Skip to main content
Normal View

Select Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment debate -
Wednesday, 31 Jan 2024

Vote 32 - Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Revised)

If members are participating in the meeting remotely, they are required to do so from within the Leinster House complex. No apologies have been received.

Today, the select committee is required to consider the Revised Estimates for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment for 2024. I welcome the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and his officials to the meeting. We appreciate the comprehensive briefing material provided by his Department on this matter. That material has been circulated to members.

As we normally do before starting, I wish to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practices of the Houses as regards references that may be made to another person in evidence. The evidence of witnesses physically present or who give evidence from within the parliamentary precincts is protected, pursuant to the Constitution and statute, by absolute privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if witnesses' statements are potentially defamatory in respect of an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed by me to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction.

I invite the Minister to make his opening comments on the Revised Estimate.

I know there are quite a number of members online. They can see us, but we cannot see them. I am sure they are taking an interest, though. I thank the committee for the opportunity to present my Department's 2024 Revised Estimate. I have a reasonably long introduction to read, but I hope it will give members a good sense of the overall Estimate and the priorities within it. My officials have provided the committee’s secretariat with briefing on the details of our Estimate. I hope it is of assistance to members.

This is the second year I have had the pleasure of presenting the Estimate of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Last year’s Estimate was presented in the context of the economy and society having emerged from the shadows of the pandemic. However, the challenge of Covid was almost immediately followed by the cost-of-living challenge and rising prices, driven in no small part by the impacts of war on Ukraine. The Government, through a range of budgetary measures, continued to support businesses, workers and households throughout the course of last year. These measures included discrete supports rolled out by my Department, not least the temporary business energy support scheme, which was designed to cushion the impact of high-energy costs on business. While prices and energy costs have been reducing from the 8.25% inflation rate in December 2022 to the 4.6% recorded last month, I am conscious the costs of doing business continue to be a significant challenge for some companies, particularly small businesses. As it has in the past, the Government will continue to support businesses through this challenge. Measures brought forward in budget 2024, such as the extension of the 9% VAT rate on gas and electricity to the end of October 2024 and extending the excise rate fuel reductions to the end of March, demonstrate our commitment to doing so. Other measures, such as the increased cost of business grant, in respect of which €257 million is being provided in my Department’s Estimate for this year, will also help. In addition, the debt warehousing scheme is being reviewed with a view to making it as flexible as possible in easing the debt and repayment burdens on businesses.

Notwithstanding the plethora of Government supports, I am aware of the concerns that have been expressed about the impact of recent improvements in working conditions, including the transition to a living wage, pension auto-enrolment, parental leave and benefit, statutory sick pay, an additional public holiday and remote working. It is important to point out that each of these improvements followed on from extensive public consultations involving employers, trade unions and the public, and while they may bring additional costs for some businesses, they will also bring economic and societal benefits by means of increasing disposable incomes and addressing in-work poverty. My Department is working with the Department of Social Protection on a report that examines the impact of changes to working conditions. I have no doubt the report, which I expect to receive shortly and a draft of which I have already seen, will make a valuable contribution to future policy in the areas of enterprise development and working conditions.

Notwithstanding the difficulties being experienced in this period of extended price inflation, it is worth bearing in mind that the Irish economy continues to perform robustly. Employment is at a record high, with 2.6 million people now in work, consumer prices have fallen and are likely to continue doing so, the public finances continue to be robust, and Ireland is ranked as the second most competitive economy in the globe under the IMD world competitiveness rankings.

The Estimate before the committee provides my Department with a gross allocation of €1.268 billion for use this year, broken down between €402.474 million in current funding and €866.04 million in capital funding. While this is some €353 million less than our allocation in the 2023 Revised Estimates, it should be borne in mind that the Department received additional non-core current funding of just under €650 million last year to fund the cost of payments under the temporary business energy support scheme. Excluding the non-core TBESS funding of last year and the increased cost of business funding being provided for this year, the Department’s core funding for 2024 is €979 million, which represents an increase of €35 million on our core 2023 allocation of €944 million. I can go through those details in more detail in a minute, if members wish.

