I thank Members for their co-operation this morning. There has been a last-minute change to the running order so Senator Fitzpatrick will go first.
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
School Accommodation
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, for coming to the House this morning. I want to discuss the wonderful St. Peter's National School in Phibsboro, Dublin 7. I am not sure if the Minister of State is familiar with it. It is one of Dublin's oldest schools. It is located on St. Peter's Road and Cabra Road - right in the heart of Phibsboro. It was founded in about 1890 and is school to almost 500 boys and girls. It is a fabulous school with great young people and teachers. It is a really strong and healthy school community where education in all senses is championed. It is a happy environment and a school that teaches not just excellence in academics but excellence in personal development.
It underwent a very significant renovation a number of years ago that was completed in 2008 - almost 15 years ago. This breathed new life into the school. Unfortunately, a number of snags were not dealt with at the time and subsequent to that, some pyrite was identified in the building. Those issues are obviously quite significant. What is most lamentable is the fact that the Department of Education's building section has not dealt with either of them.
The school has continued to thrive. It has a great ethos, atmosphere and approach. It applied to the Department and secured approval two years ago for two special classes with the intention of providing an appropriate environment for 12 students. The Department granted approval for those special classes but no work has progressed and we are two years on.
I have previously made representations directly to the Department and previous Ministers. The school needs a clear response from the Department of Education's building section on the Department's plan to resolve the snags and the pyrite and, most importantly, to move on and develop the two special classes. The school has a very strong community between the pupils, the teachers and the parents and this community is willing to work with the Department. I hope the Minister of State can advise the House on the Department's plan to deal with the snags, the pyrite and the delivery of the two special classes.
I have not yet visited St. Peter's National School but I am familiar with it. As the Senator noted, it is one of the oldest schools in Dublin and has a great ethos in terms of education and inclusivity.
I am aware of the situation regarding pyrite. I will run through some of the issues chronologically. In 2006-07, a major project was carried out at the above school that consisted of the restoration and refurbishment of the original 19th-century building, which is a protected structure; the demolition of the buildings to the rear of the school; and the construction of a three-storey building and two-storey extension consisting of general classrooms, a general purpose hall and ancillary accommodation. The project reached substantial completion in June 2008. A dispute between the school and the contractor later arose and was never resolved as a pyrite issue came to light. In correspondence that issued to the school in June 2014, the school was advised that it would be appropriate to progress the matter of pyrite and remaining snags with its insurers, who would be in a position to provide the board of management with legal assistance regarding both matters.
In July 2017, a structural survey report was requested by the board of management of the school due to issues with cracking and damage to internal surfaces in the new school extension. The report findings identified the presence of pyrite in the extension and recommended the repair of the items listed. In an email to the school in June 2019, full details on the application process for emergency works were supplied to the school to address any issues that arose as a result of pyrite.
In further correspondence that issued in October 2019, the school was again advised to get any urgent repairs relating to pyrite carried out under my Department's emergency works scheme. The school applied for funding under the emergency works scheme to repair damage to floors and their surrounds caused by pyrite. The total amount approved to carry out these works since 2021 is around €282,000. It remains open to the school to submit further applications for funding under my Department’s emergency works scheme to alleviate any health and safety issues caused by pyrite.
In August 2022, the school was approved funding under the Department's additional school accommodation scheme, ASA, for the provision of a two-class SEN base. However, in December of that year, it was established that due to the presence of pyrite in the existing building, the ASA project delivery will be delayed. The school have been advised that the pyrite will have to be removed first then the project can proceed with a pyrite green certificate.
My understanding is that Department officials are currently co-ordinating a date to meet the school representatives in an effort to get the issues resolved and they will be in further contact with the school in due course. Obviously, as Minister of State with responsibility for special education and inclusion, the fact that this school is proactive in providing an SEN base for not just one but two special classes is of particular interest to me. Therefore, although the planning and building unit does not really fall under my remit but that of the Minister, Deputy Foley, in terms of capital projects, I have an absolute interest because of the special education element and I do not want to see that delayed. For those reasons, I am grateful to the Senator for tabling this Commencement matter today. I will certainly bring her comments and contributions back to the Department.
