We will wait for the Minister. In the meantime, I apologise that I forgot to acknowledge the presence of my party colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, in the Gallery. I thank him for being here for my election. I also thank former Senator, Catherine Noone, for being here today.
EU-UK Youth Experience Scheme: Motion
I move:
That Seanad Éireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion under Protocol No. 21 on the position of the United Kingdom and Ireland in respect of the area of freedom, security and justice annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, to take part in the adoption and application of the following proposed measure:
Council Decision authorising the opening of negotiations for an agreement between the European Union and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on a Youth Experience Scheme,
a copy of which was laid before Seanad Éireann on 10th February, 2025.
Ar dtús báire, déanaim comhghairdeas leis an Leas-Chathaoirleach as a hoifig nua. Is é sin mo chéad uair sa Seanad i gcomhair díospóireachta. Is mór an onóir dom a bheith anseo mar Aire Cirt agus Dlí. Déanaim comhghairdeas freisin le gach Seanadóir atá anseo inniu.
This is my first time before Seanad Éireann speaking as Minister for justice, home affairs and migration. In fact, it is my first time speaking before Seanad Éireann.
First, I congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her election. I commiserate with Senator Flynn in respect of putting herself forward for the position and not succeeding on this occasion. As we all know in politics, there is always another day.
Before dealing with the motion before the Seanad, I am very conscious that, as Minister for Justice, I will be frequently before Seanad Éireann but, hopefully, not as frequently as other Ministers for Justice were here. Sometimes when I think of the job of Minister for Justice I think of a former Minister, Charlie Flanagan, who spent many an occasion here in respect of one piece of legislation.
The Judicial Appointments Bill.
It was all Senator Boyhan's fault.
I greatly respect this House and I recognise that we probably get a higher level of deliberation and reflection on legislation here. That has been seen before on many Bills that have come before the Seanad. I will listen and take into account everything that is said by Senators. I respect the mandate they have and the constitutional position of this House. If Members feel that I am not complying with that commitment or deviating in some way from it, I know and hope they will tell me so.
The reason I am here is that I am seeking the permission and the vote of Seanad Éireann to allow Ireland to opt in to an EU decision that was made and finalised last December. I refer to an EU decision that permits the EU to commence negotiations with the United Kingdom in respect of the establishment of what is referred to as a youth experience scheme. I am not asking for the approval of this House today to vote in favour of that scheme. All I ask is that the Seanad give Ireland the permission to become party to those negotiations between the EU and the UK.
I ask Senators to allow me to do that because the decision that was finalised by the European Union last December comes under the freedom, security and justice section of the Union. For that reason, Ireland is required to opt in to it. It is what is referred to as an opportunity for us to use our Protocol 21 of the Treaty of the European Union to opt in to a particular aspect of the Union's work. This is something we should most certainly opt in to. I do not think there are any downsides to us doing so, but there are very considerable downsides if we do not.
All Members of this House are probably aware of the purpose of the youth experience scheme, which arises from the consequences of Brexit. It is hoped that if this scheme is put in place and there is agreement between the UK and the EU, it will mean that young people between the ages of 18 and 30 will be able to travel between European Union countries and the UK in order to study and work or to engage in cultural experiences. It is something that many people in this House will have experienced when they were growing up, in that they went abroad to other countries to work. We will all agree that it is an invaluable experience. It is a great opportunity for young people to experience other cultures and see the differences and diversity in other countries. It is part of the educational and development prospects that people have in those important years of their lives.
We in Ireland are in the fortunate position of having the common travel area, which means Irish citizens are permitted to travel to the UK to engage in all of the activities I have spoken about, be they cultural, for work or for the purposes of other student experiences. However, since Brexit people from other EU countries no longer have the opportunity to travel to the UK to experience all the great things that exist in the UK. Similarly - I am sure we all know this from our friends in Britain - younger people in Britain do not have the opportunity to go to EU countries in the same way as they did prior to Brexit under Erasmus schemes or co-operation schemes between two countries.
There is a real benefit, even though it may not benefit us directly, in us trying to encourage this agreement. It is to the benefit of people in European Union countries and of people in the UK. We should encourage it and be seen to encourage it.