This increase in core funding will ensure that we can progress a number of initiatives under my Department's enterprise, development, innovation and regulation programme. The Exchequer has provided a total of €890 million in the Revised Estimate to support this programme this year. In addition, the enterprise agencies supported under this programme, such as the IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and the National Standards Authority of Ireland will, subject to sanction from the Minister for public expenditure, have the use of up to a further €100 million from income they generate from property and equity investments with clients to support their capital programmes and to fund operational activity such as recruiting additional staff this year. In other words, they are allowed to use their own resources. Each year, Enterprise Ireland, IDA and others generate up to a surplus of approximately €100 million in income from their own investments, charges and so on, and we have sanctioned that they will be able to spend a considerable amount of that money on top of the other Exchequer funding that has been allocated.

The enterprise agencies continue to promote and develop an enterprise culture across all areas of the country. The 6,128 net jobs created by clients of the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and the LEOs in 2023 was somewhat less than the record achievements in previous years. It is the case that in a very challenging environment, over 560,000 jobs are being supported by clients of our agencies. This represents 21.5% of the total number of people currently in employment in the State, which is the highest ever.

The Revised Estimates increase the core funding of the IDA to just under €266 million. This additional funding will ensure that the agency can, through its grants, innovation, training and regional property programmes, support enterprise in making transformative investments to increase the productivity of Irish operations and their workforce through research, investment and development, digitalisation and actions on sustainability.

In the area of property, the increased funding will enable the IDA to deliver the remainder of the 19 property solutions committed to under its regional property programme. In this regard, eight dedicated property solutions have already been completed. A further five buildings are expected to be on site in 2024 and two further buildings are in the planning system. An extensive site selection process for the four remaining properties is currently under way. I know that there is a great deal of impatience to get on with many of these projects in different parts of the country.

The €213 million being allocated to Enterprise Ireland will be supplemented by approximately €85 million to €95 million in income from its equity, seed and venture investments. This will ensure that Enterprise Ireland can roll out a number of key significant strategic initiatives. Among them will be the launch of a new exporters accelerator programme to deliver 2,000 new exporters by 2030; new funding for its seed and venture programmes; the launch of an environmental aid offer targeting the largest emitters in order to intervene in time to meet the 2030 targets; aligning all its funding supports with a sustainability and climate requirement; and continuing the digital and green transformative programmes with pace and ambition through its dedicated green and digital transition funds. Its equity investment income will also allow Enterprise Ireland to recruit the additional staff required to roll out these strategic initiatives.

The budget of the LEOs is also being increased by 14% to €56.8 million this year. As the committee will be aware, we are asking more of the LEOs all of the time. They need more resources and they are certainly getting them. This increase recognises the growing demand for the services provided by the LEOs as well as enabling them to embrace their extended mandate for businesses operating in manufacturing and internationally trading sectors that have grown beyond ten employees and have the potential to export. As the committee knows, if one has the potential to export, the LEOs can now support businesses that employ up to 50 people whereas up until the end of last year that was limited to ten. The additional funding will be used to assist LEO clients to deal with the twin transitions of digitalisation and decarbonisation which are key priorities of the White Paper on Enterprise. Specifically in the area of decarbonisation, the LEO clients will continue to be able to access supports such as the green for business programme, which provides two days of intensive mentoring, including a sustainability audit and action plan, and the energy-efficiency grant which provides businesses with capital investment to reduce carbon emissions based on an energy-efficiency project. In the area of digitalisation, the LEOs will also continue to assist clients to adapt to the reality of the digital environment including through its trading online voucher and digital start programmes.

