Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Mar 2024

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Electoral Process

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. As the Minister of State knows, we will have a referendum on Friday. We do not know what the results will be but it is certain that we will see the closure of thousands of primary schools all around the country to facilitate the vote. While I appreciate this may bring some joy to some of the students and indeed the staff, it causes childcare difficulties for many parents as a result. I am not in any way suggesting that primary schools are childcare providers but it causes a number of problems for parents who planned their week and suddenly have to take a day off because of a vote. In addition, it is a day out of the formal education system for children.

I appreciate that if we move to Saturday or indeed Sunday voting, which would be in line with many of our fellow EU member states, that may resolve some of those issues, although the evidence is not yet clear from the last general election or indeed the children's referendum that Saturday voting increases turnout. That said, we need to look at broadening the range of venues that can be used as polling places, particularly because of the impact on education and the disruption that it can cause to some families. I appreciate, because these are public buildings, that there is a cost saving to the State because it is using public buildings, but there are other public buildings that may possibly be used. I am thinking about libraries, local authority offices or indeed Garda stations.

In the UK, local authorities have a mandate that every five years, they have a responsibility to conduct a compulsory review of all polling places. This would make sense here, not just for that reason but also because, as the Minister of State knows, there have been issues with the accessibility of certain polling places. I think we should move to a situation where all polling places are particularly accessible.

It is interesting that, in Australia, electors can vote in any polling place in their constituency. This makes a lot of sense. Your polling place may be close to where you are living but because of what you are doing during the course of the day, your place of work may not be close. The polling clerks are able to check online, with somebody's identity, and are able to cross them off online when they come in to vote. Australia has quite a number of pre-poll voting centres where people can come prior to the election and cast their vote. These, interestingly, do not just include supermarkets but airports. If people are on their way out of the country, they can still cast a vote at an airport.

We need to facilitate people to vote in accessible places. We do not need to continuously rely, as we have since the vote was granted, primarily on primary schools. As the Minister of State is aware, there have been pilots using supermarkets and other polling venues in other countries. The evidence about whether it increases turnout in them is inconclusive. It is important that we try to ensure that we facilitate people, particularly families which, as the Minister of State knows, come in all forms, which I hope will be reflected in the referendum on Friday. For those families, there can often be a difficulty if their local primary school is closed. I ask the Department to indicate that there will be a review of polling places or at least that it might request the Electoral Commission to carry out such a review

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

I thank Senator Malcolm Byrne for raising this issue. I have to declare an interest in that my children lobbied me this week to try to have their school included. Unfortunately, it is not, but they would certainly like to have their school included as one of the polling centres.

I know the issue of how our elections and referendums are run is prominent as we prepare for the holding of two referendums this Friday, 8 March, that on the Thirty-ninth Amendment of the Constitution (The Family) Bill 2023, and that on the Fortieth Amendment of the Constitution (Care) Bill 2023. The primary role of the Department in electoral matters is to provide an appropriate policy and legislative framework for a modern and efficient electoral system. Within that framework, local returning officers are responsible for all matters in connection with the actual conduct of elections and referendums. In accordance with section 94 of the Electoral Act 1992, this includes the provision of a sufficient number of polling stations, conveniently distributed for the accommodation of the electors entitled to vote there.

Electoral law provides that a returning officer may, for the purposes of taking a poll and counting the votes, use a school or any room in a school free of charge. Guidance issued to returning officers by the Department in advance of electoral events advises that when schools are used as polling stations, every step should be taken to ensure that schools are not closed unnecessarily and that disruption of school work should be kept to a minimum. The guidance advises that, where possible, school halls should be used instead of classrooms and that voting compartments and other equipment should be fitted up and dismantled after school hours. The guidance also advises that it is open to returning officers to hire a hall or other premises if they consider it to be appropriate, so there is flexibility. It is important to note that the wide distribution of schools around the country helps to fulfil the requirement under electoral law to provide polling stations conveniently distributed for the accommodation of electors.

Given the week that is in it, I would like to use this opportunity to thank returning officers and their staff throughout the country for their hard work and dedication in ensuring that polling happens in every polling district and constituency. The logistical work in ensuring the taking of a poll for an electorate of some 3.4 million people should not be underestimated. I also acknowledge the flexibility and facilitation shown by school principals, teachers, staff and parents in facilitating the use of schools for polling. This facilitation can come at an inconvenience for schools and I thank all involved for their co-operation.