What is the rationale for Ireland opting in to the process? One of the main reasons we should opt in is that the common travel area is a very important aspect of our relationship with the United Kingdom. Sometimes it is forgotten, but the common travel area only benefits citizens. It is for the benefit of UK citizens and Irish citizens. It allows us to move to and fro. It is important that we are a party to the EU negotiations with the UK so that there is no doubt or uncertainty about the importance of the common travel area. We do not want to find an agreement being put in place between the UK and the EU that does not recognise the common travel area or that undermines it in some respect. That is the first reason we need to be party to these negotiations.
Second, it is extremely important for us that there is a stronger relationship between the UK and the EU than the one that exists at present. Regrettably - I am not going to get into the rights or wrongs of Brexit - one point on which there is no ambiguity is that Brexit damaged the relationship that existed between the United Kingdom Government and governments within the European Union. As a country that has a very close relationship with the UK and European Union countries, we need to play a role in trying to ensure we can bring that relationship closer and improve it as well.
Senators will be well aware that this issue is not going to be very contentious in this House. When I debated it in the Dáil, all parties and speakers were in favour of it. Where it is likely that there will be some political contention and dispute - if there is an agreement or in the making of the agreement - is within the United Kingdom.
As we aware, the free movement of people has become a politically tense issue in the UK. There is concern that when this issue comes to be discussed that the merits of it - namely, the ability of young people to experience different cultures - will be lost behind the debate on the free movement of individuals.
It is important to emphasise that if this scheme is approved and there is an agreement between the UK and EU, it does not provide for free movement. It is not a situation where people can move from EU countries to the UK to commence work and to stay there. As Senators will be aware, when they look at the proposal for the scheme, that it is clearly designed to be of benefit to people aged between 18 and 30 and to be what is referred to as a "youth experience scheme".
It is interesting that during Dáil debate, I was notified that this scheme was originally referred to as the "youth migration scheme". Significant concerns were expressed in the UK and the name was changed to the "youth experience scheme". Notwithstanding that - and I know it is a matter for the UK Government in how it proposes to deal with this - it is very much in our interests to opt into it.
There has been a significant improvement in relations between Ireland and the UK in recent years. I do not want to get involved in British politics but certainly Prime Minister Starmer seems to be very keen to improve relationships, not just with Ireland but also with other EU countries. We can recognise in this House the difficulty he may have and it is important we try to facilitate the British Government gaining closer arrangements with the European Union in general and European Union member states in particular.
One of the consequences of Brexit is that opportunities we and European Union countries have had to engage with the UK have been lost. They are a big loss to us. I am sure Senator McDowell will agree on this. I recently attended my first meeting of the Justice and Home Affairs Ministers in Warsaw and when issues such as harmonisation of the admissibility of evidence in criminal proceedings were discussed, it would have been of great benefit to have a representative of the British Government there. Alas, that was not to be. In this country, we do have an obligation, however, to do what we can to improve relations between the EU and UK and agreeing to allow Ireland to opt into this negotiation would be part of that.
I thank the Minister for his statement. I now open up the floor, beginning with Senator Clifford-Lee.
Congratulations to the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her election. I had the great fortune of knowing Tras Honan. She was a mighty woman and it is fantastic that we have one of her successors among us. I know the Senator's rate of work and how fair and dedicated she is to the job. I look forward to working with her. It is a testament to her tenacity and hard work over the years that she is in this position. I hope she enjoys today as it is a big day for her.
The Minister is very welcome on his first visit to the Seanad as Minister for Justice. He has hit the ground running and we in Fianna Fáil are very proud of the pace of work he has set for himself and the confidence he is instilling within his office. People feel he is on their side. As somebody who is out and about in my constituency talking to people, it is really good that they know there are more gardaí being recruited. There is a lot of work there and we know the Minister is going to do a very good job. I look forward to working with him. He has considerable experience as a Dublin city councillor and as a TD as well as from his professional background as a lawyer. The Minister is very well equipped for this job and no doubt many challenges lie ahead.
