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SELECT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, MARINE AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 30 Nov 2005

Estimates for Public Services 2005.

Vote 30 — Communications, Marine and Natural Resources (Supplementary).

We are dealing with a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Vote 30, as referred to the committee by the Dáil on 29 November. There is a constraint on the time available to deal with this matter and, therefore, I propose we proceed at a brisk pace. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Members will have received a briefing note outlining details of the Supplementary Estimate. I ask that members adhere to a reasonably strict schedule. I propose that the Minister of State will address the committee for approximately five minutes following which each Opposition spokesperson will have the same length of time to contribute. Is that agreed? Agreed. I remind members that as we are considering only the Supplementary Estimate, they may discuss only issues relevant to the Supplementary Estimate. They may not recommend increases or decreases in the Supplementary Estimate and there will be no votes. I invite the Minister of State to make a brief opening statement.

The token Supplementary Estimate for Vote 30, Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, proposes additional funding for Bord Iasaigh Mhara in terms of grant-in-aid under subhead E.1. The additional funding sought for 2005 for the grant-in aid subhead amounts to €1.72 million. The additional expenditure is to be met from savings. The Supplementary Estimate sought is to be a token of €1,000.

In June this year I invited Mr. Padraic White to examine a report on the urgency, scope and cost of the decommissioning of vessels in the whitefish and shellfish fleets. The White report recognises the importance of Ireland's marine fishing industry as a valuable source of economic activity for Ireland, especially in coastal communities. The central recommendation of the report is to remove up to 25% of the capacity from the whitefish fleet and excess capacity in the scallop fleet. On 13 July, the Government approved the recommendations of this report and allocated €45 million to be spent on the scheme for the adjustment of fishing effort or decommissioning in the period 2005 to 2008. The scheme will be encompassed under the sea fisheries development measure of the productive sector operational programme of the NDP. The scheme which is administered by Bord Iascaigh Mhara was launched on 4 October, following receipt of EU approval.

BIM has issued letters of offer this week to those applicants who have been successful in the first of the three scheduled rounds of decommissioning. The speed with which the scheme has been brought forward gives a good indication of the importance of taking this action now to respond effectively to the situation faced by our fishermen in the whitefish and shellfish sectors of the fleet. The decommissioning scheme is the most extensive ever announced by the Government. It will provide €45 million in funding over four years. As recommended by the White report, the aim of the scheme is to permanently remove up to 25% of the older, larger and more active vessels in the whitefish fleet, as well as excess capacity in the scallop fleet.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to set out a long-term strategy for the sustainable development of the fishing industry. By far the most important ingredient in achieving such development is the urgent necessity to establish a better balance between fleet size and the available fishing entitlements. The scheme is a crucial factor in achieving this balance. It will support the securing of investments already made and return the fleet to a viable basis within the available fishing quotas.

I will now turn to the financial details of the scheme and outline how the delivery of this funding is structured. The sea fisheries development measure of the NDP through which the scheme is managed is co-financed with EU funds from the Structural Fund for fisheries, the financial instrument for fisheries guidance, FIFG, under which 75% of total eligible expenditure on decommissioning may be recouped by the Exchequer. However, under EU rules for Structural Funds, member states must adhere to spending targets or, as it is known, the N+2 rule. This means that certain amounts must be spent in each year. Any underspend against the EU target could lead to less than full take-up of available FIFG co-financing moneys.

This brings me to the second aspect of the proposed Supplementary Estimate — the importance of maintaining our rate of spend of EU moneys which necessitates matching national funds. BIM's projections show that the total funding requirement for the 2005 element of the decommissioning scheme will amount to €3.435 million, which sum represents the minimum amount that must be spent on decommissioning before the end of 2005 to ensure available FIFG co-financing moneys are taken up in full.

Within BIM's existing 2005 capital allocation of €10.9 million, an amount of €1.314 million was earmarked to support decommissioning. In view of the need to make as much progress as possible on the implementation of this important scheme and to ensure full take-up of available FIFG funding, my Department requested BIM to critically examine its overall capital spending proposals. The objective was to identify savings that could be reallocated to make up the shortfall of €2.121 million on the scheme. In the event, BIM reported that there was scope to allocate a further €400,000 to the scheme. This brings the total amount available for decommissioning in 2005 to €1.714 million, leaving a shortfall of €1.721 million against the target spending requirement of €3.435 million. BIM has confirmed that having regard to its other capital spending commitments, there is no possibility of reducing the amount of this shortfall to any appreciable extent within existing resources.

