I ask the Acting Leader to outline the Order of Business for today.
An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business
At the outset, I compliment the Cathaoirleach on the two special events we have had since we met yesterday, namely, the address of Governor Healey from Massachusetts and the breakfast with Stephen Kennedy Smith this morning. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his leadership in organising the two events.
The Order of Business is No. 1, Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2022 - Committee Stage, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and to adjourn at 2.15 p.m., if not previously concluded; No. 2, statements on local government matters, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and to conclude at 4.00 p.m., if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, all Senators not to exceed five minutes, and with the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; No. 3, Veterinary Medicinal Products, Medicated Feed and Fertilisers Regulation Bill 2023 - Committee and Remaining Stages, to be taken at 4 p.m., and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 5 p.m. by the putting of one question from the Chair which shall, with regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Government; No. 4., Mother and Baby Institutions Payment Scheme Bill 2022 - Report and Final Stages, resumed, to be taken at 5 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 3, whichever is the later, and to adjourn at 9 p.m., if not previously concluded.
First, I congratulate the Cathaoirleach on the two events we had recently. Unfortunately, I was not here for Governor Healey's address yesterday, even though she has south Roscommon and east Galway connections. I had asked for a speaking slot, but something arose and I did not get here. It was nice to see the Governor address the Seanad. I support the Order of Business, as laid out by the Acting Leader.
I want to reflect briefly on a national movement that has made us all sit up and see what can be done, namely, the men's shed movement. Of course, after men's sheds became a reality, the women's sheds movement emerged. We should never underestimate the level of involvement of the movement in local communities, whether it is in Roscommon, Galway, Dublin, Cork, Kildare or wherever. We could not leave out the lilywhites. It is phenomenal. The movement is a very special one. It has been recognised by Government in recent years, with the awarding of funding to these groups. In my own part of the country, I see the interaction they have with all the groups and the good they do for society. Of course, there is a well-being issue as well. Some of these men were sitting at home doing nothing, suffering from depression - let us be honest and open about it. It is a new phenomenon and thing that is happening. It also takes pressure, to a degree, off our health system when people become involved in movements like this. As I said, the women's shed movement is now beginning to do great work as well.
There are some issues and difficulties up and down the country. For example, there is an issue with rates. It is sometimes hard for groups to get permanent buildings. A business that has closed down or a business person who has a shed might give over that building to the movement. That is happening in several parts of the country, but not on a permanent basis. In some counties the local authorities are seeking the payment of rates by those groups. It is not happening in all of the counties, but it is happening in some of them. It is an issue we might discuss. Maybe some day we will have a short discussion with the relevant Minister in relation to all that goes on with all the women's and men's sheds movements. We might also seek to remove the threat that is happening to some of them, whereby they are being pushed to pay commercial rates because they are going into what was previously a commercial building. Some local authorities are not doing it, but others are. There should be an agreement nationally that those type of voluntary groups are not charged rates. It is in place for most other groups. I would like to see that happening for the movement.
I want to raise the issue of active travel funding. I ask for a debate in the House on funding for local authorities through the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. Last year, I received a letter from members of Mayo County Council. Indeed, I was also contacted by members of other local authorities. They are looking for further funding for active travel and they feel they are not getting what they require. The Mayo allocation for 2023 is €4.5 million, and in 2022, it was €5 million, amounting to a reduction in funding of 10% this year over last year. I think it is the same in some other local authorities. The local authority applies to the Minister's Department for the funding. I think there is a duplication of work in relation to it. If the Minister makes an allocation, the council should spend it where it sees fit to spend it. Perhaps the local authorities propose schemes and the Minister's Department selects the schemes that will be funded. If that is the case, there is a duplication of work. The Minister should give X amount of money to a local authority and let the local authority members, along with the executive, decide on the works to be done and carried out in the most efficient manner. I suppose this is the way to go. Active travel is going to become a bigger issue in smaller towns, bigger towns and villages. We will have to see local buses operating within towns such as Castlebar, Westport and Ballina. There are quite a number of similar towns throughout the country. They will have to have a bus service. If they have a bus service, there will need to be bus stops within the town. As a result, the streets will become smaller, so there will be a need for more active travel funding. I would welcome a debate on this issue. It is a debate into which this House could have a big input. Our electorate, the local authority members, are very active in this area. It is a debate that would be warmly welcomed by Members of the House.