I will come back in again with a supplementary response. The Senator has made some valid points, specifically in regard to Saturday and Sunday voting, to which the Electoral Commission will refer when it publishes its research programme following the public consultation that took place earlier this year. The Senator himself asked whether it would increase turnout. It may not and different jurisdictions have had different experiences with it. There is a regular review of polling places following electoral events. I have met disability and access groups with regard to accessibility and ensuring that polling stations are fully accessible. We want to ensure that we can have maximum participation in all of our electoral events, which is the premise of this Commencement matter.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I join the Minister of State in thanking all of those involved in the electoral process because, without them, we would not have the democracy that we have. While this causes inconvenience to schools, the Minister of State will be aware that one of the primary reasons that I raise this as a concern is the effect on parents. If a school closes and they have existing childcare arrangements, they may need to make different arrangements as a result of the school closing.

I believe the Electoral Commission's review of this needs to be considered. I welcome the fact there is a review but we have been using primary schools forever and it is unfortunate that a number of them remain inaccessible, particularly for those with disabilities. If we are going to continue to require people to go to a specific polling station, then every polling station should be accessible to everybody. We need to look at more flexible ways of allowing people to cast their vote, including the possibility of voting in advance.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I agree with the Senator. Certainly, in terms of accessibility, the view from the meetings I have had with our franchise section and with access groups is that significant improvements have been made regarding public accessibility and ensuring premises are fully accessible for people with visual impairments and physical disabilities.

That is critical. As I said, the objective is to maximise the participation of everybody who is eligible to vote in our electoral system. We have the referendums this weekend and the local and European elections in June, and it is will be very important to try to get a high voter turnout in both those electoral events.

I take on board the points the Senator is making about the use of schools and the inconvenience for parents. It is something we will take back to the commission and ask it to look at. It is going to publish its research programme shortly relating to the use of Saturday and Sunday voting, whether that would increase turnout and what the experience has been in other jurisdictions. Nevertheless, the flexibility is there to segregate parts of school premises and seek out halls or other suitable premises in constituencies.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State. Before I call Senator Cummins, I welcome to the Gallery Isobel Danaher from County Clare and her father, Dan. Isobel is an award-winning student journalist in post-primary school. She has interviewed me over the years and had several articles published in the regional press. I have no doubt this will be her first of many visits to Leinster House. I also welcome her father, Dan, who has been a journalist for decades with The Clare Champion. I hope Isobel will have an informative day and that Leinster House will not put her off politics.

Development Contributions

Senator John Cummins

I thank the Acting Chairman. We look forward to good coverage of today's Seanad Commencement matters in the local newspapers.

I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, who is attending the EU housing ministers' summit in Brussels. I am calling for an extension of the waiver that has existed for the past ten months regarding section 48 development contributions and the refunding of connection charges that apply to water and wastewater connections as levied by Irish Water for new homes. As the Minister of State will know, these measures were introduced under the Housing for All action plan to incentivise an increase in the housing supply and help reduce construction costs for those in the sector. The measures were time limited when they were announced and they applied to developments that commenced on site between 25 April of last year and 24 April of this year and that will be completed before 31 December 2025. These measures were warmly welcomed by the sector, which has been grappling with a high-interest rate environment, increased costs of construction and inflation but, as we approach the end of that 12-month period, there is an element of uncertainty as to whether they will be extended.

I am making the case for extending them for a further year on the basis they are having the impact we in the Government parties had wished for. Data shows that commencements were up 21% in 2023 to more than 32,800 housing units, which will obviously translate into completion figures this year and next. What is more, the data for the past three months is even more encouraging and shows an even greater ramp-up in the sector, at 3,357 units commenced in January, 3,167 in December and 3,087 in November, bringing the average over the past three months to 3,204. If we extrapolate that over a 12-month period, it equates to 38,444 housing units, assuming we can maintain that momentum. This measure has increased the number of commencements and I believe that if we continue that for a further 12 months, that trajectory will continue to go in the right direction, which is what we all want to see. That is despite it not being lost on anyone in the Government that the Opposition opposed these measures when they were introduced last year. They are working, however, and thankfully, we did not listen to the Opposition when it was saying they should not be introduced.