This is one of the easier matters for the Minister to come to the House with because we all agree it is very worthwhile. It might be politically difficult in other quarters down the line but we can all see the benefits to our opting into this scheme. Even though it does not have a material difference on the face of it, as the Minister outlined, there are risks involved if we are not at the negotiating table. There is a risk our common travel area with the UK, which we know is very important, could be undermined. I am fully supportive of this and I think most parties will be too.
The avenues for young people to embark on exchanges, to work and to learn about each other have been considerably narrowed since Brexit. If we look back to the origins of the EU, the reason it was established was to create better understanding, co-operation and to avoid war. In the very difficult times we are living in, anything that can help promote peace, prosperity, understanding, cultural exchange or education can only be welcomed. I am very happy to speak on behalf of the Fianna Fáil group and I fully support this motion.
I thank Senator Clifford-Lee for her contribution. I call Senator Ahearn next, whom I believe is sharing time with Senator Lynch. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I will share time with Senator Lynch if that is agreeable to the House. I probably will not need all the time.
First, I congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her election success and I wish her well. As others have stated, she will be a very fair and balanced Leas-Chathaoirleach. She has huge experience in this Chamber and I know she will work extremely hard on behalf of all Senators.
I welcome the Minister to the Chamber for the first time. As Senator Clifford-Lee said, I suspect this will be one of his easier visits to either Chamber. The Minister knows well that in his role he will be called on to come here or to go to the Lower House quite often but I know he takes the role and responsibility very seriously. He has huge respect for this Chamber and that is acknowledged and appreciated. We look forward to working with him over the next five years.
As previously stated, this is a fairly easy piece of legislation. We nearly take for granted in this country the opportunities we have for free movement across the European Union and the advantages that brings. What the Minister is asking us to do here today has no impact on us because we have a common travel area with the UK which predates our joining the European Union. It is important, however, that we are part of that negotiation with all EU countries in terms of working with the UK. We have a special bond with the UK and it is of benefit to all European countries that we are part of that negotiation because of our close relationship with our UK counterparts.
In his contribution, the Minister said this is not a free movement of people because in the context of things in the UK, that can be skewed into something it is not. The scheme is for people aged between 18 and 30, and from my reading of it, it is for a minimum of one year to a maximum of three years. It is to avail of those same opportunities and advantages people have in European countries to come to the UK, whether that is for work, college or something else. There is an essence of irony - I know the Minister does not want to touch on Brexit - that we are trying to provide those opportunities to the UK despite it having democratically voted against being a member of the European Union. We are trying to give them the opportunity to have some of the good aspects of membership to the European Union. From a diplomatic perspective, however, it is important, particularly for the citizens and youth of the UK, to have the opportunity to travel to other countries.
This is quite a straight forward request from the Minister and as a Fine Gael Party member and as part of the Government side, we support it and wish the Minister well with it.
I congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her appointment. It is well deserved and I look forward to working with her in the term ahead. I also welcome the Minister to the Chamber. I wish to fully support this motion seeking to open negotiations for an EU-UK agreement on a youth experience scheme.
While Brexit has done untold damage to the future of young people across the UK, this proposed scheme is a crucial opportunity to strengthen the ties between young people in Europe and the UK, creating new pathways for cultural exchange, education and employment. While we in Ireland have fortunately benefitted from the common travel area with the UK, in a post-Brexit world, the same cannot be said for the rest of the EU. This proposed scheme provides an innovative way to deal with the mobility barriers which currently exist for young people in the UK and the rest of Europe, respectively.
This proposal has conditions, as the Minister has outlined, in that it applies to people between the ages and 18 to 30 and allows them to work, live or go to college in their destination country for up to three years. It also allows grounds for refusal of entry. I understand the proposal would not replicate the freedom-of-movement principle that existed before Brexit, and that it would also be on a without-prejudice basis in respect of our common travel area.
As a country with a unique relationship with both the UK and the EU, Ireland has a responsibility, and an opportunity, to ensure young people do not lose access to the benefits of mobility and exchange. A structured youth mobility scheme such as the one under discussion would allow young people to study in world-class institutions, access new job markets and develop skills that will benefit their own economies in the long term. At a time when global challenges demand international co-operation, this initiative would to help foster understanding and shared progress between the UK and the EU.