I welcome the students from Le Chéile Educate Together National School in Drogheda, County Louth. They are very welcome. I know there is no point in giving them time off from homework because they are in the last day of school, but perhaps when they come back on the first day of the next term their new teacher might let them off some homework.
From the United States of America, I also welcome the guests of Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh. They are very welcome. I have not got their names but they are here on an auspicious day as we celebrate the visit of President Kennedy 60 years ago.
I join with the Cathaoirleach in welcoming the guests. This is a special day because we are celebrating the anniversary, as the Cathaoirleach said, of the visit of John F. Kennedy, as President of the United States of America, to Ireland. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his leadership as well and especially for hosting the breakfast this morning that we shared with many people at the celebration. It was a nice but simple opportunity to come together and listen to some inspirational speeches. I again thank the Cathaoirleach for organising all that.
If one looks at the Oireachtas archive, it will be seen that President Kennedy's speech is there in full. Indeed, I have sent it around to people here today. One of the things that was interesting in the President's speech in 1963 was that he quoted from several Irishmen who had played key roles in American history. These included James Hoban, whom we discussed earlier, who was the architect of the White House; John Barry, the father of the US navy; John Boyle O'Reilly, a noted Fenian leader, poet and journalist; and of course Thomas Francis Meagher, the leader of the Irish Brigade in the Union Army during the American Civil War and later acting governor of the Montana Territory.
One of the most moving aspects of President Kennedy's speech that day to the Oireachtas was his presentation of a flag from the 69th Regiment, the Fighting 69th, to the Irish people. I played back the old footage from the RTÉ archive before I came in here. It was very moving. At the end of his address, President Kennedy presented that flag and called for action by the Irish people. He announced that Ireland's hour had come and that our role on the global stage was to ensure peace with freedom. After that, I went up to the room where our battle flag now is. I saw it for the first time since it had been taken down for conservation. I take this opportunity to congratulate the conservator and all the people who made this possible. After all these years, it was most interesting to see on the flag's return to the Houses, having been restored in the last few days, the strong symbols into which Meagher had clearly had some input. I refer to the Irish harp, the Tricolour and the shamrock, all embedded, embodied and woven into that flag and the detail and sense of Irishness. This was all very clear and moving. I am particularly pleased that it is back here in these Houses. It is one of the most iconic and emblematic symbols we have here and I thank everyone involved in this work.
I finish by referring to what President Kennedy said in his speech. The President said our two countries have supported each other in times of trial and in times of triumph. How true those words are. I again thank the people involved in this endeavour and the Cathaoirleach in particular. I also thank the people involved in the restoration of this battle flag and I urge everyone to see it as soon as possible. It is great that we can now bring Irish citizens on tours around these Houses again and show them the gift that President Kennedy and the American people gave the Oireachtas.
I again raise the issue of University Hospital Limerick, UHL, in respect of the HIQA report published just last week. I agree with the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, that it makes for bleak reading. I will summarise it as quickly as I can. In the 15 subcategories of the report listed, UHL was found to be fully compliant in just one area, substantially compliant in seven areas, partially compliant in five areas and, very worryingly, non-compliant in two areas. The report found that on the first day of the inspection, on 21 February 2023, the accident and emergency department was overcrowded by three times the recommended number of patients that could be treated safely. These additional 72 people were accommodated on trolleys and chairs in that department, which, of course, comes as no surprise to anyone living in Limerick because this has, unfortunately, been the daily reality for the best part of a decade now. The report noted like the March 2022 report, the normal means of facilitating patient flow were just not working at the hospital. At 11 a.m. on the day of the inspection, the hospital was not compliant with any of the national key performance indicators, KPIs, set out by the HSE for accident and emergency departments.