The credit guarantee scheme is one of a number of access-to-finance schemes supported by my Department. There are currently three distinct guarantee schemes: the original credit guarantee scheme, the Covid-19 credit guarantee scheme and the Ukraine credit guarantee scheme, UCGS. The Ukraine scheme, which was launched in January 2023, is the only scheme still open to lending facilities. The Revised Estimate has allocated €8 million to meet any calls against the guarantee under the UCGS as well as meeting the administration cost of the scheme.

As advised, the Estimate includes a provision of €257 million to support the increased cost of business scheme, ICOB, which was announced as part of budget 2024. The committee will remember that we discussed this briefly in this committee. The ICOB grant will provide a one-off cash injection of up to €5,000 to SMEs in recognition of the costs faced by businesses across the country. It is targeted at small and medium-sized businesses operating directly within a premises that is commercially rateable by a local authority. The grant will be paid at a rate of half the enterprise's 2023 commercial rates bill for firms paying up to €10,000 in rates. For those paying between €10,000 and €30,000 in rates, they will receive a flat grant of €5,000 each. No grant will be available for firms paying more than €30,000 in rates last year. To put that into context, about 96% of all rate-paying businesses are receiving a grant. I believe the figure is now approximately 143,000 businesses, so I am glad to say that a very significant number of businesses will be getting that grant over the next couple of months, with the support of the local authorities.

It is not intended that there be a formal application process for the scheme and in this regard, it is proposed that local authorities will contact businesses on the availability and conditions relating to the grant. In other words, hopefully by the middle of next month, businesses will receive a letter from the local authority to confirm their bank account details and that they are still a viable, operating business. They will have to be tax compliant and in a positive relationship with local authorities in being up-to-date with their rates, or at least in some form of payment plan. The idea here is that we are making this as easy as possible, particularly for small businesses. They will receive a letter and they just have to respond positively to that letter. They should then get the payment transferred to them relatively quickly. It will take a couple of months because there is a significant amount of bureaucracy required here from the local authorities but not from the businesses. That is the way we have tried to design it. Work is ongoing between officials in my Department and the local authorities on the details of the administration of the grant. It is intended that the grant will be issued directly to eligible businesses by the local authorities in the first quarter of this year.

A total of €245 million is being provided to support to support our enterprise, innovation and commercialisation programme this year. The majority of this funding is allocated to our science and technology development programme, our memberships of international research organisations and the funding of the disruptive technologies innovation fund. The Department's science and technology programme is mainly delivered by Enterprise Ireland through its suite of innovation and commercialisation measures. The €159 million being provided to the programme this year will be focused on delivering a number of discrete initiatives.

Specifically, given our commitment to promote innovation in the construction sector under the Housing for All plan, Enterprise Ireland will allocate an additional €2 million to the development of the national demonstration park for modern methods of construction, MMC, in Mount Lucas, County Offaly. The demonstration park will be a showcase for the latest construction innovations. I respectfully suggest that it would be interesting for the committee to visit Mount Lucas because what is happening there will change how construction sites operate in the future. The Department wants to make a significant contribution to accelerating the switch to MMC.

A further €1.35 million will be allocated to the recently established Construct Innovate technology centre. This funding will support the delivery of new industry-focused research to be undertaken in 2024, which is a key part of boosting construction sector productivity. Enterprise Ireland will also use the funding allocated in the Estimate for a range of other initiatives, including: supporting up to 15 innovative high-potential start-ups that originate from the publicly funded research system; 100 in-company research, development and innovation approvals for more than €100,000; delivering more than 1,500 collaborative innovations; targeting 540 companies to be involved in technology centres; supporting 35 spin-out companies from the Irish research system that has been established; rolling out the new needs-led training innovators initiative; and continuing to deliver on the European Regional Development Fund, ERDF, co-funded knowledge transfer, KT, boost and technology gateway programmes. There is a series of programmes to drive innovation in the areas of technology and research. The innovation and commercialisation programme also funds the cost of Ireland's membership of the European Space Agency, ESA, which is now delivering results. The €26.6 million allocated in the Estimate will ensure that the number of companies which benefit from ESA contracts will continue to grow, thus maintaining the high growth rate in space-related activities in Ireland. As members will be aware, Ireland has its first satellite, which is linked to a research programme in UCD. It was sent into space in recent months.