In addition to extending the waivers, there is also a strong case for including formerly vacant and derelict properties, particularly those that require a change of use. I was successful in having measures introduced in 2022 to include vacant former pubs in the exemption from the requirement to apply for planning permission and that has resulted in many such properties being brought back into use. However, for the purposes of water and wastewater connections, they are treated as if they were new developments, which means, for example, that a former pub with one water and one wastewater connection that has been converted into eight units is levied for seven water and wastewater connection charges. That has an impact on viability. If this measure is extended, which it should be, it should also include those properties because there are viability issues in bringing them back into use.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

Boosting supply is key to addressing the problem at the heart of the housing system. Housing for All has set an average annual delivery target of 33,000 homes per year over the period up to 2030. In this context, it was noted early last year that some permitted developments were not being commenced. This appeared to be due to increased housing construction costs. Construction inflation, including both labour and materials costs, arose from global supply issues as well as other related viability issues. On 25 April 2023, the Government approved additional measures under the Housing for All action plan to incentivise the activation of increased housing supply while also addressing cost and viability issues faced by the construction sector. These measures included the introduction of temporary, time-limited arrangements for the waiving of local authority section 48 development contributions and the refunding of Uisce Éireann water and wastewater connection charges. The new schemes apply for one year to all permitted residential development that commences on site between 25 April 2023, the date of the Government decision to approve the measure, and 24 April 2024, which will be upon us quite shortly, and is completed not later than 31 December 2025. This end date is to facilitate large schemes to be speedily brought forward and progressed while also incentivising their completion as quickly as possible within a reasonable timeframe, thus delivering urgently needed housing supply.

Addressing vacancy and maximising the use of existing housing stock is a primary objective of this Government, as demonstrated by the focus given to this priority area in pathway No. 4 of the Housing for All plan. Under the plan, 28 regulations that provided for an exemption for the requirement to obtain planning permission in respect of the change of use of certain vacant commercial premises were extended until the end of 2025. These regulations included a new and additional class of premises eligible to avail of the planning permission exemption, that of public houses capable of providing up to a maximum of nine residential units, as Senator Cummins referenced. In addition, the vacant property refurbishment grant is available for the refurbishment of vacant properties for occupation as a principal private residence and properties that can be made available for rent.

It is not proposed to extend the terms or timeline of the temporary, time-limited arrangements for the waiving of local authority section 48 development contributions and the refunding of Uisce Éireann water and wastewater connection charges beyond those approved by the Government in its decision of 25 April 2023.

Senator John Cummins

Many involved in the sector will be quite surprised by the last paragraph of the Minister of State's reply. I appreciate that today is 5 March and these measures are in place until 24 April. As a Government we want to drive commencements and encourage everyone that has valid planning permission to get on-site before that date. However, while the answer given may be valid today, I hope that in the coming weeks a decision will be made to extend the waivers for a further year. These measure have had the desired impact. We have seen a positive trajectory in the commencement data and we need to see that continuing if we want the output and completion figures to continue to increase. I will speak to the Minister for housing, Deputy O'Brien and to the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell about this, as I am sure will individuals from the construction sector itself.

I would appreciate it were the Minister of State to convey to the Minister the strong need, which I have emphasised today, to extend the scheme for a further 12 months and beyond the current scope of the scheme.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

The development contribution waiver scheme has made a positive contribution to the highest level of annual residential commencements in 2023 since records began in 2014. This means that the uplift in new home delivery experienced in 2023, when almost 32,600 new homes were completed in Ireland, will be sustained in 2024 and into the coming years. Almost 33,000 new homes were commenced in 2023, which is an increase of 22% over the 27,000 new housing starts in 2022. That is very impressive and is an upward trajectory in the right direction.

Given the significant exemptions from planning that exist for refurbishment for residential use, many existing vacant buildings do not require planning permission and would not, therefore, be subject to development contributions. There is also significant grant aid available to bring such buildings back into use.