I could go on, but I should also mention the fact that right now we are on track to beat even the awful figures from last year in respect of patients on trolleys. Last year, 18,012 patients were on trolleys, but so far this year we have already had 9,615 patients who have had to suffer the indignity of being on chairs and trolleys when they have got to UHL. We know new beds are in the pipeline but, frankly, these will not be half enough to meet the number required. What we have not had from the Minister at any stage are solutions to deal with this crisis in the interim. I say this because we are at least 18 months and perhaps two years away from these additional beds being delivered.
Moving to two related points, I was stunned to learn after I raised the issue some weeks back that the contract cleaning staff in the hospital finally got the bonus payment. This is welcome. The security staff at the hospital, however, have still not got this payment. It is inexplicable. We must not forget these are the same security staff this Government has completely forgotten about in respect of the employment regulation order, ERO. An injunction has been issued to challenge that order and successive Ministers of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment have done nothing to deal with this injunction. This means the security staff are languishing on €11.65 an hour. This is a disgrace for some of our best and most essential front-line workers.
A related point in this regard is that several doctors and nurses have raised another issue. These are foreign nationals who keep our health service going and right now they must wait five years to get citizenship. This has significant implications for them. For example, if their children are going to university, they will be counted as non-European students. At a time when we are desperately trying to hire doctors and nurses, how can it make sense to require these people to wait five years for citizenship? Is this not an issue that should be dealt with quickly as a means of expediting addressing this situation and encouraging doctors and nurses, those foreign nationals who keep our health service going, to choose Ireland and to choose a life here?
If no other Member is offering, I call the Acting Leader, Senator Fiona O'Loughlin, to reply.
I thank the Cathaoirleach. This must be the shortest Order of Business in history-----
It is a record.
It is the shortest I have seen anyway.
-----but it was of great quality.
If it is okay and in order, I might actually take Senator Clonan.
I beg the pardon of the Cathaoirleach and Senator O'Loughlin.
The Senator was here, so I will call him.
I apologise but I was just dealing with an urgent message. I wish to raise the case of Captain Dr. Lisa McNamee. She is a young female medic in the Defence Forces. She was commissioned in good faith in 2017 to complete a special military medicine training scheme. It is part of the overall GP training scheme. She entered that scheme, as did other doctors, in good faith. The training promised by the Defence Forces has not taken place. She is being told that if she wishes to leave the Defence Forces she must pay €90,000.
I am concerned about this situation. Captain Dr. McNamee is a young woman and has a small child, a little girl. She wishes to get on with her life. She has served in the Defence Forces with distinction but she is not being allowed to leave and is not being given the qualifications and training promised to her at the beginning of her service. The Defence Forces suddenly announced that there will be examinations at the end of July, but she never got the placements that would support the examination criteria. She has only been given something like four to six weeks to prepare for these examinations.
My main concern here is that another doctor, who was commissioned with her, a male doctor, was allowed to leave without any obstacle or penalty. When Captain Dr. McNamee, however, as a young woman, filled in her form 608 application to apply to retire, she set out her concerns about the maladministration of the scheme. There are other matters in this regard. I refer to doctors and complaints to the Medical Council arising from the administration of the Army Medical Service. She has deep-seated concerns and I believe she is being targeted by the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces in the way that was set out in the judge-led inquiry. I refer to this pattern of reprisal. When people in our Defence Forces raise a concern, they immediately become the target of reprisal. Captain Dr. McNamee is being forced into compulsory military service.
That is disgraceful.
I thank the Senator.
This is discouraging other young doctors from joining. It is essential for our Defence Forces to have medical personnel out in places such as Syria and Lebanon. I have asked for a meeting with the Minister and a debate on this issue. I have also asked the Minister to come to the House. Can we have a debate on this matter? I feel this woman is being targeted. Given everything we know about this organisation, can we please do something for this young woman?
We need a debate in this House with the Taoiseach to give us clarity on his stance, and the stance of his Government, on what national conversations or debates are allowed to be held in this country. Last week, the Taoiseach took aim at anti-NATO protesters who demonstrated at the Government's consultative forum on international security policy in Cork on Thursday. He said he had learned about freedom of speech and democracy in the very university they were occupying. He stated firmly that the "most undemocratic thing you can do is to try shout down debate". He said the process-----
The Taoiseach was not in Cork last Thursday, just to clarify.