The €42.5 million being provided to support the disruptive technologies innovation fund will allow for a seventh call to be made under the fund, which is intended to be announced in the first quarter of this year. To date, six calls have been made under the fund, with 103 successful collaborative projects announced. Approximately €365 million in funding has been awarded under these calls to 389 industry and research partners involved in approved disruptive innovation projects.

The regulation programme has been allocated a total €133 million for use this year. This represents an increase of 15% in the funding provided last year. Our regulatory agencies play a critical role in upholding Ireland's reputation as a business-friendly country and a great place to do business. The additional resources allocated in the Estimate will ensure they continue to do so, not least given the significantly expanded mandates a number of them have now assumed.

The Estimate increased the funding to the workplace relations programme by 10% this year to €23.6 million. The increased funding will enable the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, to recruit additional staff and, in particular, to increase the number of inspectors who are required to carry out its expanded suite of functions. The commission expects to have a total of 80 inspectors in place by the end of the year. This will represent an increase of ten on the current commitment.

The funding to the Health and Safety Authority, HSA, is being increased to €30.7 million. The additional funding will allow the authority to continue its programme of recruitment, especially in its inspectorate division, to meet its expanding mandate in areas such as chemicals. Through further recruitment campaigns, the authority will look to increase its current staff head count of 261 to 295 by the end of the year.

The Corporate Enforcement Authority, CEA, will receive an increased allocation of €11.1 million in 2024. This follows increases in the authority's budget both prior to and post its establishment as a statutory authority. The authority will use the increased funding to develop a new case management system which will enhance how CEA case data is structured and managed, allowing for more efficient management, oversight and reporting and providing real-time detailed analysis of core activity. The increased funding will also ensure the authority can continue to recruit additional staff, particularly staff with specialist skills. In this regard, the authority hopes to be able to increase its current staffing complement from 70 civilian and Garda staff to 83 by the end of the year.

The mandate of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, has expanded significantly in recent years and in 2024 it is expected to assume further functions under the EU Digital Service Act, the Data Governance Act, the Data Act and the Digital Markets Act, in addition to the responsibilities expected under the European accessibility Act. In other words, it will have a lot of extra work. In recognition of these additional responsibilities, the funding being allocated to the commission will be increased by more than 22% in 2024 to €25.7 million. The increased funding will allow the commission to recruit the additional staff required to carry out its expanded mandate. In this regard, the commission expects, through targeted recruitment campaigns, to increase its staffing complement from its current level of 188 to 226 by the end of the year.

Funding of €6 million will be provided to support the operations of the digital services co-ordinator, DSC, in 2024. This represents an increase of €3.3 million on the DSC allocation for last year. The Digital Services Act obliges each member state to appoint one overall competent authority as a the digital services authority, known as the digital services co-ordinator. Coimisiún na Meán, as the Irish DSC, will supervise and enforce the Digital Services Act when it comes into force on 17 February. I thank colleagues opposite for their co-operation and support in trying to get this legislation through on time, particularly as it requires the co-operation of Opposition parties. I appreciate that they have been constructive and helpful in those efforts. I hope we will complete them in the next two weeks.

The DSC, Coimisiún na Meán, will assume several new functions this year, including a significant role in the overall EU enforcement network, with the European Commission and other member states. The funding being provided to the DSC in 2024 will ensure it can recruit the additional staff required to meet the full breadth of its responsibilities, including the new functions it is taking on. In this regard, the DSC intends to recruit an additional 40 staff at all levels to discharge its functions, as part of Coimisiún na Meán's overall online safety framework. As the DSC moves from the preparatory phase to full enactment of the Digital Services Act, there will be a number of key target areas. Coimisiún na Meán will have an initial supervision operating model ready to go later this month. Its contact centre will provide advice to users on their rights under the Digital Services Act and gather intelligence that will inform an coimisiún's supervisory and enforcement activities.

