We are meeting to discuss the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. Revised Estimates will be discussed by the committee with the Minister in a fortnight. I propose that the Minister should have eight minutes to make an opening statement while the main Opposition spokespersons should have five minutes with ten remaining for other members. Is that agreed? Agreed. I welcome the Minister and his officials.
Estimates for Public Services, 2001.
Vote 31 - Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (Supplementary).
I apologise for my discourtesy to the committee by arriving late. I was stuck in traffic.
The Minister should get a Mini as his colleague was advocating in the House last night. He sought a reduction in the use of large cars.
The school milk scheme was introduced to supply milk to children of primary and nursery school age and has worked very well for almost 20 years. It has a high profile among the schoolgoing population and encourages a healthy habit of milk consumption. Ireland has been supportive of the scheme and I am anxious to ensure we continue to have the same level of support for the future. Up to now the scheme which provides milk at a subsidised price for children in primary schools has been funded in total from the EU budget.
In 1999 an evaluation of the scheme was undertaken on behalf of the European Commission which proposed that the measure should be co-financed in future. The Council of Agriculture Ministers agreed in July 2000 that the scheme would operate on an altered basis from 1 January 2001. It was decided that EU funding would be at the level of 75%, reduced from 95%, and that additional funding could be provided by member states on a voluntary basis from their Exchequers.
While the option of levying the trade is available it is doubtful if suppliers would remain in the scheme in such circumstances. Another possibility was that the additional cost to school pupils would be passed on by seeking an increase in the maximum price of 12p per carton of school milk.
The usage of the scheme in Ireland is relatively high compared with the European average with an uptake of approximately 20% of the schoolgoing population. Almost 90,000 pupils in 2,600 schools participate in the scheme on which the total spend is just over £1 million per annum. The cost to the Exchequer therefore to supplement the cost is £300,000 per annum. The Supplementary Estimate relates to the additional cost.
It is important to support this measure by supplementing the EU funding of the scheme to ensure the overall level of support can be maintained because of the importance of the scheme in promoting milk consumption at an early age. The educational and nutritional aspects of the scheme cannot be underestimated. The scheme is good value for money and it is important that it continues at least at the present level of participation. I hope it will encourage the next generation to enjoy the benefits that dairy milk consumption bestows and that access to school milk will encourage a healthy habit that will remain with children. The scheme extends to low fat milk, yoghurt and other products. It is therefore very desirable.
It is a pity the number of pupils participating in the scheme cannot be increased but some schools and organisations are better at supporting it than others. Some dairies which are known to Deputy Sheehan also provide refrigeration systems because during the summer children do not like to drink lukewarm milk or yoghurts. They want them nice and chilled. I strongly support the scheme.
I thank the Minister for bringing the Supplementary Estimate before the committee. We understand the reason he was delayed as it happens to us all. I thought for a moment he was paying me back for a delay I imposed on him this morning which was also due to traffic.
We all support the continuation of the scheme. School milk schemes have been a feature of the EU system for many years although we should not get too virtuous about them because they were originally introduced as a means of contributing to the disposal of surplus milk in the European Union. If we can avail of the scheme while serving the needs of the market so much the better. This is an example of such a scheme.
The Minister mentioned the EU funding basis has been changed. It is now 75% of the cost, not 95%. He stated an option of levying the trade might be available but he is right that it is doubtful suppliers would remain in the scheme in such circumstances. He said another possibility was that the additional cost to school pupils could be passed on by seeking an increase in the maximum price of 12p per carton but did not outline what, if any, measure will be taken. Will the State pick up the entire tab for the change or will the children bear the extra cost in terms of the price per carton?
While our usage is relatively high compared to other countries there is still only an uptake of approximately 20% among the schoolgoing population. The Minister said it costs £1 million to provide for 90,000 pupils. This works out at an average cost of £11 per head per annum which is a small sum. Is there any way an increase in the take-up of the scheme could be encouraged? I do not know what is the distribution of the pupils and the 2,600 schools that participate but many schools do not avail of the scheme and there might be cause to fear that the diets of their pupils are not entirely adequate. There is probably a good number of schools in disadvantaged areas to which the scheme would be of advantage nutritionally to the children if they could participate. Is there any possibility of increasing the uptake in these areas to the benefit of the children? In some areas children arrive at school without having had much of a breakfast and such a scheme could help to fill the nutritional gap.
Why is the Supplementary Estimate for a token amount when the Minister is able to put a figure on the extra cost? The Minister has said the cost to the Exchequer of supplementing the scheme will be about £300,000 per annum and yet he has chosen to use the device of adding a token amount to the Estimate to cover this figure. If we know the estimated cost, why is it not included in the Estimate at this stage?
I wholeheartedly welcome the fact that the Minister has brought this Supplementary Estimate before us today. My Labour Party colleagues and I fully support the continuation and expansion of this scheme. I am disappointed with the level of uptake. Many schools are classified as disadvantaged according to various criteria. It should be possible to target these schools to increase uptake which, as Deputy Dukes has said, is only about 20%.
It is important that we promote the consumption of milk at the subsidised rate. I advocate devising methods to increase the uptake of the scheme. What are the main factors influencing the current distribution and usage profile of the various schools? Have schools been notified that the scheme is available? What level of extra administration does that impose on schools and the Department? What can be done to promote and encourage the further utilisation and expansion of the scheme? Are there plans for a promotional effort, perhaps in conjunction with the Department of Education and Science, to ensure that the scheme becomes available to the maximum number of pupils?