Opting into these negotiations reinforces Ireland's position as a bridge between the EU and the UK. It shows our commitment to keeping strong connections despite political shifts and ensures young people remain at the heart of our relationship with Britain and the EU. This is about shaping a future in which young people can thrive in a more connected and dynamic Europe.
By supporting this initiative, we are investing in our future leaders and entrepreneurs. We are ensuring that the next generation has the same opportunities that previous generations enjoyed. I strongly believe that opening negotiations on the implementation of this scheme are a step in the right direction, and it is important that we support it.
I congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on taking up her new position. I am delighted to hear she will be working with everyone on a cross-party basis. I welcome the Minister.
I strongly support the EU–UK scheme. Naturally, there will be many benefits for Ireland. If we opt in, it will benefit the students of the UK equally. Travel and cultural exchanges enrich both sides. The scheme would allow easier access for exchange programmes, improved pathways for young professionals to work across the border, and enhanced collaboration between both Irish and UK businesses through talent exchange, which is needed in many places. It would also benefit beyond that, both socially and economically. Given the skills shortages in many sectors in Ireland and the UK, the agreement could help to meet the demand on facilities that are currently under-resourced and understaffed. It would encourage young people to see a different culture and live a different life, and boost tourism for both economies. Ireland, as the only EU country sharing a land border with the UK, has a vested interested in ensuring relations remain strong and productive.
As Senator Lynch and other Senators mentioned, the scheme gives us a seat at the table. If we opted in, we would not be committing to anything yet, but it would mean we would have a seat at the table and could start to make decisions instead of having decisions in which we do not have a say being made for us.
A key priority concerns the fact that the scheme plays a role in reinforcing our close relationship with the UK, as other Senators have mentioned. The people in the north of Ireland voted to remain in the EU but were taken out against their wishes. While the protocol agreement has mitigated some of the damage Brexit has done to the island of Ireland, trade challenges will continue for the people who live north of the Border. Therefore, we must make it our duty in the Oireachtas to speak up for their interests and ensure the principles of the Good Friday Agreement are understood and adhered to in any new negotiations between the EU and the British Government.
Given the circumstances with the Border, the unique position of Northern Ireland and the common travel area, the priority must be around Irish interests, the special position of the North and Irish sovereignty. The common travel area with Britain presents unique challenges in dealing with migration-related issues. For us to deal with these challenges effectively, Ireland, as an EU state that is also part of the common travel area with Britain, must pursue bilateral agreements with the UK. Parallel legislation is needed to provide objectives and clear criteria for determining the potential responsibility of processing international protection applications between both states. Furthermore, effective immigration management at ports and airports will also be critical.
This proposal is one that Ireland should not only support but also champion. We have an obligation to our young people. They are not just the future; they are equally the present. We must ensure they have access to the best opportunities available. Sinn Féin supports the motion.
I congratulate Senator Byrne on her election to the job of Leas-Chathaoirleach. I hope she enjoys it. It is well deserved.
I particularly want to thank the Minister. We know each other for a long time and I know his extended family for a long time. It is great to see him in the chair as Minister for justice and home affairs. Clearly, he has vast experience and knowledge. It is great that we have someone from Dublin in the role, particularly given the enormous challenges in our city. We have challenges everywhere but enormous ones in Dublin. I genuinely wish the Minister well and know he will do an excellent job.
Today the motion before the Seanad is on whether it approves "authorising the opening of negotiations for an agreement between the European Union and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland on a Youth Experience Scheme", a copy of which was laid before the Seanad on 10 February 2025. I have taken the time to consider it and also to examine the debate on it in the Dáil. I very much hear what the Minister is saying, which is that there was clearly no dissension among the four or five speakers. That is all there were. However, it is worth pointing out some of the background to this issue. Therefore, I took the time to examine the library reports in Westminster and see some of the debate on the other side of the water on this matter. I want to share some of the points with Senators today because we need to be conscious of them.