Aside from the specific programme activities I have already mentioned, my Department will continue to progress a number of critical policy and legislative initiatives in the course of the coming year. A particular focus will be on implementing the targets in the White Paper on enterprise to progress the transitions required for climate and digital transformation, offshore wind energy - an offshore wind energy industrial strategy will be published before the end of March - regional enterprise development, trade policy and regulation.

I hope I have given the committee a flavour of our Estimate and what we hope to deliver for the moneys being provided by the Exchequer for this year. My contribution was slightly longer than usual, but it covered a series of different areas. I am happy to go into any detail the committee wants or to provide it with more detail in writing in respect of any areas on which I do not have detail to hand today.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive introduction. We have a rota in place and will go to members first. Deputy Louise O'Reilly is first. The Deputy has 14 minutes.

I thank the Minister and his officials for coming this morning and for the overview of the Estimates. I apologise in advance that I have to go to another meeting, so I will not be able to stay for the entirety of the meeting.

I want to ask about the exporters accelerator programme and the plan to deliver 2,000 new exporters by 2030. This is an important area of our economy and it deserves significant attention. This is welcome. In percentage terms, has the Minister a target for increasing the SMEs exporting? Currently, 6% of SMEs export, which is very low. They themselves would acknowledge that. What does the Minister believe is achievable between now and 2030 in terms of growth?

There is recognition that we need to do more to support SMEs to expand and grow and become international. Enterprise Ireland is focused on that in terms of scaling up an internationalisation of companies and has a series of programmes on mentoring, training and financing companies to do that.

The White Paper on enterprise, as the Deputy says, sets out the ambition for 2,000 additional Irish-owned exporters by 2030. Enterprise Ireland supports to exporting SMEs include direct financial assistance through grants, loans and equity investments, as I have said, market research on export development assistance, funding and mentoring for innovation and research, and facilitating international trade missions and market access opportunities.

Irish manufactured products continue to compete well in world markets. The most recent figures illustrate that 2022 was a record year for Irish-owned businesses when it comes to international sales. Companies supported by EI achieved export sales of €32.1 billion, an increase of 19% on the previous year. The growth occurred across all overseas regions and in individual industry sectors. Exports to the UK increased by 3% and those to the eurozone increased by 28%. The eurozone now accounts for 25% of all exports by EI companies, with a value of €7.9 billion. There is a lot of other detail there.

The question the Deputy asked-----

It is 6% at present. Has the Minister a target in mind for between now and 2030. It is 2,000 companies but, in percentage terms, only 6% of them export at present. That is low. They themselves would acknowledge that. The Minister stated it is an area that needs a bit of work. I have said that as well. While we are agreeing, let us kick on.

The target for the next six years is an extra 2,000 companies that are effectively going global in terms of exporting. What I do not have is the break-up of that 2,000 figure for what we can achieve in 2024, 2025, 2026 and 2027, but I can ask EI for that.

I met with Mr. Clancy last week. It was a good meeting. It is only to know if the Minister had a target in mind for what it would look like-----

-----even in 2030. It is 6% at present. In 2030, what is that figure likely to be?

The target we have set for ourselves is an extra 2,000 rather than making it a percentage of overall numbers. EI is setting about putting programmes and funding models in place that can get a net increase of 2,000 over the next six years in the number of businesses that are trading internationally. That is, effectively, what the target is. What I do not have is a breakdown for how we achieve that 2,000 and in what year. I am not sure that precise data exists but the target over the next six years or so is to have an extra 2,000 businesses in that space.

I thank the Minister.

