I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
The Bill we are discussing this evening is not a knee-jerk reaction to the controversy that has broken out in and about RTÉ in recent weeks. The payment of RTÉ celebrity top talent has been a controversial topic for many years for the obvious reason that RTÉ gets most of its money from ordinary people by way of the television licence and people have certain expectations of what public service broadcasting should be and what it ought to mean.
In 2019, I said, and was reported as saying, that salaries and remuneration at RTÉ as the public sector licence-funded broadcaster should be pegged to public sector pay scales. In the intervening period, I have worked with the Office of the Parliamentary Legal Adviser in an effort to identify the kind of legislation that could address some of the public's concerns and have worked with others ahead of preparing and presenting this Bill. There has been a widely held view for a long time that the public service ethos to which RTÉ is expected to subscribe and that we expect it to promote has not been well served by the station having an overly commercialised culture where a small group of people enjoy very lavish salaries while others within the organisation and most of the people RTÉ serves have had to do with very much less.
This is not a matter of begrudgery. RTÉ presents itself as a community-focused organisation - the representative of us. It both mediates and leads the national response to disasters, crises, celebrations and important events of every kind. Indeed, it actively curates the public mood on a range of issues and events - sometimes justifiably and necessarily while at others excessively and unacceptably. The trust that this role to which RTÉ aspires and indeed advertises to us implies and presupposes a relationship between RTÉ, the people and the State that is not merely contractual and transactional.
For the same reason, namely, RTÉ's pretension to be the trusted curator of our national discussion and the relationship this presupposes, there has been alarm at reports of excessively lavish hospitality at the station - even when such hospitality is associated with the commercial side of the operation purely. Some of the concerns here may turn out to be unreasonable or otherwise not well founded. The reviews announced yesterday by the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media into governance, culture, contractor fees, HR and other matters will be better placed to assess RTÉ's commercial activity and some of the practices there.
In recent years, many will have felt that RTÉ has lost its way. This is reflected in the understandable decision of some people not to pay the television licence so controversial at times has been the losing of the way. People's anger does not just reflect disquiet about excessive salaries, a lack of transparency not to say a strategy of deceit, lavish hospitality and all the rest of it. The anger stems from a multitude of sources but around the country, there is very much a sense that RTÉ is D4 and that it excludes more than it includes sometimes, whether that is viewpoints in news or culture. I have had tussles - often referring to it as a State broadcaster rather than a public service broadcaster - and I have been critical of the way in which RTÉ and its personnel have sought to shape our thinking in a way that has gone far beyond their remit at times.
Now RTÉ has arrived at its Kairos moment - the right critical or opportune moment as the ancient Greeks expressed it. The current crisis is an opportunity and it is in this spirit that I put forward this Bill because it provides RTÉ with an opportunity to escape the clutches of commercialism and, indeed, a crass celebrity culture, which are the sources of many ills now being pored over. It is an opportunity to reassess and embrace a new spirit and ethos of selfless public service.
This Bill primarily seeks to cap top salaries in the organisation but it can presage a new dawn at the corporation. Yes, a cap on salaries may lead to a faster turnover of talent but that is no negative thing for a public service broadcaster serving young talent and rewarding it at a level that is appropriate for a small island nation and also accepting that the lure of brighter lights abroad may draw some people away. In a different time, we were all proud of the late Terry Wogan and his success at the BBC and nobody thought that RTÉ had missed a trick by letting him go. It is no bad thing either for RTÉ to be a training ground for staff at commercial stations - perhaps contributing to their standards also, although we should acknowledge the excellent beginnings that both local and commercial media have given to staff who in turn have ended working in RTÉ.
A cap will encourage people wishing to be part of public service to do just that - to serve the public through broadcasting. It will also help change how our RTÉ is seen by the nation. Service evokes admiration. We appreciate people who serve the public. There is a sense that they are surrendering something of themselves for the good of all and for that, we are grateful. On some levels, RTÉ does a very good job. The removal of overly commercialised salary payments will not undermine that and, indeed, may endear audiences more to top presenters.