This token Supplementary Estimate is proposed to provide, under the Bord Iascaigh Mhara grant-in-aid provision — subhead E.1 — for additional capital expenditure of approximately €1.72 million on the fishing vessel decommissioning scheme before the end of 2005. Approval of this token Supplementary Estimate will enable the Department to make up the shortfall. This will provide for the full €3.435 million on decommissioning in 2005 and permit the lodgement of the overall sea fisheries claim of €4.34 million necessary to take up in full the available EU funding of some €2.6 million.

Approval of this token Supplementary Estimate will enable immediate action to be taken to address the serious situation facing the fishing fleet and deliver the maximum support to it at this crucial time. It is proposed to meet the additional funding for Bord Iascaigh Mhara from savings within subhead K of the Vote amounting to €1.721 million. Subhead K — other services — of Vote 30 provides for mining services, information society funding for agencies, the running costs of the gas technical standards committee, subscriptions to international organisations and support under cross-Border initiatives, namely, Peace II and INTERREG III programmes. The subhead also makes provision for the capital contingency fund which this Department is required, under the multi-annual capital investment framework, to make within the Estimate to meet any unforeseen demands or additional costs which might emerge. A contingency sum of €1.929 million is provided within the subhead for this purpose in 2005. It is proposed to use capital savings of €1.72 million from subhead K in 2005 to fund the additional requirement under subhead E.1.

I have now outlined to Deputies the detail of the Supplementary Estimate, the costs of which can be met by savings. I hope they will agree that the proposals are reasonable and can approve them as presented. It is a vital project and I appeal to members to give their approval. It will mean that we can draw down funding from the European Union.

I fully support the Minister of State. The decommissioning proposals are effective and I compliment BIM which was given the task of dealing with this. It has demonstrated effective due diligence in having the evaluation carried out. In examining the possibilities for decommissioning and the viability of the whitefish fleet, especially given the debacle in the scallop sector earlier in the year, the White report was effective and completed in a remarkable timeframe. Clearly, it was dealt with in a businesslike manner. It is imperative that this Estimate is approved to avail of the EU funding. Fine Gael certainly agrees in principle. Given the issue of conservation and the cutbacks in the allocation of quota, the scheme will make the fleet more viable. It makes economic sense.

I compliment the Minister of State and the BIM team which has a firm grasp of how to deal with this. The industry will be stronger when all boats over 15 years old are taken out of use. Effectively, the fleet will be composed of state-of-the-art new vessels which will be capable of dealing with emerging challenges and future possibilities.

I welcome and support the Minister of State's proposal. As I said in the debate on the fisheries Bill, the two White reports contain the key information and elements for a sustainable fishing industry for the future. Obviously, we must do this to access the additional EU funding but how many fishermen will be able to avail of the decommissioning scheme in 2005? The Minister of State said there were a number of offers. How will they be allocated between the major five or six ports?

The Minister of State explained this matter to us previously. Mr. White did an excellent job in dealing with a difficult issue for the scallop fishermen in Dunmore East and Kilmore who were experiencing grave difficulties at the time, as I was informed by those who telephoned me and contacted my office. As decommissioning proceeds, how will we measure the remaining effort? The 1999 White report gave an average age of 26.5 years for our vessels. I am not sure how that figure was reached. I note that in the BIM budget we are spending €1.5 million on the whitefish renewal and modernisation scheme. We were doing this before the White proposals were made and before the Minister of State endorsed them and opted for the decommissioning scheme. How will we evaluate the remaining effort? People will be working with better equipment and vessels. Given the recent tragic events in the south east, on which we sympathised this morning, it is essential that they have good equipment. How do we measure this and how can we ensure there is an effective basis for a sustainable industry? Having said that, I endorse the Minister of State's decision on this token Supplementary Estimate.

I disagree with my two colleagues and the Minister of State because I have serious concerns about our management systems in the fisheries area. Serious allegations of overfishing are being revealed almost every day, with a failure to follow rules. There is a crisis in fish stocks because of such illegal overfishing. On behalf of the members of the public whom I represent, I must question why, after BIM has spent some €55 million in capital support to build up the fleet in recent years, we find the same agency decommissioning vessels at huge cost to Irish and European taxpayers. We should examine the use of such finances.