I commend the Minister of State on the work she is doing to support children, not just in St. Peter's but all around the country, to be educated appropriately in appropriate settings with the right supports. That is very welcome and she is to be commended on that work.
It is welcome that the Department's building section is going to meet the school. I would appreciate if I could be advised when the date becomes available for that meeting. The school officials will be very happy to meet with the Department's building section. It is absolutely critical that the pyrite issues are resolved, the investment that is made in that school is protected and that further investment can actually go ahead. There can be no further delays to the special classes. St. Peter's is honestly one of the best schools in terms of its attitude and fostering of a happy learning environment for every child who walks through that door. I really appreciate the Minister of State's and Government's support for the school and willingness to address these issues. I am hopeful we will not have to return to this issue in the Seanad again.
I can only imagine how frustrating it has been for the school. This pyrite issue came up through no fault of its own and, indeed, through no fault of the Department I would add. It is just one of those things that happened. It is regrettable that there have been delays, however, not just for the SEN and special education end but for the whole school with its 500 pupils, as the Senator mentioned. I will be doing all I can to make sure this meeting goes ahead, which it will. I am not 100% sure if it is with the planning and building unit, but it certainly will be with Department officials who will be able to communicate with the planning and building unit with regard to making an effort to getting these issues resolved as soon as possible. Certainly, in my own remit and in my capacity, I will be doing everything to keep an eye on this to make sure it is expedited.
Farm Inspections
I thank the Cathaoirleach's office for choosing this Commencement matter. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, to the Chamber although I must express my disappointment that there are three Ministers in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, none of whom are here this morning.
Keelderry commonage in east Galway has eight shareholders. An inspection in 2010 found 0% eligibility for farm payments. That is 0% in terms of forage. No control report for the inspection took place. One shareholder was notified of the results of both inspections, and following his request that the findings be reviewed, the eligible area was increased to 10%. The Agriculture Appeals Office upheld this decision. No other shareholder was notified of the inspection findings nor afforded the opportunity to appeal. As I said, no control report for either inspection was issued.
In response to a parliamentary question in 2021, the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, stated "every on-the-spot check for land eligibility and area based scheme requirements should be the subject of a control report as detailed in Article 41 of Commission Regulation (EU) No 809/2014". A further question was put to the European Parliament on 25 October 2020. The response stated "In addition, the beneficiary shall be given the opportunity to sign the report and add observations, even electronically, before the competent authority draws its conclusions for payment processing." The response went on to state "The absence of control report could indicate a breach of EU legislation."
Roll on to 2012, when a second shareholder had an inspection on his farm. The commonage was also inspected by different Department personnel on the same day. Again, no control report was issued for either inspection. The commonage eligibility was raised to approximately 12% at this inspection. He appealed the findings to the agricultural appeals officer, who said he could not accept the Department figure and found in favour of the shareholder in August 2015. The Department ignored the decision and appealed the findings to the director of the appeals board. In February and March 2013, other shareholders were notified of the findings of this inspection and were told that if they did not accept these figures, they would be penalised going forward. One shareholder was not notified of the findings at the time. The director of appeals upheld the decision of the appeals officer in September 2016 and the Department ignored this decision. Two shareholders issued proceedings for a judicial review in early 2017 and it was heard in 2018. A senior inspector gave a false sworn affidavit, which was the subject of the judicial review. The letter that was sent to other shareholders in 2013 outlining the findings of the 2012 inspection was never sent to one of the shareholders. During the appeal hearing, it was pointed out that there was an inconsistent approach taken at the Department with regard to other regional commonages in the Kildare area. After this appeal was made, the Department's staff attempted to reduce the eligibility of its surrounding commonages. It is clear that there was an action taken to justify the incorrect actions previously employed with regard to the Keelderry commonage. These changes to eligibility were withdraw by the Department when faced by the threat of a judicial review by the shareholders of these commonages, but it still persisted with the Keelderry findings.