The vacant property refurbishment grant is playing a really important role in bringing vacant and derelict properties back into use as homes with some 6,800 applications to date, which is very impressive. Together with a range of measures that were introduced by this Government, the development contribution waiver scheme has played a part in accelerating housing commencements. The waiver scheme has been impactful precisely because it is a limited and time-bound measure for a specific period. We will continue to provide funding supports targeting the refurbishment of vacant and derelict properties for residential use but it is not intended to extend the waiver scheme beyond the closing date of 25 April 2024.

Energy Policy

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

The importation of coal from the Cerrejón mine in La Guajira, Colombia, has been the subject of long-standing serious concern especially when, having previously ceased imports, the ESB resumed purchasing coal from the controversial mine in 2022. Cerrejón is the largest open-pit coal mine in Latin America. There is a litany of documented human rights, and environmental harms and damages, associated with the mine and its activities. A 2020 report by Christian Aid found that "Over the course of its history it has been linked to the expulsion of up to 35 indigenous and Afro-Colombian communities." It also found that the pumping of contaminated water into the Ranchería river "is linked to elevated levels of cancer, reproductive ailments and renal and liver problems", as well as the extraordinary environmental damage to the river itself.

In 2023, a report from Columbian NGOs, Censat Agua Viva, CENSAT, and the Center for Research and Popular Education, CINEP, with support from Oxfam Colombia, found that indigenous communities are subjected to violence, threats and harassment when attempting to peacefully resist their dispossession and displacement. The report also highlighted that pit expansion, since 2017, has sought to divert a 3.6 km stretch of the Arroyo Bruno, which is the main source of water for more than 40 indigenous communities. The report notes that the current closure plan for the mine is likely to exacerbate human rights and environmental rights as there is no comprehensive or credible plan to remedy decades of environmental harm and human rights. There is no repair. Indeed, there is huge anxiety that communities will be left with a scarred environment as the company walks away with its profits.

Last autumn, the ESB took another massive shipment of coal from Cerrejón. Apparently it took workers two weeks to empty a ship of 180,000 tonnes of coal here in Ireland. However, we still do not have clarity on how much coal the ESB has imported, how long these stocks will last, whether further purchases are planned and, crucially, whether the stated commitment to stop burning coal at Moneypoint by 2025 is going to be pushed back.

The ESB is 97% State owned. It is a vehicle for the Government's energy policy. The lack of transparency is not acceptable. The failure to address human rights concerns is also not acceptable. I note that in previous responses to this query the ESB cited its membership of the Bettercoal initiative. This is an initiative which has been highlighted by civil society organisations as a non-transparent industry-funded initiative. It is an initiative from the coal industry itself and many EU energy companies have distanced themselves or left that initiative.

There is a mediation process under way between the ESB, the Global Action Legal Network, GLAN, and Christian Aid, due to a serious complaint that has been lodged in respect of the ESB's purchases. Let us be really clear. We should not be purchasing coal from the Cerrejón mine, on which the UN has been clear and spoken about it being in breach of human rights. There are 12 High Court rulings in relation to violations of the communities' human rights. Now that a right to a healthy environment is recognised as a human right internationally we should not be part of that. I hope the Minister of State will be able to answer this issue. What actions will the Government take, first of all to distance ourselves from these appalling practices and for the fact of the 180,000 tonnes that have been imported into this State after we knew about the human rights violations? Again, I hope the answer is not going to be the better coal initiative because that is for the industry. We need to be listening to the UN standards on the human rights. What are our plans to contribute to the transition as this mine closes, to climate justice, and indeed to the repair work that will be needed?

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. It certainly brings to light a whole range of challenges from extractive industries in the supply chains of materials. I am taking this Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister for Environment, Climate and Communications.

While we are transitioning away from carbon intensive fuel sources at pace, coal is still a critical fuel source for electricity generation today. This dependence is expected to diminish significantly by next year when the ESB's Moneypoint power station transitions away from burning coal to generate only off heavy fuel oil, HFO. Operating on HFO will reduce the carbon intensity of Moneypoint compared to coal operation while also retaining fuel diversity on the island of Ireland. As I understand the figures, coal use is down by 50%, oil use is down by 80%, and Moneypoint will stop burning coal altogether at the end of 2025.