Like Senator Clifford-Lee, I have been sitting as a member of the British–Irish Parliamentary Assembly. We have a very strong, respectful working relationship with all its members. From that, you learn about other experiences and other dimensions of the North–South arrangements and those concerning Great Britain. I refer to the whole relationship, which is fundamentally important to both Britain and Ireland.
The European Commission formally proposed that the EU seek to negotiate a youth mobility scheme with the United kingdom in April 2024. The Commission had proposed to the EU Council that negotiations be opened with the UK on engagement to facilitate a youth mobility scheme. Such an agreement would make it easier for EU and UK citizens to study, work and live in the UK and the EU, respectively. The withdrawal of the UK from the EU has resulted in decreased mobility between the two. That is a fact. It has particularly affected the opportunities of young people who want to experience life on the other side of the channel and to benefit from youth culture, education, research and training exchanges. The proposal seeks to address, in an innovative way, the main barriers to mobility young people experience today and create the right of young people to travel more easily from the EU to the UK, and vice versa, and for a longer period, subject, of course, to conditions.
The European Commission proposal was rejected by the then Conservative government. Mr. Sunak rejected the offer of a youth mobility scheme between the EU and UK, for a number of reasons. The UK Labour Party, then in opposition, also turned down the European Commission's proposals, which would have allowed young Britons to live, study and work in the EU. The UK Labour Party said the youth mobility schemes were synonymous with "the freedom of movement". The now Labour Government has reiterated that it has no plans for a youth mobility scheme with the EU and will not return to UK–EU freedom of movement.
Reports at the end of 2024 indicated the EU was seeking to refine the proposal as a youth experience scheme, as the Minister touched on, or a cultural exchange programme. When you delve into that, another series of questions emerges. In evidence to the House of Lords European Affairs Committee in December 2024, just three months ago, the UK Minister for EU relations, Nick Thomas–Symonds, said it was up to the EU to finalise any proposals it wanted to place on the table, and that the UK's response would depend precisely on what was meant by an EU youth mobility scheme.
Progress will require a mindset that focuses on how to improve relationships, not on re-fighting the old Brexit battles. For many in Westminster, the language of free movement seems to present major problems and is exceptionally sensitive. It is important that the Minister touched on that point.
I looked at a statement that was issued when the Tánaiste was Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science and that is on the Government website. The Minister spoke about finalising arrangements with Northern Ireland in terms of the education institutions. He said that during the UK withdrawal from the EU, the loss of access to the EU’s Erasmus+ education programme was highlighted by civic society as a major concern for current and potential students and staff of higher education institutions in Northern Ireland. The Government rightly agreed to put arrangements in place to maintain access for Northern Irish education students to mobility across Europe. This fund fulfils that commitment so long as the fund is in place. Therefore, and particularly closer to home, we need to look at the funding that facilitates the movement of our people on both sides of this island. While the funding was directed to mobility access to Europe, we should not lose sight of the fact there is a major North-South dimension given that more than 20% of those taking part in Ireland now seek internships and similar placements in financial services and the IFSC, with which the Minister will be familiar.
Some people in the UK are trying to make the case for bilateral deals but that is not European solidarity in its best form. We cannot permit, support or agree with the picking off of various member states for different deals. However, looking at the reports and debates in Westminster, it is clear that is an option the British Government wants to pursue. Pursuing an agenda of individual deals with one member state against another at any time is unacceptable, as far as I am concerned. EU solidarity, equal treatment and the equal opportunities of all member states are key to cohesion and something that we must fight hard for in any negotiations. EU member states need to maintain a united front in all talks with the British Government. The British Government might not be interested in an equal deal with each member state, hence its argument on the option of bilateral deals and bilateral options. We need to firmly rule them out.
I support the motion and I support the work of the Minister. As he said clearly, this is just to enter into negotiations. I thank him for coming to the House and for recognising the importance of both the Dáil and Seanad in these matters. I ask that he would keep us informed on a regular basis as this matter progresses.
I congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her appointment. Although I had no hand, act or part in it, nothing gives me greater pleasure than to see her where she is at the moment.
I welcome the Minister as a colleague and a friend, and as a person in whom I have the greatest confidence that his period as Minister will be effective and carried out with tremendous skill, and also that he will bring the public with him in the difficult task he has.