As well as the nutritional benefits associated with milk, its calcium content plays an important role in teeth and bone formation at a tender age. There are a number of aspects to this but from the health, education and socio-economic viewpoint, greater utilisation can be made of the scheme. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, might not approve but I hope the Minister will return with a bigger Estimate for a very worthwhile scheme. Deputy Dukes and other economists would appreciate a cost benefit analysis of this scheme. Any evaluation of it would show a very positive balance.
I congratulate the Minister on his plans to continue the scheme. Is he satisfied that we have a good uptake of the scheme in our own constituency of Cork south-west. I do not have my ear to the ground on the issue but I expect there is room for improvement. The Minister states that use of the scheme in Ireland, at20%, is relatively high compared with the European average. Is it correct to assume that less than 20% of school pupils in other European countries are availing of the scheme?
My colleague, Deputy Dukes, has broken down the costs and arrived at a figure of £11 per pupil per year. Given that there are 40 school weeks in the year, the cost when broken down further is less than 6p per day for the five-day school week. That is a very small amount of money. How much milk is used per pupil?
The Minister also mentioned yoghurt. Is yoghurt available under the scheme to pupils who do not like milk? Is there anything that we could do to make the scheme more attractive because it seems that only schools in urban areas are availing of it? Are the Goleen, Lissagriffin and Kilcrohane national schools availing of the scheme? Is it possible they have not heard of it? We will have to embark on a promotional campaign if we want to encourage greater participation in the scheme.
This committee will have to go on a study tour——
We will adopt a joint approach.
I forgot to mention that a campaign would be important to the Minister given that he promoted a very successful dairy group, Clona limited, in west Cork which has forged ahead in leaps and bounds.
I welcome the decision to continue the scheme. I declare an interest in this matter as holder of an interest in a dairy farm that produces liquid milk. One of the benefits of the scheme on its introduction was not only its promotion of the use of milk among children from an early age, but its major health benefits for children, the future generation.
I do not doubt the Minister's word when he states that uptake, at 20%, is better than in other European countries but 20% is very poor. I ask the Minister to give us a run down of the areas where uptake is highest? Are these rural or disadvantaged areas for example? As previous speakers have said, children from disadvantaged backgrounds often arrive at school having eaten little or no breakfast. We should ensure, using whatever means necessary, that schools like these in both urban and rural areas are covered by the scheme.
I welcome the Minister's commitment to the scheme. I suggest that we look at means of promoting it among the co-operatives and dairies. Having been on the board of one co-operative for several years, I inform members that there was some resistance to the scheme due to the amount of red tape that had to be overcome. Perhaps that could be simplified and the scheme better promoted. That would prove a cheaper means of promoting consumption than some of the others, notably television, that have been mentioned.
I too welcome the continuation of this popular scheme. In recent years it has, unfortunately, come up against fizzy drinks and potato crisps which are more popular than milk in many schools. The subject reminds me of the good old days when we got hot cocoa at school in winter. That was very welcome but things have changed. This beneficial scheme should be promoted.
My only problem is that there seems to be a total lack of Fianna Fáil support for the scheme at today's meeting. Is the Minister being left with no support from either his party or the Independent Deputies?
The Minister has 100% support from the Fianna Fáil party.
The Chairman is backing him up.
He has Deputy Sheehan.
I have a good anchorman in the meeting's Chairman, Deputy John Brady. I thank members for supporting this very good scheme. As Deputy Dukes has said, some areas use it more than others. Unfortunately, as we all know, some children in this Celtic Tiger go to school hungry.
Milk is nature's most complete food. It is highly nutritional and high in calcium, vitamins and minerals. I have made contacts with the National Dairy Council over the years, including prior to this meeting when I asked it for a summation of support for the scheme. Its chief executive, Mr. Aidan McCarthy, informed me that the body supports milk and dairy products generically, for which it receives about \120,000.
Deputies have admonished me for the lack of uptake of the scheme. I will take up the matter with the Department of Health and Children and the Department of Education and Science. I once had a direct interest in a dairy in west Cork. In my experience being a milk rounds man can be very helpful in getting first preference votes in later life. During a postal dispute a few years ago, I made good use of the rounds man
We are digressing slightly. Deputy Dukes raised the matter of promotion. I have already contacted the National Dairy Council and I will get in touch with the Departments of Education and Science and Health and Children. Part of the problem is that this is an administrative chore for the teaching professionals in schools who have the additional burden of collecting and refrigerating the milk. Some schools are more co-operative than others. Milk, yoghurt, flavoured milk and similar products are so nutritional for younger people that it would be worthwhile for schools to make the extra effort.
The figure of £1,000 in the Estimate is a token figure inserted for technical reasons. The £300,000 is in the Revised Estimate. As a lay person I do not know why it could not also be put in here but this is how the Department of Finance likes to do these things.
That has wrapped up a mystery.
My colleague Deputy Sheehan has always been good at sums - he has been able to count the first preference votes and get over the quota without difficulty——
It still operates for the Minister.
It is very competitive. I always found it a little easier on the eastern side of the constituency.
The 6p per day is a relatively small amount. Deputy Dukes hit the nail on the head in pointing out that initially this was a milk disposal scheme, which had nothing to do with nutrition or providing free milk for less well-off people. It was seen as a way of disposing of a surplus quantity of product.
The scheme is fairly widely dispersed geographically. It is not concentrated in any area either urban or rural. The priority is to make the scheme more attractive and easier to work for the dairies and the schools involved in it and to target youngsters. It is a good scheme and we will examine ways of improving its promotion and getting this highly nutritional product utilised more by well-deserving younger people.
I thank the Minister, his officials and committee members for their contributions today.