The ESB recently submitted a planning application to deliver this change in fuel source from coal to HFO. ESB is a commercial State company and Ministers do not have any statutory function in any of the day-to-day operations of the business. Since 2018 ESB's purchase of coal from the Cerrejón mine has been very limited, accounting to about 1% of the total produced by the mine. Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the subsequent imposition of EU and other sanctions the ESB stopped purchasing coal from Russia and secured replacement coal from Australia, Colombia and South Africa to support the security of Ireland's energy supply.

The Department of Foreign Affairs is aware of human rights and environmental issues that have been raised by the NGOs and others around the operation of the Cerrejón mine and has been following closely the developments on this complex topic. Officials have visited the mine and engaged with all stakeholders. Officials in Dublin have also met with civil society organisations and members of communities close to the mine's activity and continue to encourage all sides to engage in dialogue on the issues at play.

More broadly, Ireland takes a very active role in supporting the promotion and protection of fundamental rights and freedoms in Colombia, engaging with human rights defenders and the country's vibrant civil society organisations on a regular basis. The issues in the region of Colombia are complex and multifaceted with differing perspectives at play. The solution lies in continued dialogue and engagement between the affected communities and the mine itself. We will continue to monitor the human rights situation in the region of La Guajira and across Colombia, and remain actively engaged on these issues.

We recognise that addressing social, land-related and environmental issues is an essential component of Colombia's peace process and we remain committed to supporting Colombia in the comprehensive implementation of the 2016 peace agreement and other peace-building efforts. Nevertheless, the State has a role in how we power our country. Under this Government I am working with State bodies like the ESB. Ireland is transitioning at pace away from coal and fossil fuel use to renewables. As an indicator, the use of fossil fuels for electricity generation was markedly down in 2023 in comparison to 2022, with coal use down by 50% and oil use down by 80%. Importantly the Moneypoint power station will stop burning coal to generate electricity by the end of 2025 when it will be converted to run on oil as a backup to electricity generation only. This will be until 2029. Renewable energy and gas efficient gas-fired power stations will always be called upon first. For a number of years ESB has been working on the future redevelopment of Moneypoint as a clean renewables hub. We are transitioning and certainly we are very conscious of the human rights issues the Senator has raised. It is something in which the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Oireachtas generally are playing a very active role.

As I said, it is important all sides engage on these issues as well.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

We stopped importing coal from Russia because of human rights concerns and international law and we fund the importation of coal from other places that are committing human rights violations. That is gross hypocrisy. As for the idea we are following developments and engaging with all sides, let us be clear we are driving human rights violations and we are funding a company that commits them. We are not dispassionately observing what might be happening. We are putting our money on the side of a fossil fuel company that has been found to breach human rights and is continuing to do so and we are going to do so until it finishes and shuts down. When it shuts down it will not be engaging with communities. It is clear the company's plan is to exit and leave a filthy, destroyed environment and desecrated communities. Then we will go shopping and find whatever other slightly under-the-radar, human-rights-violating place we can buy coal from. That seems to be the policy at the moment. This idea of observing and watching is absolutely unacceptable. I would like to know what the urgent measures we can take to address the human rights violations are rather than hear about the slow scaling-down of human rights violations. Let us stop now.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Seanadóir. I have outlined the position on the matter and reiterate the ESB is a commercial State company and Ministers do not have a statutory function in any of the day-to-day operations of the business. The dependency on white coal to run Moneypoint power station is expected to diminish significantly by next year, when it transitions away from burning coal to generating only off heavy fuel oil.

The Departments of Foreign Affairs and the Environment, Climate and Communications are aware of the Global Legal Action Network. A coalition of NGOs has lodged a complaint before the national contact point for the OECD guidelines for multinational enterprises relating to the ESB's purchase of coal from the mine. The contact point delivered its assessment in late 2022, offering its good offices to both parties. Ireland also takes a very active role in supporting the promotion and protection of fundamental rights and freedoms in Colombia and engaging with the country's vibrant civil society organisations.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

The Government is undermining our credibility in that respect.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

It is my understanding the ESB is currently engaged in a formal complaint resolution process with Christian Aid and other NGOs and the ESB has signalled its willingness to engage in this in a full and meaningful way. The ESB is engaging and I have outlined the Department of the environment's role in relation to that too.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State and Senator Higgins. I am sure I speak on behalf of everybody in asking her to pass on our very best wishes to President Higgins for a speedy recovery.