As he said, this particular motion has no downside. We are simply giving Ireland the right to be in on the negotiation process for a scheme which, depending on its content, we largely have for ourselves in any event. There are a number of points that I want to make. As Senator Boyhan just said, the almost allergic reaction of the British establishment to facilitating young people moving across from the European Union countries to the United Kingdom is very difficult to understand. If they really thought that every other country in Europe had the same approach to their young people coming to experience life in Spain, France, Germany or elsewhere, and if they heard people in their parliaments saying that this was absolutely unacceptable, they would pause and think why is this so. It is the migration issue into England that caused so much difficulty for the Tories, when they were in office, and still causes, to an extent, for the Starmer Labour Government.
I have no doubt that attitudes are changing in the United Kingdom. We live in a Trump-Vance world now and it is very difficult to work out precisely how the pressures and policies exerted from America are going to reflect the EU-UK relationship, and how the rise of the Reform Party in Britain is going to change attitudes in the United Kingdom and tie down the Labour Party to a position of conservatism on the subject of youth mobility. On the other hand, if we look at the current situation, opinion poll after opinion poll shows that 58% of voters in the United Kingdom believe that Brexit was a mistake. Working back from that, we cannot say that Brexit is going to be reversed in the foreseeable future. Even the Liberal Democrats, who favour that, are afraid to actually articulate it for want of being described as betrayers of the Brexit referendum. However, I have no doubt that attitudes are changing. The particular thing about attitudes in the United Kingdom towards Brexit is that it is the younger generation that is, in retrospect, the most hostile to the whole Brexit enterprise. I think they instinctively feel it was a mistake to cut themselves off from the European Union.
The Minister mentioned attending a Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting and feeling the absence of the UK Ministers there. That is a view I very much endorse and share with him. Many is the time that I was there and I saw that Ireland and the United Kingdom had a unique view which we shared and implemented. We had a number of advantages. We had the advantage that a lot of research was done by the civil service in Britain, which was of huge assistance to us in articulating our points of view. I once attended a committee of the House of Lords to be examined on the issue of certain opt-ins in regard to Schengen matters, and it was like going into an oral examination in Oxford or Cambridge. These peers really knew their stuff and I was lucky to escape without letting myself down intellectually, such was the standard of their analysis. The point I am making is that we are at a loss in Europe due to the absence of the United Kingdom.
The Minister mentioned the particular topic that inspired that reflection on his part, which was admissibility of evidence in certain matters. That brings me to one point that I want to make without complicating this evening’s debate. If there is such a proposal there, nobody in these Houses except the Minister knows about it. I am just making that point. Nobody knows what they are cooking up next and the reason we do not know what they are cooking up in Europe is that this House and the other House - the Houses of the Oireachtas - have not properly engaged with the whole European legislative process. Our committees really are not keeping an eye on what is coming down the tracks. They are not analysing what is happening at a European level.
They are not doing what used to happen in Britain, where, if there was a proposal for a particular measure, the Home Office would obtain research by British academics as to the implications of the particular proposal. We are not doing any of that. None of that is happening in Ireland. We do not have a mature relationship with the European legislative process. I wish the Minister well, but I reiterate the point that until he mentioned it here today, I had never heard of this proposal. As far as I know, nobody else in these Houses had ever heard of it either.
When I held the Minster's position, we had a briefing session for the justice committee. It was an innovation, prior to going to a Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting, to discuss the upcoming agenda with the justice committee. I prepared greatly for those meetings. If, say, drugs were on the agenda, we just had a discussion on the drugs problems in Dublin. There was no interest from the committee about what was being discussed at the EU level.
The possibility of working is mentioned. I do not know how that will go down with either the Labour Party or the Tories in England. We must be careful, and recent events probably reinforce this view, about language schools offering educational courses but people really using them as a licence to work in Ireland and hold a job with, for example, Deliveroo. There are many jobs which, to be honest, Irish people will not do. We should not be naive, however. Student working rights, such as Irish students had under J1 visa arrangements in America, cause problems for the British Government.