The pipeline, by the way, is already developing. Looking at the pipeline of companies that are being supported by LEOs and by Enterprise Ireland, the number of high-potential start-ups and spin-outs from the universities that all have international ambition is quite significant. I am sure the Deputy would have met some of those companies as well when she visited universities, innovation centres, etc., looking at the high-potential start-up programmes that EI is operating. I am confident we will achieve that extra 2,000 and, I hope, surpass it, but I do not have an exact figure for 2024.

Shifting the dial on the 6% is important as well. The 2,000 will, but it is just to know. My time is short.

There will be a corresponding increase in the percentage with that but I do not have that number. The 2,000 is a more exact target.

There might not be, if others are being added.

I take the Minister's point. It is the 2,000 the figure is on. If the Minister could get the information on how that will be stepped in, that would be good.

I will ask about the ICOB scheme. On the dates, the Minister has said a letter is likely to go out in the middle of next month from the local authorities. What is the estimate, in terms of time, from the letter to the money reaching people in the first instance? Second, I am not brilliant at mathematics, but if every one of the 140,000 the Minister said gets the €5,000, he would have to put €710 million aside. That is clearly not there. Of the money the Minister has, either 51,800 get €12,000 or 140,000 get €1,800. There is not €5,000 for all, or even a small portion, of these companies. The likelihood is it will be closer to the €1,800. Notwithstanding that, I am sure there are plenty of businesses that will welcome it. I would welcome a bit of certainty on the dates and when they will receive the money. There will not be any conditions, as the Minister has outlined, other than the ones that would be expected such as being in good stead with the Revenue. I assume that would include being in an arrangement to pay back any warehoused debt-----

-----and having rates up to date. Regarding the money, the figure of €5,000 mentioned is the maximum amount. Let us be honest; they are not getting €5,000.

It is highly unlikely.

Let me explain that. There is absolute certainty about what businesses are getting. Any business that paid, last year, between €10,000 and €30,000 in rates is getting the €5,000 flat rate.

Of the 142,000, how many are those? Will the Minister give the figures as well?

Any business that paid less than €10,000 in rates, which is a very large number of businesses, will get 50% of what it paid in rates last year as a grant in recognition for the cost of doing business. On the split of those 140,000 businesses or so that are paying less than €10,000 versus the others that are paying between €10,000 and €30,000, every business itself will know what it paid in rates last year and, as I said, there is clarity about what they will get back as long as they qualify.

On the timeline around it, we are working with local authorities, local authority managers, the CCMA, and other representative bodies to make sure this money gets out as soon as it possibly can. We spoke to them after the budget decision and the indication was they would not be able to get the payments out before the end of the year but that they would certainly do everything they could to get the payments out in the first quarter of 2024. That is what we are working towards now. My understanding is we are likely to see letters coming out from local authorities by the middle of February. This is a busy time for local authorities, by the way.

I understand that.

They have a whole lot of other stuff on, including a round of rates collection. They have agreed to work with us on this to get the letters out by the middle of next month with a view to making payments before the end of the first quarter. We will work with them. If it goes slightly beyond that, we will try to make sure the timelines are as tight as possible but the intention at present is to get the payments out in the first quarter of this year.

Of the 142,000, what number will receive the full or maximum amount?

Which full amount?

Of the 142,000, what number will receive the €5,000?

Fifteen thousand businesses are getting the €5,000. The others, which is the largest cohort of SMEs paying less than €10,000 in rates, will get half of what they paid last year back in a grant this year. We had to try to put a mechanism in place that made a reasonable link between the size and scale of the business and how much we should be paying it in a grant towards the cost of running that business.

We thought that rates, although not perfect, were a reasonably good way of making that assessment. Generally, the more rates that are paid and the bigger the business is, the more people it employs. The larger its premises, the larger the cost increases linked to all of that. It is not a perfect way of doing it, but it does allow us to get a lot of money to a large number of businesses quickly and without a lot of bureaucracy and form-filling, which is what businesses asked us for.

Absolutely. I assume much of this was informed by the experience of TBESS.

It is not just TBESS-----

While we are on that, what is the Minister's view of the very low take-up of the TBESS? I assume it is not because he thought businesses did not need it, yet €1.1 billion was returned unclaimed.