Regeneration Projects

Senator Róisín Garvey

It would have been great to have the Minister for housing in, but I am sure he is very busy. This relates to upstairs living. I ask the Minister what has been done to achieve the programme for Government commitment to ensure underused building stock in small and large urban centres is brought into use. Specifically, what progress has been made under the Town Centre First policy commitments to bring about the living above the shop measures?

When we were forming this Government I was involved in the programme for Government negotiations around rural development. One of the specific wins we, in the Green Party, got was the Government commitment to getting people back living in our towns and villages and specifically keeping the shops alive downstairs while having people living upstairs. Some three and a half years in, we have not done that. We said we would need to look at the fire safety regulations because they are the prohibitive factor cost-wise and they are designed around new builds rather than older, heritage buildings, as the Minister of State knows. I ask the Minister what we have done. We do not have specific data on upstairs living potential. All the upstairs space between the canals in Dublin could accommodate 4,000 apartments. The CSO does not ask the question, which is a pity as we do not have the clear data. All a person needs to do is to go through any town, village or city and look upstairs to see blocked-out windows and nobody living there.

This is something we got in the programme for Government. The Green Party fought for this. I remember being in the room and fighting for the wording, so it would be very specific, namely, Live Above the Shop measures. Despite this, we do not see anything happening around making the regulations any better. Not only that but the joint Oireachtas committee on housing worked on that and its Chair, our colleague, Deputy Matthews, brought forward recommendations in May 2022. That report stated that "the value of 'living over the shop' is ... also about the effect it has on town centres".

It also brings people back. It is not just about creating homes, which is the number one challenge we have in Ireland, but it also brings vibrancy and life back into the towns.

We are not dealing with it properly. We are not looking at it from a perspective of how derelict housing officers are just looking at whole housing being derelict. They are not looking at dereliction upstairs.

I know anecdotally from friends of mine who have tried to do up old buildings that it costs them an arm and a leg to get all the regulations done and if they want to have two uses, they have to do it all twice. I see people who thought they might be able to live upstairs and have a shop downstairs have given up and are now converting the downstairs into a home. It is deeply concerning because in a housing crisis where there already is built structure, the carbon footprint, costs and all that is much lower if an existing building can be done up that has services, is in a town and people do not have to drive there. We all think the one-off housing thing is putting pressure on the landscape but if we are not giving people an alternative, what choice do they have but to build one-off houses all around Ireland? I cannot blame them for wanting to do that if we do not give them other choices.

There were many good recommendations. They suggested a single national platform to be created to integrate, compile and effectively organise existing and future data on vacancy and dereliction and basically a one-stop shop to get certificates. The amount of money charged for certification is insane and it has to stop.

We did great on the Croí Cónaithe fund and that is brilliant. It was a big green win for us. Some 240 people in Clare have got it, which is fantastic. However, if they take an old building in a town or village, they can only live in it; they cannot have a shop. We want retail in our small towns and villages. We are not all driving to cities all the time. It is a no-brainer.

Last, in respect of our derelict housing officers, the numbers do not reflect the amount that actually are there. I urge people to contact their local derelict housing officer to tell them about derelict houses they find. There is a form, which is embedded deeply and very hard to find, on council websites. It is called a complaints form, which it should not be. One can fill it out and let the derelict housing officer know where these empty buildings are, of which there are thousands everywhere. There are 43 in my parish alone.

What is happening? We got it in the programme for Government. Three and a half years later, what have we done to get people living upstairs again?

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

Before I call on the Minister of State, I welcome Ned and Mary O'Hara. Ned is a former general secretary of the Irish Postmasters Union and did great work over the years. He is very welcome to Leinster House. I hope he and Mary enjoy their day. They are guests of Senator Carrigy.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I thank Senator Garvey for raising this issue. I certainly recall those programme for Government discussions. I brought the town centre first policy. I tried to replicate it from the Scottish experience. It was a critical component of the programme for Government, as is tackling vacancy. The programme for Government commits to examining ways to ensure that unused or underused building stock in urban centres can be made available for much-needed housing. As Minister of State with responsibility for heritage, I see this as I travel the country. I see 19th-century building stock, probably 100,000-plus buildings, that are pre-1922 that have amazing potential right across our towns and could meet an awful lot of our housing needs.