Yes, he was there on Thursday morning.
The Taoiseach was not in Cork. It was the Tánaiste.
It was the Tánaiste. I beg your pardon. I elevated the Tánaiste to a position I should have-----
He is well used to it, in fairness.
It is just in the interests of accuracy-----
I am sorry; it is the Tánaiste. I beg your pardon.
-----and to avoid giving false information.
That was false. It is the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin. He said the protesters, in what they were attempting to do, were "behaving in a manner that is intolerant of freedom of speech" and that they did not want to allow other views to come forward. “What you’re saying is, debate on your terms, or on nobody else’s terms”, he said. Yet, the Tánaiste is on record as stating unequivocally-----
I wish to give context. I hate to interrupt the Senator and in fairness she is entitled to speak but the Senator must understand that the Tánaiste was being interrupted by people as he was speaking at that event. The Senator should give a fair context and balance as well.
I did state that.
I do not believe the Senator did. I stand corrected. I am not trying to put the Senator off speaking but making the point that we should be fair in our summation of the event that took place last Thursday in Cork.
I did say it was in Cork and, yes, I did make a mistake and should have stated it was the Tánaiste.
As he was speaking, he was being interrupted. The Senator should be fair in that as well. The floor is hers.
Yet, the Tánaiste is on record stating unequivocally, “We don’t need to have that kind of debate in Ireland”, in relation to how gender-critical women found their voices in the UK and began to speak out against the erosion of their rights, identities and spaces as a result of the changes brought about by radical trans activists. In addition, the pronouncement that the most undemocratic thing one can do is to try to shut down debate is made at the same time as the Government is expected to make no amendments to what I believe must be the most criticised Bill in years, one which will most certainly have the effect of shutting down debate and eroding freedom of expression in this country. Why is it that the Tánaiste gets to decide what debates are had and which ones must be centrally and artificially suppressed? Perhaps he will come before the House to explain why this is the case.
I gave the Senator more time because I interrupted her.
I thank the Cathaoirleach. I appreciate that.
I invite the Acting Leader to reply.
Senators made up for the lack of quantity with quality this morning. We started this morning's business with Senator Eugene Murphy who spoke about the Governor of Massachusetts, Maura Healey. We were all very inspired by her speech in the House yesterday. I thank the Cathaoirleach for organising that. Governor Healey really is an incredibly passionate woman. In her short time, she gave an all-embracing speech on the strength of the Irish-American connections and her personal connections, which were interesting to listen to, extending from Galway to Cork and Kerry to Newry. It was also lovely to have her mum, who is originally from Ballinasloe, in the Gallery. Her talk was on inclusion and it was particularly significant given that it is Pride month and we are commemorating 30 years since the decriminalisation of homosexuality.
The strength of our economic and cultural ties, as we all know, are hugely important, particularly as we celebrated this morning 60 years to the day since John F. Kennedy made his historic speech in Dáil Éireann. We want to have more of that please. We want to have more people like Maura Healey in here. She gave us all a lot of food for thought. We really appreciate that.
Senator Murphy also spoke about men's sheds. I was fortunate enough to get over to this morning's meeting for a few minutes. I agree with Senator Murphy that the men's sheds are terrific organisations. They are involved in so many communities right around Ireland, especially in rural areas where they have a very strong focus. I have seen the benefits of men's sheds in Newbridge, Athy, Rathangan and Allen in County Kildare. The Senator is right that we should be supporting them more. We certainly should be asking for these groups to be free from paying rates. It is a challenge to try to get sustainable accommodation for men's sheds. There is no reason they cannot share accommodation with other community groups. I support that.
Senator Paddy Burke spoke about active travel funding through local authorities. Active travel is travelling with a purpose using one's own energy, including walking and cycling, and to make people think about how they travel more sustainably. The Senator spoke about the duplication between local authorities, the National Transport Authority, NTA, and so on. The Senator is absolutely right and I agree that sometimes there is duplication between the various organisations. We need more clarity.