In October 2013, a senior inspector prepared a report after inspecting the Keelderry commonage and without any shareholder being notified of an inspection or being afforded the opportunity to sign a control report. This report was used by the independent appeals board in January 2014 when carrying out an inspection ordered by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. This report only became available to the shareholders in April 2016 following a court order. It had been withdrawn under previous freedom of information, FOI, requests.
What we have seen is a catalogue of issues, delays and procrastination with regard to the inspection of the Keelderry Commonage, and the shareholders are the people who were impacted. In March and July 2017, a Department official from another county inspected the-----
When the Senator is ready.
Just one moment. An official inspected the commonage and gave a 96% eligibility. Both gentlemen, two shareholders, were successful with their judicial reviews. The eligibility found by this inspector from outside of County Galway was the area granted and both received their outstanding payments. This is the crux of the issue. As a precedent was set, two of the shareholders were paid. It was assumed that the other shareholders would then automatically be paid-----
I thank the Senator. I will have to wrap up on time.
-----but they were not.
I thank the Senator. The Minister has four minutes to respond.
I thank the Senator for his comprehensive delineation of what happened with regard to this particular issue. Keelderry commonage is an area of land owned and claimed by nine applicants under the single payments scheme, basic payment scheme and other area-based schemes which form part of the overall Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, schemes. There are four separate land parcels which were claimed as rough grazing and permanent grassland.
In 2010, one of the nine applicants was selected for inspection. His application included shares in the Keelderry commonage. The inspection findings indicated a reduction in the number of eligible hectares available to all those claiming Keelderry commonage, resulting in a reduced payment under the single payment scheme.
In 2012, as the Senator mentioned, another applicant under the basic payment scheme who also happened to be a shareholder in Keelderry commonage was selected for inspection. This inspection included all lands as declared by the applicant, including the share in Keelderry commonage. In brief, it was found that the applicant, in this instance, was not conducting any agricultural activity on the commonage. Following an appeal to the Agriculture Appeals Office, this decision was overturned and the applicant’s share of the eligible area of the commonage was re-instated. After the issue was raised in the Oireachtas and at the European Parliament petitions committee, in January 2014, the independent Agriculture Appeals Office carried out a review of the decision of the Department regarding the eligibility of the land. This review included a site inspection. All shareholders were notified of this visit and were given a copy of the report of that review in April 2014. The Agriculture Appeals Office confirmed that the land was mainly ineligible and upheld the results of the Department’s inspection of 2011.
A number of the shareholders instigated court proceedings against the Department in relation to the payments under the various schemes, essentially contesting the outcome of the Keelderry commonage inspections.
All of these court cases have either been settled or withdrawn by the applicants. The legal basis and the definition of an eligible hectare changed in 2015 as the scheme changed from the single payment scheme to the basic payment scheme.
Following legal advice, the Department conducted an inspection of the lands in mid to late 2017. The inspection found that more than 90% of the area was eligible under the basic payment scheme rules. The result was applied to all shareholder applications from 2015 onwards. None of the original shareholders sought a review of the inspection results. Subsequently, the basic payment scheme applications of the Keelderry claimants from 2015 onwards were recalculated, considering these findings, and any moneys outstanding were reimbursed.
The Department is satisfied, from my understanding, that there are no further moneys owed to the applicants under those circumstances. The Senator can appreciate that I am bringing this response to him on behalf of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. If he has any further contributions to make I will, of course, bring them back to the Minister.
I appreciate that the Minister of State is not a line Minister in the Department. The correspondence from the Department states that the inspection found that the whole of the 90% of the area was eligible under the revised basic payment scheme rules and the results were applied to all shareholder applications from 2015 onwards.