Initiatives we have taken to bring such properties back into use include extending exemptions for certain vacant commercial premises, including over the shop spaces, and making it easier to convert these properties to residential use. The scope of the exemptions has been extended to include public houses.

The town centre first policy was launched in February 2022 to tackle vacancy and dereliction and breathe new life into our towns. Town regeneration officers have been appointed and 26 town centre first plans, produced by town teams, were launched at the national town centre first day on 28 February 2024. Additional funding has been announced for a new round of TCF plans and a range of national and local support structures have been established.

Regarding the area of commercial vacancy, while measures under the town centre first policy will go towards enabling towns to tackle commercial vacancy, my Department has also convened a working group to assess and make recommendations related to the potential for the development of vacant commercial properties for housing. It is anticipated the working group will submit recommendations to the Minister in quarter 2 of 2024.

Building on the programme for Government, Housing for All sets out a suite of measures to address vacancy and make efficient use of our existing building stock in urban and rural areas. The vacant property refurbishment grant was launched by my Department in July 2022. It provides support of up to €50,000 for the refurbishment of vacant properties, including over the shop residential units.

A further €20,000 is available where the property is derelict. Uptake and feedback on the grant have been very positive, with more than 6,700 applications received and more than 3,800 applications approved. Grants are now being paid out as work is being completed. I see this as I travel around the country.

It is amazing to see some of the beautiful premises being brought back into use. To support the bringing of underused properties back into use, my Department announced funding of €150 million for local authorities under the urban regeneration development fund, URDF. This is specifically to acquire long-term vacant or derelict buildings, residential and commercial, in URDF eligible cities and towns for use or sale. This funding will also support the compulsory purchase order, CPO, activation programme which my Department launched in April 2023. An activation programme requires a proactive and systematic approach by local authorities, including the use of powers to acquire compulsorily unused and underused properties and bring them back into use. An overall target of 4,000 has been set for properties to enter the programme in 2023.

Senator Róisín Garvey

While it is not the fault of the Minister of State, the lines from the Department do not answer the question. They are telling me things I already know. It is an insult to somebody who is passionate about this and fought for it in the programme for Government to have a civil servant tell me stuff I already know. I know about the Croí Cónaithe scheme and the CPO grant, which resulted in two houses being bought in County Clare. The reply is not good enough in a housing crisis.

I specifically asked what was being done to help people. The regulations should be simplified so that people can live above a shop. There is talk of wanting to bring commercial vacancies down. The best way to do that is to make it easier to live above a shop. The answer I have been given is a waste of time. The Department did not answer my question, which could not be more specific. Specifically, what are we doing about being able to live above a shop so that it is commercially viable to have a place downstairs and to live upstairs? Whether the building is owned or rented, if there is dual purpose accommodation we can help sort thousands of buildings all over this country and bring life back into towns. The answer provided is an insult. I already know all the information it tells me.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

The one-stop shop idea is a good one. Separately this year, through the Heritage Council, we are funding the roll-out of architectural conservation officers in counties that do not have them. That is hugely important because these staff play a vital role in animating many of these properties back into use.

The living city initiative, which focused on issues with accessibility, was a significant learning experience. Many premises with a shop at ground-floor level do not have a separate door into the upstairs or residential part of the building. Looking at those opportunities on a town-by-town basis and given the resources being put into local authorities, particularly vacancy officers, there is an opportunity to try to work with premises owners or people who are considering buying a premises, so they can bring them into full occupancy. As the Senator said, retail is changing dramatically, to the point where retail centres are moving out to the periphery. We should look at that full approach.

A fantastic piece of work was done by Alison Harvey who led the collaborative town centre health checks. It got all the data people were looking for in the participating towns, including Sligo, Dundalk, Tipperary town and other places. It provided data on vacancy rates both in retail and above-shop premises. We need that data. I agree with Senator Garvey and I will take back to the Department her call for a much more integrated approach to support people buying properties and encourage local authorities to be leaders in this by buying premises in town centres that they can reuse for social housing.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State for taking Commencement Matters this afternoon. We know he is busy and, as always, we appreciate his time. He is a frequent visitor to the House.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 1.49 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 1.49 p.m. and resumed at 2 p.m.