Amendments No. 32n., 32p., 32q., 32r., and amendments No. 40 to 45, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together, by agreement.
SECTION 60.
I move amendmentjyNo. 32n.:
In page 50, subsection (1) (b), lines 29 and 30, to delete "a master or first mate who is bona fide acting as master or first mate" and substitute "a person who is bona fide acting as the person in charge".
Section 72 empowers a port company to grant pilotage exemption certificates in certain circumstances. Usually such exemption certificates are granted in respect of ships which call regularly to a port, for example ferry vessels on the Dublin-Holyhead and Dún Laoghaire-Holyhead routes. Such vessels would make up to two round trips a day. However a number of harbour authorities and the Irish ports authority association are not happy that the Bill as drafted limits the issue of such certificates to masters and first mates of ships. They have pointed out that the phrase "first mate" has been replaced by "chief officer" and that the term "chief officer" could in the near future be replaced by some other title.
The conditions subject to which pilotage exemption certificates are granted are very stringent and in these circumstances I propose the deletion of "master" or "first mate" and its replacement by the words "officer in charge". This means that a number of sections will need to be amended, sections 72 (1) (a) and 72 (2) (b) and paragraphs 52, 57 and 66 of the Sixth Schedule in addition to section 60 (1) (b). Amendment No. 43 is a consequential technical amendment. I recommend the amendments to the Committee.
Amendment agreed to.
Question proposed: "That section 60, as amended, stand part of the Bill".
Ships proceeding to and from New Ross must pass through Waterford pilotage district. Pilotage is compulsory in Waterford and New Ross pilotage districts. Legislation enacted in 1913 provides that every ship navigating where pilotage is compulsory for the purpose of entering, leaving, or making use of any port in the district must navigate under pilot.
Ships proceeding to and from New Ross do not enter, leave, or make use of any port in the Waterford district. Thus, these vessels are not caught by the Compulsory Pilotage Act, 1913. However, it has been the practice for New Ross ships to avail of the services of a Waterford pilot but outward pilotage only became compulsory in 1968. This practice is based on misinterpretation of legislation; advice to this effect has been obtained from two eminent lawyers. In practical terms the fact that vessels must avail of the services of two pilots when entering and leaving New Ross increases ship owners' costs which are in turn reflected in higher freight rates to the port. This places the port of New Ross at a competitive disadvantage. Under the terms of the Harbours Bill 1995, individual port companies are empowered to make by-laws specifying the circumstances in which pilotage will be compulsory for ships navigating in their pilotage district. If pilotage continues to be compulsory for ships which are merely passing through one pilotage district on their way to and from another district, then Waterford Port Company will have significant influence on the costs to vessels using New Ross port. Given that the port companies are expected to behave in a commercial manner it is possible that Waterford pilotage charges might be structured so as to increase the competitive disadvantage of New Ross in comparison to Waterford. I am very anxious that the Minister would take this on board. I understand that he has had some representations to this effect and I ask him to consider our situation at New Ross. To date, Waterford has not placed us at a competitive disadvantage. However, if this arrangement stands and all the figures are taken into account, it will cost ships almost twice as much to enter New Ross as it does to enter Waterford. I ask the Minister to give consideration before Report Stage to the disadvantage at which New Ross might be placed if the Bill goes through as proposed.
Both Deputy Byrne and the New Ross harbour commissioners have drawn this problem to my attention. Unfortunately I have not had sufficient time to consider that in advance of Committee Stage in order to address it here. I do not have an amendment before me which I could address. I understand what Deputy Byrne is saying and I will consider it. We are dealing with an issue in which both Waterford and New Ross harbours have an interest and I will have to consider the matter in the context of the views of both harbour authorities. The only other cases where dual pilotage, although it is not the practice, may have the potential to arise is in the Shannon Estuary and Dublin Port.
There is only one pilotage authority in the Shannon Estuary.
In both of these cases the solution is that there is one such authority. I do not know whether this would be the solution in Waterford or New Ross. I will have to consider this and other dimensions of the matter.
I would be happy if the Minister could give the matter some consideration.
May I make a point on this matter?
I do not want to have a competition between Waterford and New Ross and I ask you to respect that point of view.
I do, Chairman, and I ask you to respect my difficulty. I am trying to attend two committees at the same time. I would rather be here to discuss the Bill but I have responsibilities on the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs. I did not hear all of the Minister's reply but I can gather the gist from hearing the end of it.
I understand Deputy Byrne's concerns about New Ross. I have had meetings with the pilots and authorities in the Suir Estuary. It would be unthinkable, not from a financial point of view but on safety grounds, that ships going to New Ross and Waterford would have to travel eight miles up the estuary without pilots. Any attempt to remove the need for qualified pilots in that area would not work. I do not think the Minister and the Department would want to take this risk, given that shipping to New Ross and Waterford is increasing significantly. The volume and diversity of shipping in the Suir Estuary is substantial.
The Minister is aware that this estuary is narrow and there is dredging taking place at various points in order to make it safer and to make the draught deeper for larger vessels. I do not think the Minister is of the view that ships on the way to New Ross should travel eight miles of the estuary without a pilot on board. Whatever the solution is, the core point is that ships in these waters could not travel without pilots.
I do not fully accept Deputy Byrne's point. It has never been the practice, and has not been demonstrated to me by New Ross or Waterford, that an element of pilotage charges are used to enchance or diminish the prospect of freight going from one port to the other. It is not an issue and it would be foolish for either authority to suggest it, even on the grounds of safety. We can look back historically and say that this is not the case and there is no intention that it should be in future.
Whatever solution the Minister may find, we cannot have a situation where such a large volume of water would be traversed to gain access to New Ross without pilots on board whereas pilots would be required to enter Waterford Port. It would be nonsensical to have such a regime in existence. I feel we will be back to this issue on Report Stage. I would appreciate if the Minister could take soundings from Waterford and New Ross to see if we can amicably resolve this problem. The core point is that qualified, certified pilots must remain on ships travelling these routes, otherwise there could be a serious catastrophe.
Both Deputies have been given more than adequate time to put their points of view on behalf of both authorities. The Minister indicated he will consult with both authorities and will deal with the matter on Report Stage.
May I just say——
You may not say more about it.
I was misrepresented but I forgive Deputy Cullen.
You may deal with this on Report Stage when the Minister brings forward proposals having consulted with the two authorities. Otherwise, the Deputies will spend the rest of the day talking about the pros and cons of Waterford and New Ross and will contradict each other.
They are the two most important ports in the country.
You stated that amendment Nos. 40 to 45 are being taken together. Does this include amendment 41a. which is not relevant to the others?
No, that amendment will be taken on its own.
Question put and agreed to.
Sections 61 to 63, inclusive, agreed to.