There were more than 50,000 applications to TBESS. It was not a small number. Of the businesses that registered for the scheme, nearly 8,500 were in the wholesale and retail trade; just over 8,000 were in accommodation and food; just under 3,000 were in agriculture, forestry and fishing; just under 2,500 were in manufacturing; and just under 2,000 were professional, scientific and technical. There were-----

I agree with the Deputy.

We are very strict on time at this committee. On the €1.1 billion that was returned, is it the Minister's opinion that the Government overshot on that amount? Did it put aside more than was needed? Is there unmet need as regards businesses that, for whatever reason, did not claim? Is it that businesses simply did not need it? There is nothing outside those three options.

It was a combination. A lot of money was put aside. It was an overshoot in many ways in the context of the demand. In addition, many businesses had hedged, purchased ahead and, therefore, did not qualify for TBESS. Some very small businesses in particular felt there was probably too much form-filling around it and they would have to take on an accountant to do it. Many of them did not want to have to do that because the returns would not have been significant enough. There was a combination of a lot of reasons. We discussed that at this committee previously and I am happy to do so again. However, we still spent more than €150 million helping businesses to pay their energy costs. That also puts the ICOB package in context. We will spend almost twice what was spent on TBESS in supporting businesses this year, without a long application process, where businesses will get payments in the first quarter of this year, but TBESS, over a much longer period, resulted in us supporting businesses to the tune of approximately €150 million.

I have a final question. I genuinely apologise for interrupting the Minister but our time is fairly tight. On the VAT rate for hospitality, splitting hospitality and, within that area, splitting food from accommodation, it is reported in the media that the Minister had favoured splitting the VAT rate. It also appears from media reports that there was a split in the Government on this along party lines between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael. Will the Minister give us an insight as to whether he believes the VAT rate can or should be split and whether there is opposition coming from the Government? There certainly does not seem to be any opposition to that measure coming from business.

The business sector has mixed views on this. Clearly, the hospitality sector wanted to keep the lower VAT rate. A number of us made the case for retaining the lower VAT rate for a longer period. A decision was taken to extend the lower VAT rate for an extra six months, which brought the tourist season last year into play. That was very welcome from the hospitality sector's perspective. I supported the budget last year, which made a decision to bring an end to the temporary decision to lower the VAT rate. The cost of a lower VAT rate for the hospitality sector as a whole, through a 12-month period if we were to retain it this year, would be approximately €788 million. Many people made the case that if we are going to spend €788 million, we should be spending it to support other sectors as well rather than just the hospitality sector. These are choices that the Government had to make.

A tax reduction is calculated, from a financial perspective, in the same way as a grant is. It is income foregone versus grant aid. It the same thing as regards the financial calculation for the Department of Finance. That being said, I made a case to look at splitting the VAT rate where it would not apply to hotel rooms but would apply to food hospitality. I felt there was a case to be made for that. It was looked at and it was decided that it was too complicated to split that in terms of enforcement and so on. Of course, there would not have been significant savings either because it still would have been a significant cost. The Government looked at that proposal but, on balance, decided not to go with it.

My team has spent the last number of months putting together a report on the impact on the economy of the increased costs that come from a whole series of Government policy changes. I would argue in favour of all of them, including workers' rights, sick leave, minimum wage increases, parental leave, planning for future pension provision and so on but, undoubtedly, those choices have increased the cost of doing business for certain sectors of the economy in a significant way, while hardly impacting other sectors at all. We are now looking at how we can support those sectors that have been impacted in a disproportionate way. Cafés and restaurants are very much in that space. It is about what we can do now from a policy and support perspective to help their viability and competitiveness going forward. We are currently in a process of looking at that and speaking to the Department of Finance about it. The Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, has been very helpful in signalling that he is speaking to Revenue about showing more flexibility on the warehousing of historical debt, most of which is linked to Covid, so we are not putting small businesses under inappropriate pressure to make repayments when they are trying to survive on a week-to-week or month-to-month basis.

