people from the health insurance market because they cannot afford to pay the premia.
This is only a small part of a range of issues we must acknowledge, including the taxing of pensions, homelessness and the aces given by a former Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, to bankers. People who have borrowed money and are the drivers of this economy - if they can extricate themselves from difficulties - have been left to the tender mercies of the bankers which caused this collapse. It is no wonder that people feel disaffected, and I support the call made for a rolling debate in this House that should involve the Ministers in Departments responsible for much of this disaffection. Across the party lines Members should not be afraid to concentrate on and criticise policies which have gone against the interests of citizens and the people. The Seanad is the place to do this. We should forget the tight control of Whips and look to represent the people, as that is what they want us to do. The public does not feel represented at this stage, which is the real message of the recent elections.
I congratulate everybody who was successful in the recent elections and commiserate with those who were not. There is a trauma in losing an election and in my area, one man lost by the swing of one vote after two and half recounts. It is very difficult for him and his family to deal with that. Much has been said about the leadership of the Labour Party and how Sinn Féin performed but it is time somebody mentioned the leadership of Fianna Fáil and our organisation throughout the country. A major marker has been put down for the future revival of our party, and this is a very important staging-post in our renewal. We are the leading party in the country at local authority level and we have the majority in many of the councils in the country. We are getting this back slowly but surely because we have proven to be an Opposition party of responsibility.
Now that we have so many Sinn Féin councillors and anti-austerity candidates - fair play to them for being elected fairly and squarely - I challenge them to step up to the mark. They should not sit back in Kerry, Cork, Dublin or Galway and wait for Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Labour Party to put together a majority group with the responsibility of running a council for the next five years.
It is time to step up to the mark and get involved, to take it on and pass a budget for the people and stop fooling them that they will get everything for nothing.
The Leader will be delighted to hear what I have to say as I am sure he thought I was a broken gramophone record the number of times I raised the state of Charleville railway station and the fact that elderly people have to climb a rickety steel stairs to get from one side of the platform to the other. I came to Dublin by train this morning and noted that work has just commenced on a state-of-the-art, spanking new lift for the public.
Well done.
It shows the Seanad works.
I am aware that every time I raise anything to do with the budget the Leader says it is a budgetary matter and discussion on it will take place at a later stage, but it is fair to mention that we live in an economy in which we do not have the freedom to tax people without realising that they have the opportunity to go abroad for goods or services, in particular with the Internet. My attention was drawn to something of which I was not aware. I do not attend horse racing meetings but I note that it has been estimated that €1.5 billion of betting money goes offshore because no tax is paid on it when one gambles on the Internet or one does it abroad. I take independent Irish bookmakers as an example, but one could as easily take grocers or others who face the same challenge. If one puts a tax on an Irish company, one cannot enforce it if one is able to buy things abroad, in particular on the Internet. The Minister for Finance should be reminded of the point, although I am sure he is well aware of it.
Many years ago when the former Minister, Charlie McCreevy, announced in this House that he was reducing the betting tax from 20% to 10%, there were howls of protest and it was said that he was looking after his friends in the horse racing industry. The following year he revealed to the House that he had made more money from the tax being at 10% than he had when it was 20% and he was going to reduce it to 5%. He again made more money on the 5% tax than he had made on the 10% tax. That is a real reminder to us, and it was before the advent of Internet betting. It is important to remind the Minister that every time one taxes something in Ireland, if it is capable of being avoided by going on the Internet, we will lose out. Let us ensure we are aware of this.
Like many Members, I join in the congratulations to all those who were successful in the various elections, both local, national and European, and commiserate with the people who lost out, many of whom had given 20 years or 30 years of loyal service to the people they represented. We should think of them today also.
Senator Darragh O'Brien raised the question of an electoral commission. My understanding is that it is included in the programme for Government and should and will be delivered. The point was also raised by Senator Ivana Bacik. I will try to obtain an update for the House on the creation of an electoral commission.
Several Members also raised the issue of discretionary medical cards. The issue has been raised in the House on a number of occasions. I agree that in many instances the communications sent to pensioners and people with long-term illnesses have been less than acceptable. Surely there is something wrong with a system that asks for such information from people in their 80s and 90s who have discretionary medical cards and were reviewed last year. Such persons should not be asked again for information when they were given a medical card valid until 2018. That is the type of thing that is wrong and for which there is no explanation. I do not stand over such practices; it is bureaucracy gone mad. I agree that the matter stops with the Minister who must take action to ensure it does not continue. The Government will respond and the matter will be dealt with in early course.
Too little, too late.
We are after hearing enough of the Senator who has already disrupted the House.
Will Senator Terry Leyden, please, allow the Leader to reply to questions raised on the Order of Business?
You have not heard the last of us.
Is the Senator angling to be thrown out of the House?
I have never been thrown out of this House or the Dáil. I have always said the Leader is the best we have ever had.
There will be no crossfire. Will the Senator, please, allow the Leader to reply?
Senator Darragh O’Brien referred to the multiple sclerosis drug, Fampyra. Any drug that improves the lives of people should be paid for. I will certainly raise the matter with the Minister. A figure of €240 a month is not an extraordinary amount for which to ask if it improves the lives of people significantly.