With those few reflections, I welcome the Minister and thank him for his kind remarks about the Seanad. I wish him well in the next five years.
I thank the Senator. I noticed that the Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, had some guests in the Gallery. They have just left but I acknowledge their presence.
I drove them away.
I now call the Minister.
I thank Senators for their kind reception and illuminating comments. I agree with Senator Clifford-Lee. This proposal is an easier task that I have here at the outset of my career appearing before the Seanad. I must say, however, that it could be a consequential one. If we find ourselves in a situation a number of years from now whereby an agreement is in place for a youth scheme between the EU and the UK, it would be an important development for the EU and the UK. We will have played a part in that.
I also agree with Senator Ahearn. I note the irony of the UK position. The Senator was correct to state that we have a special bond with the UK. We have a complicated history, but we certainly have a special bond. That puts us in an important position when it comes to trying to broker an agreement between the UK and the EU.
Senator Lynch was correct to identify that Ireland can be a bridge between the EU and the UK. This is an innovative method of trying to deal with the mobility barriers that have been put up. I am conscious that the discussion has centred on the understanding that the programme may operate for between one and three years, but that is to be negotiated. Perhaps after negotiations, it will be limited to a year or less. We need to be a part of the negotiations.
Senator Ryan correctly highlighted the considerable benefits for tourism and businesses that will obtain under this scheme. I though the Senator made a very good point. I am conscious of the challenges that are faced by people north of the Border. The Senator also identified a more complicated issue in respect of the challenges that migration can have for dealing with the common travel area. That is an issue that will have to be considered and reflected upon on another occasion.
I thank Senator Boyhan for his kind words. We go back a long way. One of the benefits of being in this House is that you hear different things here than you hear in Dáil Éireann. I commend the Senator for doing that extra piece of research in respect of what was being debated in the UK Parliament. In the run-up to the most recent election, the Conservative Party ran away from anything that looked like it may involve freedom of movement. The loss of the Erasmus scheme was a terrible loss to young people in the UK. The Irish Government obviously tried to put in place measures to facilitate people in the North of Ireland. I agree that we should not be doing bilateral deals. We are members of the EU and the deals should be between the EU and the UK. There should not be individual deals between EU countries and the UK. In fairness, during the Brexit negotiations, the EU countries stood by us. There was many a time when people thought we were going to be dumped and forgotten about for political convenience but that did not happen. As well as having great affection for, and bonds with, the UK, we also have great affection for, and bonds with, the EU. It stood by us at a time of considerable need.
I thank Senator McDowell for his kind words. I note what he says about the allergic reaction of some in the UK to the mention of the phrase "freedom of movement". The Senator was right to identify that young people in the UK want to be able to go abroad to other European countries. There is a great history and tradition of people from England, Scotland and Wales being able to go on to France, Italy and eastern Europe to experience the great and different cultures of those countries.
I note what the Senator said about the Commission proposal in respect of the harmonisation of the admissibility of evidence in criminal proceedings that was mentioned at the meeting in Warsaw. I spoke against the proposal. It is only a proposal and there is nothing definitive yet. The Senator will be glad to hear that immediately after I spoke, the German Minister agreed with what I said. A series of other countries are now writing to express their opposition to what would be an unnecessary intervention by the EU in an area that will not be improved by harmonisation.
I hope my first appearance before the Seanad has been okay. I again congratulate the Leas-Chathaoirleach on her election. It has been a pleasure to be here. I know I will be back in the Seanad again but probably not at a time when there is the level of agreement among the House that there has been today. No matter how contentious things get, I want Members to know that I will always listen to this House, as I will to the Lower House. It is only through listening to people who have been elected that we can call ourselves a functioning democratic society. We need to take into account the views of all people who are elected to both Houses. I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach.
I thank the Minister, who is welcome here anytime. I know he is open to listening to and working with people. I again congratulate him.
Question put and agreed to.
When is it proposed to sit again?
Nest Tuesday at 2.30 p.m.
Is that agreed? Agreed.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar athló ar 5.48 p.m. go dtí 2.30 p.m., Dé Máirt, an 25 Feabhra 2025.
The Seanad adjourned at 5.48 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 25 February 2025.