Unfortunately, this only came about because of the judicial review taken by two of the shareholders. As I said, as a precedent was set it was expected that all other shareholders of Keelderry commonage would receive their outstanding money. However, the cycle started all over again. Money was withheld and there were no responses to queries. The other shareholders are owed a significant amount of money. I absolutely refute the claim that the Department is satisfied that no moneys are owed to applicants.
There is considerable money owed to applicants and shareholders of the Keelderry commonage. This was brought to the attention of the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, who gave an initial response to one of the shareholders and did not subsequently respond to a comprehensive report on the moneys that were being withheld. I ask the Minister to go back to the Department and Minister and inform them that the shareholders of Keelderry are deserving of their payments. They are lawfully due these payments and it is not good enough that just because two shareholders had the means to take a judicial review and were successful that the other shareholders are being denied their due entitlements. This goes back to 2010. It is a long-running saga. It had to be settled in the courts and the Department now needs to pay all of the remaining shareholders.
I appreciate what the Senator has said. Obviously, I am bound by what the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has instructed me to communicate to him today. That is quite clear. The Department is satisfied that there are no further moneys due to the applicants. I have heard that the Senator is of the view that the shareholders are entitled to moneys and the reasons for that. I will certainly bring that back to the Minister and Department.
Medical Cards
I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to discuss this important issue. I was contacted by a number of people, mainly those aged over 75 and who have certain illnesses and are on medication, who are affected by the requirement to have a medical certificate in order to renew their driving licences, the cost of which is not covered under the medical card scheme.
Many have to renew their licences every three years because that is the rule. In one case, somebody paid €65 to renew a licence, and will have to pay €65 every three years. The Government gave those aged over 70, as well as people with illnesses and special disabilities, medical cards. It is not their fault that they have to get these certifications, the cost of which is not covered under the medical card scheme. I have raised this issue on previous occasions and it did not go anywhere, but it is something that needs to be considered because a huge cohort of people are affected by this. It is not fair that they have to pay anything between €50 and €65 every three years for a medical certificate.
I thank the Senator for raising this matter and I appreciate she has raised it in the past. The Health Act 1970 provides that persons who are unable, without undue hardship, to arrange GP medical services for themselves and their family can qualify for a medical or GP visit card. The Senator is obviously aware of that. These services are provided for under the general medical services, GMS, scheme through which the HSE contracts GPs to provide medical services to medical and GP visit card holders.
Under the terms of the current GMS contract, GPs are required to provide eligible patients with all proper and necessary treatment of a kind usually undertaken by a general practitioner and not requiring a special skill or experience of a degree or kind which general practitioners cannot reasonably be expected to possess. The HSE reimburses GPs for services provided under the GMS contract and medical and GP visit card holders are not subject to any charges in respect of such medical services, including the cost of GP consultations.
The contract stipulates that fees in respect of certain medical certificates which may be required, for example, under the Social Welfare Acts or for the purposes of insurance policies or the issuing of driving licences, are not covered by the contract. Obviously, the Senator is already aware of that. GPs are private practitioners. Accordingly, any fees charged by them for services provided outside of the terms of the GMS contract are a matter of private contract between the GP and their patients. It seems that is the area that should be concentrated on. This includes medical reports required for driver licence applications.
The requirements for the submission of a medical report from a registered medical practitioner with driving licence applications for certain categories of persons, including those aged 75 and over, is governed by the National Driver Licence Service, NDLS, and the Department of Transport. There are no plans, I understand, to include the completion of medical reports required for driving licence applications as a service to be provided to GMS patients by GPs under the GMS or GP visit card schemes which focus on services for the treatment of patients.
Nevertheless, I can see what the Senator is talking about when she mentioned the fact that the cost is quite prohibitive. The matter of a charge of €65, in particular in the case of a licence renewal every three years, is something I can bring back to the Department and Minister. I thank her for her contribution today.