Senator Ivana Bacik and other Labour Party Senators raised the matter of the resignation of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore. Both he and the Labour Party have been very courageous in making collective decisions that have pulled the country back from the brink of economic collapse and put it on the path to recovery. We realise more than anyone else that it is just the path to recovery and that there is much more to do. In the next two years we will prove to the people that we were worthy to be elected and will be worthy for re-election in two years time.
Senator Katherine Zappone referred to the publication of the Government’s implementation plan to tackle homelessness. The plan has many positive aspects. The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, made a presentation on the issue to the Cabinet today and I have asked for her to attend the House on numerous occasions. Now that the process is complete, I hope she will address the matter in the Seanad soon. I am sure Senators can make suggestions on how the problem can be dealt with. Senators Katherine Zappone and Aideen Hayden also mentioned the need for regulation of the private-rented accommodation sector. That is another matter on which I have asked the Minister of State to address the House.
Some Members always raise the matter of Ministers not attending the House. I can only ask Ministers to attend the House; I cannot compel them to do so. I am doing my best to get the Ministers who have been requested to attend to come here.
Senator Sean D. Barrett lauded the former Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, and referred to the tributes paid to him by the Unionist leader, Mr. Mike Nesbitt, for his work on Anglo-Irish relations, in particular. I also agree with Senator Aideen Hayden that history will be very kind to him.
We will wait and see.
We will wait and see. That is what history is.
It might be a while yet.
Deputy Eamon Gilmore has done so much to restore our reputation abroad which was destroyed by the previous Government, a point Members opposite do not like to hear.
To the victor, the spoils.
I do not think the public sees it like that.
Members opposite should listen to the public more often.
Senator Denis O’Donovan made points about medical cards and boarded-up social housing. A new scheme is in place for local authorities, with €20 million allocated for social housing units to be repaired to provide much-needed housing.
Senator Michael Mullins and Catherine Noone raised the issue of personal attacks on social media against our colleague Senator Lorraine Higgins. Such attacks on any individual are deplorable.
Senator Marie-Louise O’Donnell asked if the Government would listen more to what Senators had to say. I regret the subsequent attack by Senator David Cullinane on her voting record as an Independent.
While I would prefer if she voted with this side of the House on all occasions, she is an independent person and votes according to her conscience, as I am sure she will always do.
Senator John Crown referred to the Garda whistleblowers which, as the Cathaoirleach said, is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and the Senator's representative. The two people in question have appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts.
Senator Paul Coghlan referred to the progress of NAMA in many areas in the interests of the taxpayer. I agree with Senator David Cullinane that the Government has been given a clear message by the public, to which it will respond positively. "Positivity" is not, and never has been, a word in the vocabulary of Sinn Féin which thrives on the misery of others and hopes people would be like that. We will respond positively to what the people are asking us to do. We have two more years and, much to the disappointment of the other side of the House, will deliver in the next two years.
I mentioned Senator Catherine Noone's points when I responded to Senator David Cullinane. She also mentioned social media.
Senator Paul Bradford referred to the debate on the housing crisis and said the response should not be developer-led. I agree with him and have commented on the availability of Ministers.
Senator John Kelly spoke about the disconnect between the Government and the people. For a minute or two I thought he was Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan's election agent, but I note the points he made.
He is generally confused about where he is from one day to another, whether he is a member of the Labour Party or an independent.
I do not know what Senator Terry Leyden was ranting about.
I was not ranting; I do not rant.
The Senator has proposed an amendment.
I object to that remark. I do not rant.
The Senator is only good at interrupting.
Will Senator Terry Leyden, please, allow the Leader to respond?
He was ranting.
The Government should look after the Garda Representative Association.
I do not intend to accept the amendment proposed by the Senator from Roscommon.
Senator Jim Walsh raised the issue of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, a matter the Taoiseach has raised on a number of occasions with the British Government and he will continue to do so.
Senator Ned O'Sullivan said Fianna Fáil was the leading party in local authorities, which it is. While I have congratulated all members who have been elected, it is unlikely that Sinn Féin will take up the Senator's offer in that regard. I am glad that the lift in Charleville is finally under construction.
Senator Feargal Quinn referred to offshore betting. The Gambling Control Bill has proceeded through Committee Stage in the other House and the matter of offshore betting will be dealt with in the Betting (Amendment) Bill. It should be subject to tax. Independent bookmakers are suffering. As Senator Darragh O'Brien has raised this matter on a number of occasions, perhaps we might debate in the House the report on the Gambling Control Bill which has been published by the justice committee.
As I said, I will not accept the amendment proposed to the Order of Business.
Senator Terry Leyden has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business, "That a debate with the Minister for Health on the situation at Roscommon County Hospital be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?
Absolutely.
Amendment put:
The Seanad divided: Tá, 13; Níl, 22.
Tá
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Crown, John.
- Leyden, Terry.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Donovan, Denis.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- Walsh, Jim.
- Wilson, Diarmuid.
Níl
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D'Arcy, Jim.
- D'Arcy, Michael.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Kelly, John.
- Landy, Denis.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O'Donnell, Marie-Louise.
- O'Neill, Pat.
- Sheahan, Tom.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Whelan, John.
- Zappone, Katherine.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ned O'Sullivan and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paul Coghlan and Aideen Hayden.
Amendment declared lost.
While Senator Kathryn Reilly voted inadvertently in Senator David Cullinane's seat, it makes no difference to the result of the vote.
We will accept the verdict of the Left.
Question, "That the Order of Business be agreed to," put and declared carried.