The proposals stipulate that boats must be 15 years old, but is it not the case that some of them — for example, those involved in scallop fishing in County Wexford — while they may only have been given licences recently, may have been older? Therefore, boats that may have been licensed in the past five years by the Department, at a time when we knew we should not be issuing additional licences — there are questions to be asked as to why we did so — may well be subject to this scheme. Will the Minister of State answer this point? Will he also answer the question of whether we are setting a precedent? In the pelagic fishing fleet, for example, we find there has been a massive build up of capacity, but if we do not have sufficient stocks for the fleet to remain active, is there not a precedent being set whereby we will then have to provide for decommissioning of the fleet? Those engaged in this activity have my sympathy because they have been badly caught out by the management system. Is it not the case, however, that they entered into it on the basis of their initiative and taking risks? Will it always be the case in the fisheries sector that when we have to tighten legislation and the control systems in place, we will effectively have to compensate anyone affected?

I have serious concerns about the way in which An Bord Iascaigh Mhara is managing itself. We are spending a budget of €10 million in managing a fishing fleet which is clearly in need of radical reform. There is widespread mismanagement of the sector, with widespread misuse of public funds in a manner that I do not consider to be effective. I am, therefore, reluctant to support the allocation of more money to such a decommissioning scheme when there is no evidence that it will lead to change, improved management or sustainable use of stocks. What is to prevent the remaining boats, with new equipment, including sonar and other devices, from catching the quota that the boats in question might have caught? I do not see how the proposal will provide for any real improvement in our fisheries management system. I, therefore, question the use of public money in that regard.

I thank Deputies Broughan and Perry for their contributions. Deputy Eamon Ryan never ceases to amaze me because I would have put my political life on it that he would welcome this proposal to strike a better balance, given his genuinely held views. I am not being cynical when I say that.

To bring the select committee up to date, BIM sent out letters of offer on 24 November to 22 vessel owners who are spread around the country from Kerry, Dublin, Donegal, Cork, Louth to, not surprisingly, Wexford. By and large, I expect them to be scallop vessels, the owners of which must accept the offer made. There will be no question of bartering. The guidelines are clear and show what they are entitled to receive. They must apply to register and comply with all of the other conditions set down by 9 December, after which they will receive 50% of the grant which will be paid before the end of the year, which is the reason we are here today. If they all accept the offer made, the total sum involved in grant aid for the 22 vessels in question will be €11.6 million. Other rounds are planned in 2006 — I hope in the spring and autumn. It was not a matter for the Department or BIM to differentiate between the various boats involved. The owners of the vessels which had qualified indicated that they wanted to be included in the first tranche. Those who will qualify next year will indicate which tranche they are interested in.

Back in the 1990s some boats were almost sinking. In my own area of north Donegal I recall the time when the Carrigatine disappeared. The recommendation made in a safety review was that there should be fleet renewal, for which the Government took a positive and realistic decision that funding should be made available. The boats in question now form the backbone of the whitefish fleet which has been built up during the period.

Deputy Eamon Ryan may be unaware that no State support is provided for the pelagic fishing fleet. The only vessels that will benefit from decommissioning are those involved in catching whitefish and shellfish. The pelagic fleet is excluded. In order to qualify vessels must be over 15 years old and 18 metres in length. In the case of scallop fishing, boats must be 15 metres in length. This is not setting a precedent. We are being realistic. We want to balance capacity and available resources. If we allowed the status quo to continue, all vessel owners would suffer. By removing these vessels from the fleet the quotas we will be negotiating in Brussels the week before Christmas will be available to the remaining vessels. We have a strong and vibrant whitefish fleet which has a future.

I want to finish now because the Minister of State has to attend another meeting. In addition, we will be dealing with the motion concerning the Tampere Convention which must be taken before 6 December.

I have one brief supplementary question. Were some of the boats to be compensated, for example, those involved in scallop fishing, licensed within the past five years?

Some of them could have been, yes. In order to be fully entitled to be compensated there are rules concerning the requisite number of days, tonnage and certificate of compliance.

Does the Minister of State agree that some of the licences were issued at a time when it was widely accepted, by the Department and elsewhere, that we should be placing a cap on the capacity of the fleet? In a sense, we are now compensating vessels with licences that should not have been issued.

Did we have any national licensing policy at the time? We have only had such a policy for the past year or two.

We have had such a policy for somewhat longer than that.

Since 2003.

Under the 2003 Act a new independent licensing authority was established.

On numerous occasions I have asked myself the same question: why, when we knew there would be a cap, whether it be for quotas or fishing effort, did we do it? However, there were a number of vessels in the pipeline and there was no way we could have refused them. There were conditions attached and we accepted the White report, warts and all, following which I received a number of submissions. I met various representatives, particularly Wexford Deputies. I have much sympathy for crew members, although they are not included in this proposal. I have asked departmental officials who will tell BIM to indicate to vessel owners that we are anxious that they make some provision for crew members who have served them well during the years.

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