I thank the Minister of State. I know it is not her area of responsibility, but it is disappointing to hear the response from the Department of Health, on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. We are all aware that the cost of these certificates is not covered under the scheme. That is the whole point. To be given the facts of what the Act is about and what the scheme covers is disappointing.
I appreciate the fact that the Minister of State will bring this matter back to the Minister. It is an area that needs to be looked at. It is unfair that some have to pay these charges, in particular those aged over 75 or those with a disability. We are all talking about equality of service and the Minister of State is doing great work in terms of people with disabilities and special needs. I am sure she fully understands exactly where I am coming from. I would like her to bring this matter back to the Minister, with a caveat that he should consider this in terms of budget 2024.
Again, I can bring the Senator's representation on including this in budget 2024 to the Minister. From a humane perspective, there is huge merit in what the Senator has said. My understanding, from the statement today, is that the Department is bound by the GMS contract and the fact that GPs are private practitioners, most of whom hold a GMS contract with HSE for the provision of GP care without charges for medical and GP visit card holders.
The scope of services under the contract does not include all services that may be provided by general practitioners. As the Senator said, she is aware of all of this.. She is bringing this matter to the attention of the Seanad and me, in my capacity as Minister of State with responsibility for special education.
I can bring back that to the Department and the Minister. The fact that Senator Maria Byrne brought it up in the past as well may have some value.
School Accommodation
I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, who has responsibility for special education and inclusion. There is little to no capacity available for national school places in Ballinasloe town. What is the strategy from the Department of Education for school places for children in Ballinasloe now and for the next five years? What happens when home tuition grants have to be put in place? There is the cost of that alone, but there is also an issue with the lack of teachers or school tutors to perform this role.
Since I was elected a councillor for the Ballinasloe municipal district area in 2019, I have raised issues related to school capacity in the town with the Minister of State, who has been very helpful in some regards, and the Department. Ballinasloe is a growing town, which is fantastic for the east Galway and south Roscommon area, yet children are left without a school place. Families in the town are panicking and trying to book school places three or four years in advance.
The 2022 census showed that 7,361 people live in the Ballinasloe urban area. We have 554 children from newborn to the age of four in the town. Galway County Council, through its housing section, plans to allocate more than 120 units in 2023 and 2024. We can already see 70 stunning new high-spec homes close to the Tesco store, made up of three- and four-bedroom units. These are to be allocated and will be much-needed homes for families in the Ballinasloe area, in particular those in receipt of the housing assistance payment, HAP. This will open up rental property in the town. We are in dire need of it.
Given the increase in housing, it is fair to say we will have approximately another 100 children of schoolgoing age within six months in the Ballinasloe town area. Where are these children to go? I have spoken with principals and teachers in the area who are fearful of pressures in the time ahead. I have spoken with the educational welfare officer for the Ballinasloe area and the manager for the Galway-Roscommon-Mayo area. They have highlighted the real strain in Ballinasloe town. Parents are stressed. They are trying to book years in advance and trying to keep siblings together.
We have three national schools in the town. All the principals have come together in their own way. They have agreed to start enrolment on the same day next year. They have been doing this for the past few years to manage the pressure. The Minister of State will be familiar with St. Teresa's Special School in Ballinasloe town. It takes in children and young people with severe and complex needs. It is likely that we will have between 120 and 150 children starting mainstream junior infant classes in the Ballinasloe town area in September 2024. I honestly do not know where those children are going to go. Scoil An Chroí Naofa is a DEIS level 1 school with 288 pupils. I have worked closely with the school and the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, the Minister, Deputy Foley, the board of management and the principal, Ms Connor. We are delighted the decision to approve planning has been made. It was promised 27 years ago when the school amalgamated but now we have a decision for a new design for this school. It will have 300 students and 16 classrooms but there are planning conditions. I ask the Minister of State for her support to move this project forward so that the design team will work with the school to meet the planning conditions. Even so, the school will take three years to build if we get the green light for everything and priority for the budget in a streamlined way. I am talking about what will happen now and for the next three to five years.