Senator Burke mentioned that there has been a reduction in funding in County Mayo, which he feels is nationwide. We will put in a pre-budget message on that. The Senator is looking for a debate, which would probably cover Rural Link also. Rural Link is funded by national funding but works through local authorities and does incredible work. With the two different strands, active travel and Rural Link, it would be worthwhile having a debate and we will look for one. In many ways, this issue is the lifeline of rural Ireland.
Senator Boyhan spoke about the 60th anniversary of the speech by John F. Kennedy, President of the United States of America. The Senator is ten years older than he thought he was because he was referring to the 50th anniversary ten years ago. The speech was a celebration of the many noted Irishmen, and of course there were noted Irish women as well. The men he mentioned, including James Hoban, John Barry, John Boyle O'Reilly and Thomas Francis Meagher, were very worthy men. It is wonderful. The Senator is right to point to the restoration of the flag that President John F. Kennedy presented to the Oireachtas on behalf of the people of America and on his own behalf, as the US President. I thank Senator Mark Daly also for his input in that regard.
Senator Gavan spoke about University Hospital Limerick and the HIQA report, which addressed ongoing overcrowding in Limerick and other hospitals. The first thing we need to do is thank the staff who are working under very difficult conditions and doing sterling work. There has been a large increase in bed numbers over the past two years but as our population is growing and getting older, there is more demand. The problem does not seem to be a lack of funding but a lack of outcomes. Outcomes are always more important than funding.
The Senator also mentioned the issue of contract cleaning staff finally getting their bonus, which is good. The security staff have not received it, however, and we will take that up with the Minister. As the Senator will be aware, everything goes through an independent third party, which comes back with recommendations. There have been anomalies. I have come across a few before and I have been active in trying to help deal with them.
I thank the Acting Leader.
Senator Clonan spoke about the case of Captain Dr. Lisa McNamee who enlisted in 2017 on the understanding that she would have the opportunity to have medical training, which still has not commenced. It would now cost her €90,000 to leave the Defence Forces. Obviously, that is a huge amount of money. None of us could afford to be able to leave a profession if it cost that amount. The Senator has written to the Minister for Defence in relation to the matter. I do not believe we should necessarily have an open debate on it but I give the Senator a commitment that I will speak to the Minister for Defence and try to set up a meeting for him and Captain Dr. Lisa McNamee.
Senator Keogan said that she wanted a debate with the Taoiseach. I am not sure whether she wants a debate with the Taoiseach or the Tánaiste.
I corrected the record.
Is the Senator looking for a debate with the Tánaiste?
I will certainly not accede to a debate with the Tánaiste about what is and is not allowed. The freedom to protest and free speech are important to us all in Leinster House and it is absolutely a constitutional right. The issue that arose in Cork was that the Tánaiste was interrupted while he was speaking. The point he made was that there is and always should be a place for an alternative point of view, but it should be stated in an orderly fashion. It should not be done by heckling and interrupting someone who is speaking. The Senator also mentioned that the Tánaiste did not want a debate about trans issues. That is not what he said. I was there when he spoke about it and I remember. It was during Pride last year. What he said was that he did not want to see the conversation or debate turning as toxic as it had in England. We should be able to hold it in a mannerly and respectful format. I totally agree with him. At the time it was extremely toxic in the United Kingdom and unfortunately it has turned into a somewhat toxic debate here. That is not what we want. We want to respect people's views and opinions and to hold a debate in a mannerly fashion that is respectful of people on both sides of the debate.
A number of amendments have already been made to the Government's Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022, which the Senator spoke about. Since it came before the Seanad a few weeks ago, a number of amendments are being prepared. For example, my party is preparing amendments and is looking for a meeting with the Minister for Justice as we have some concerns about it. As the Senator is not happy with some of the content, I expect that she will table some amendments.
I thank Members for their attendance yesterday at the address by Governor Healey and their participation in this morning's wonderful event to commemorate the visit of John F. Kennedy 60 years ago today.
Order of Business agreed to.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 12.02 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 12.50 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 12.02 p.m. and resumed at 12.50 p.m.