My Bill will help restore that public service remit to RTÉ. It may lead to a new dawn for RTÉ's next century of public service and I hope, therefore, it will get a speedy passage. I note the Government's response is to table a timed amendment that will delay the passage of this legislation for a year. This is a mistake. The Government has let less well-prepared legislation pass in these Houses - certainly in the other House - on Second Stage. I agree the reviews commissioned by the Minister should inform legislation in this area but where my legislation strikes, it strikes clearly and coherently and any amendments it may need on Committee Stage could be informed by the outcomes of the reviews. This legislation needs to go through as soon as possible because even if the Bill was to pass tomorrow, it may take a couple of years for some people to see out existing contracts. My Bill naturally respects existing contracts until they have concluded so we should not have any further delay.
The key aspects of my Bill are first that it provides that no matter how constructed, whether by way of direct employment contract or a contract or more than one contract with an individual or company, no person working at a corporation - RTÉ or TG4 - would receive in excess of the salary and allowance of the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, which is a sum of approximately €195,000. Some would say that is too generous while others would say it is not generous enough. I am very open to further discussion about that. My Bill also provides that it shall be necessary to take into account the difference between the benefits that go with being on a direct employment contract with public service benefits and being on an external contract.
The Bill focuses on the limitation of salaries but it also focuses on transparency requiring the publication of any salaries in excess of that received by a Deputy, which is some €107,000. The Bill deals with accountability in other ways. One of the areas in which RTÉ has sometimes strayed from its remit is in failing to properly honour the duties and codes of broadcasting, particularly around impartiality. There have been numerous findings on that over the years.
The Bill provides that it will be a condition of a contract for anybody involved in news, current affairs or other content to be fair and impartial and keep their personal and political views out of their content. It requires that where breaches are found by the existing compliance committee under the legislation, the station would determine and publish the kinds of sanctions it may impose, for example, a temporary loss of earnings, a suspension of contract or the requirement for and publication of a public apology. All of this is part of restoring public confidence under the heading of accountability.
It is not long since there was a report on the future of broadcasting. In my submission to the consultation in that regard, I called for respect for the diversity of public opinion on social and cultural issues. For example, as we grapple with housing and migration challenges, a public service broadcasting remit needs to ensure that the voices of communities that have not been consulted, that are facing the strains of day-to-day living and that have been forced to the margins as the State tries to cope, are heard just as much as those voices which rightly encourage to attitudes to solidarity. They are not mutually exclusive. A public service broadcaster does not shy away from difficult realities. Rather, it seems to be a forum for discussion, even anger sometimes, as well as for dialogue and, hopefully perhaps, resolution.
In all we are doing here, we need to distinguish between personalities and issues. People have a right to negotiate for the best terms and conditions for the job they do. There is nothing unusual or unnatural about that. In recent days, some of my own political class have forgotten the respect that is due to people even as hard questions need to be asked. Committees in Leinster House that are looking into various issues at present should consider letting their questions be known beforehand so as to enable those who are appearing to give proper responses, instead of trying to catch people out. There should not be grandstanding or pouncing on witnesses in public. Last week, I saw a man being pressured to reveal his salary. This might have made for good television, but it was deeply unfair to someone who is just doing his job. He would have been within his rights to take time out or choose not to answer, but he was bullied into doing so. This was not a good moment for the Oireachtas. Mistakes were made and penalties may be due, but public shaming and a general woke cancel culture is never a good way for politics to conduct itself. There always needs to be respect. For those who have been found to have done wrong in whatever way, there should be a way back through explanation, apology, sometimes a penalty but more importantly, reform.
I reiterate that this is a Kairos moment for RTÉ. It is an opportunity to burst the Dublin 4 bubble, to see clearly the distinction between commercial and public service activities and to grasp the difference between being a State broadcaster and a public service broadcaster that works for the whole public and helps to create and renew a sense of unity in our society.
The word "diversity" gets honourable mention in the terms of the reviews the Minister has established. I will say, because it is part of the problem here, that this cannot be the new intersectional diversity that continually seeks to divide us. Better that it be the diversity of Wolfe Tone that seeks to unite around a common Irish identity, one which we proudly seek to share with every new person arriving on our shores.
It is in the spirit of what will hopefully be a Kairos moment for RTÉ that I commend the Bill to the House.