Creagh National School, our second national school, has 440 pupils. I have worked with the principal, Ms Ní Cholleráin Bleahene and the board of management, as well as the special educational needs organiser. With the Minister of State's support, for which I am grateful, two additional classrooms will shortly open in the school. I will be very pleased to welcome her to Ballinasloe in November to visit this school, which is also at capacity. There is a waiting list of 24 pupils and two new classes. We are in dire need. I would appreciate the Minister of State's support on this.
I thank Senator Dolan for her contribution on such an important area as school places. The Commencement matter relates to mainstream places but I might mention special classes and special school places as well. The former come under the remit of the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, as opposed to me but I am happy to provide this response.
In regard to home tuition, which was mentioned in the matter raised, the Department operates three categories of home tuition: special educational needs on medical grounds; reasons other than special educational needs on medical grounds; and maternity-related absences. The purpose of the grant scheme is to provide funding towards the provision of a compensatory educational service for children who, for a number of specific reasons, are unable to attend school. Home tuition is not an alternative to a school placement and is provided in very limited and specific circumstances. By its nature, it is intended to be a short-term intervention. I understand that in Ballinasloe one home tuition was sanctioned where there was no school place.
The no school place scheme, which falls into the category of home tuition for reasons other than special educational needs on medical grounds, is available where a child is temporarily without a school place and is actively seeking a school placement or may be taking an appeal under section 29 of the Education Act following expulsion. Those who qualify for this grant scheme can employ a tutor to provide nine hours home tuition per week. This scheme is operated with the assistance of the educational welfare services of the Child and Family Agency. Application forms for this grant scheme are available from the educational welfare officer. Some 174 students received home tuition under the no school place scheme during the 2022-23 school year across the country. As I indicated, there was one place in Ballinasloe.
In general terms, in regard to school planning purposes, which is a concern of Senator Dolan, as it has been in the past in relation to special education also, forward planning is critical. That is the approach the Department takes on a daily basis. While at times it may seem that there is a panic about where children will find places, that is obviously something the Department looks at, not just for next year but for the following five years, as Senator Dolan mentioned. The Department divides the country into 314 school planning areas and utilises a geographical information system to anticipate school place demand. It gets the information from a range of sources, including child benefit data, school enrolment data and information on residential development activity, which is used for this purpose.
Project Ireland 2040 population and housing targets are also used. Projections for post-primary school place requirements are informed by multiple factors, including primary school enrolments in the area and primary to post-primary transfer patterns. Major new residential developments in a school planning area have the potential to alter demand in that area. In that regard, as part of the demographic exercises, my Department engages with each of the local authorities to obtain the up-to-date information on significant new residential development in each area. This is necessary to ensure that schools' infrastructure planning is keeping pace with demographic changes as there is a constantly evolving picture with planned new residential development. Where demographic data indicate that additional provision is required, the delivery of this provision is dependent on the particular circumstances of each case and may be provided, for example, through existing unused capacity within a school or schools, by extending the capacity of a school or schools or through the provision of a new school.
Ballinasloe town is in the Ballinasloe school planning area. There are 17 primary schools in the school planning area, one of which, as the Senator is aware, is a special school – St. Teresa's, which I visited. My Department's projections indicate some continued growth in primary school place requirements across the school planning area out to 2040.
I thank the Minister of State very much. The time provided is quite tight to cover all of the information.
I am not finished.
I know. The Minister of State will have more time.
Eglish National School is trying to get a bus to bring 23 children to school. It co-ordinated and got letters from principals from the surrounding schools, so it is not just Ballinasloe urban area and the three primary schools there. Scoil Náisiúnta Naomh Treasa in Killure, County Galway, St. Catherine's National School in Aughrim, County Galway, Newtown National School in Creagh, County Roscommon, St. Augustine's National School in Clontuskert, County Galway, and St. Ciaran's National School in Moore, County Roscommon, cannot take those children in. These schools are oversubscribed and have indicated that to the Department of Education.
Fifteen of the 23 children in Eglish National School are from a Traveller background. I spoke this morning with the refugee resettlement support worker in Galway County Council who is trying to bring two refugee families into Ballinasloe.
In one family, the father has a job but the mother cannot drive. I am at a loss. She cannot get a place for those children in Ballinasloe town. That is as of this morning. I know we are speaking here about a five year plan. I am aware it is not the Minister of State’s area but I do not see this plan and I am asking for her support. We need a high-level meeting between the principals of these schools, the education welfare officers who are now within Tusla and with the Ministers and senior officials within the Department of Education. There needs to be a plan for schools in a 10 km radius as well as in the town of Ballinasloe and that is not there at the moment.
The Department has asked me to make the Senators aware of the reasons there are sometimes enrolment pressures in Ballinasloe. It is important to note that sometimes when these enrolment pressures arise, it may not be as a result of the lack of accommodation. The bus is a separate matter and I will certainly bring that particular case back to the attention of the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley. One of the factors could be the duplication of applications, namely, where pupils have applied for a place to a number of schools in the area. It also could be because pupils cannot get a place in their preferred school of choice while there are other places in other schools in the town or the area. Another factor could be because some towns or areas have single sex schools and, while places are available in the school, they are not available to all pupils. Then there is also the external draw of pupils coming from outside the local area. Notwithstanding this, the Department will continue to keep the school-place-needs in Ballinasloe under close review. There are ongoing discussions with relevant school patrons and authorities which form part of the Department's assessment of school place requirements. That close engagement is absolutely critical for future planning, as the Senator has said. It is critical for planning now, but also into the future so that there is no child left without a place, whether that is a child with special needs or who is going into mainstream schools.
I greatly appreciate the Minister of State coming to the House today and for giving us her time. I know she has a busy schedule. I thank her for seeing through the four Commencement matters; it is appreciated.
I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Fleming. It is great to see him back.
Northern Ireland
I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House this morning. I propose to speak to the UK Government's Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023. Over the past year, I have met with Lord Caine, who seemed to take the lead on this on behalf of the UK Government, on three separate occasions. I will say at the outset how disappointed I am in him from what he told us from day one about how he was going to take on the concerns of individuals, families, and ourselves. The sad reality is that on the two occasions I followed up with colleagues from both Houses on other meetings, nothing had changed. Legislation like this should have victims front and centre and what has happened here is completely the opposite. It is a reckless piece of legislation by the British Government. It reminds us of the Thatcherite politics of the past. This legislation is retraumatising victims. It is wrong that victims have to go to take cases themselves and this is where Government needs to step in. Senator McGreehan is not here at the moment but she was also very anxious that I put this Commencement Matter forward today.
This Act also completely undermines the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement. The fact that one of the guarantors is acting unilaterally in the manner in which they have, breaks many human rights laws. There are many victim groups in Northern Ireland. Gráinne Taggart from Amnesty International has been on the phone to me a lot. There is the WAVE Trauma Centre and other organisations. Representatives of these organisations are all hoping and praying the Irish Government will step up to look after their interests. It is imperative we do not spend too much time doing the paperwork and ensuring our i's are dotted and our t's are crossed. It is imperative that we move in time. We cannot take too long to decide if we are going to take a case to the European Court of Human Rights. It is only right that we do. It is well known and well documented that this legislation breaks many human rights' codes. It is not good enough that victims are left having to take cases with no other avenue to deal with this. I look forward to the Minister's reply.
I appreciate the Senator raising this matter. It is one I know to which he is deeply committed and interested in and he has been watching very closely since this whole issue regarding the Northern Ireland legacy Act and the Bill was originally announced some time ago. I also join Senator Blaney in acknowledging Senator McGreehan's continuing interest in this matter as well. Senator Blaney has been a particularly strong advocate and voice of criticism on this legislation and I encourage him to continue his contacts as the Government will also continue to do through its own channels.
The Northern Ireland Legacy Act received royal assent on 18 September. Since the British Government unilaterally introduced this legislation in May 2022, there has been consistent and widespread opposition from all the main political parties in Northern Ireland, victims and their representatives, church leaders, and civic society, as well as from international observers and experts, and from this Government. I would includ the Senator, who has been based in a Border county all his life, to this list.
At every opportunity, the Taoiseach and Tánaiste have made known the opposition of the Government to their British counterparts and have called on them to pause the legislation and return to the principles of the Stormont House Agreement, which were agreed by both Governments and most of the Northern Ireland parties. In 2020, the UK Secretary of State for Northern Ireland recommitted to that agreement but with the new legacy Act has moved unilaterally away from it. It is a matter of deep regret that this way forward was never given a chance, that is, through the work under the Stormont House Agreement. We have serious concerns around the Act’s compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights, ECHR, referred to by the Senator on a number of occasions in his opening remarks. In particular, we have concerns about the provisions around the granting of immunity for crimes amounting to gross human rights violations and the shutting down of all outstanding legacy inquests. This is a source of real distress for many families waiting for inquests or pursuing civil litigation related to the death of their loved ones, and will likely have a negative impact on reconciliation. A key element of reconciliation is being able to go through the process of what happened in the past and having the facts out there, as comfortable or as uncomfortable as they may be for some people. This is an essential part of reconciliation.
In addition, a significant number of international observers, including the Council of Europe, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, and US representatives, have expressed serious concern about the provisions of the Act. Respect for the European Convention on Human Rights is at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement, which is the bedrock of peace in Northern Ireland. Its implementation in Northern Ireland law is a specific requirement of the Good Friday Agreement. This Act risks undermining the fundamental rights of the people of Northern Ireland. In so doing, it damages the process of reconciliation, which we have worked so hard to progress. The Government must now consider its response to the passing of this Act by the UK, in the face of unprecedented opposition, and in the face of what previously had been agreed. I know this matter is on the agenda for both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste. The issues mentioned by Senator Blaney regarding the European Court of Human Rights are under consideration and we are awaiting legal advice from the Attorney General on that matter.
I thank the Minister of State. Senator Blaney has one minute to reply.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. Victims will not take a lot from it but what can be taken from it is the statement that the Act undermines the fundamental rights of the people in Northern Ireland and, in so doing, damages the process of reconciliation we have worked so hard to progress. That is absolutely right.
The Minister of State is correct that the European Convention on Human Rights is at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement. I reiterate that I would like to see the Government set a timeline for a response. I do not want any waiting around. I will keep raising this issue at every opportunity. Will the Minister of State take back to the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste the message that time is of the essence? We want to see our next move sooner rather than later, and that move should be to take a case to the European Court of Human Rights.
Since the publication of the Bill, the Government has raised this issue at every possible forum, including the United Nations and Council of Europe, and at political and official level. The Act will damage reconciliation. It represents a unilateral and unnecessary departure by the UK Government from the agreed process for dealing with legacy issues in the Stormont House Agreement.
The initiation of an interstate case against the United Kingdom before the European Court of Human Rights in relation to the UK's legacy Act would be a very significant step and not one that would be taken lightly. However, the Government has sought legal advice on this matter. While I do not have an exact date, that advice will be received in the near future. When it is received the Government will consider what subsequent action should be taken at that stage. It is a matter of deep regret that this is the space in which we find ourselves.
I thank the Minister of State. I also thank Senator Blaney for raising this very important issue. We have dealt with the five Commencement matters selected by An Cathaoirleach.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 10.52 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.30 a.m.
Sitting suspended at 10.52 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.