I will say a number of things on this. Looking at the economy as a whole, many more businesses were being set up than were lost both last year and into this year. One is a multiple of the other. We are in a very healthy space regarding new businesses being set up. Having said that, there are particular pressures on food hospitality at present, including cafés and restaurants. We have seen a number of high-profile restaurants that were well-run businesses closing in the first month of this year. Even recognising that January is a very difficult month for the hospitality sector for obvious reasons, there is an issue here that we need look seriously at and talk to the industry about. That is what we are doing. There are a lot of issues but it is hoped we will be able to share the piece of work we have done with the committee when it is finalised in the next few weeks because-----

That would be very welcome.

-----there is a lot of very interesting stuff in it.

I am very conscious I am eating into other people's time. All of the Minister's colleagues voted for the budget as well but that did not stop them coming out afterwards to give out about portions of it.

The next slot is Fine Gael's and is 14 minutes. Deputy Stanton is sharing with Deputy Bruton.

I will tear into it and see how far I get. I welcome the Minister and his officials. I have gone through all the headings, the various reports and the Estimates. There is a huge amount of good stuff going on. It is absolutely amazing. I congratulate the Minister on all that and thank him for the work he is doing. I take the opportunity to thank him and his officials for the speedy way in which they moved to help the businesses impacted by flooding in my part of the country, in particular. As the Minister knows, that flooding was devastating. He visited the place. The water was three feet high on the walls of businesses and homes. Everything was ruined, destroyed and had to be thrown out onto skips. The work of lifetimes was destroyed. I thank the Minister for helping those people.

I also acknowledge the fact that this week, I think, he looked for further funding for the relevant scheme. He might point me in the direction as to which of the heads are being used to process that funding. I think it is around €11 million now, which leads me to say we should try to move - the Minister might use his good offices to move - on the flood relief schemes. Our biggest fear is that we might have another cloudburst and that this might happen again and we will be back where we started with all the good work ruined. The sooner we get the flood relief scheme up and running, therefore, the better. A number of anomalies occurred, and this was an unprecedented amount of water that fell in a very short time. It was phenomenal, and I do not think anybody was prepared for it. We had had flooding before in that part of the country but nothing like this. I ask Members to put themselves in their own home or their own business and think about water 3 ft up the walls and everything they had destroyed. The flooding came at a time when businesses were fully stocked just before the Christmas period, so they lost a lot of stock as well. An anomaly has arisen - I have mentioned this previously - in that some businesses, even though they were insured, were underinsured through no fault of their own because nobody could have anticipated the amount of damage that would be caused. Some of those businesses were therefore not able to avail of the emergency business flooding scheme that was set up because they had insurance but it was not enough. Would it be possible for the Minister and his officials to look at some of those businesses - they are very small in number - that are really caught because the insurance cover they have will go only a very small way towards meeting their costs, again, because the amount of water that fell was so unprecedented and so massive? The vast majority of businesses have been helped very well, and there is huge gratitude for that. Help moved fairly quickly, and the Red Cross, in fairness, did great work too, but this is the one area I ask the Minister to look at. He might come back to me on that.

I thank the Minister for the work he is doing with respect to the need to support some of the retail and food outlets that have just been discussed. I will not say too much more about that because the Minister has already mentioned what is happening in that regard, but I have come across some small businesses and restaurants that are under a lot of pressure at the moment and just barely hanging on. Anything that can be done to assist them would be worthwhile.

I have brought up the Unified Patent Court here again and again. Our committee did a report on it. I am glad to see that the Government has now decided to hold a referendum on it on 6 June, or around then, whenever the local and European elections will be held. Is there a cost to the Department involved in that? Will the Department have to pay out any funding with respect to the referendum, the referendum campaign or preparation of the ground to set up and establish the court? Provided the referendum is passed, how soon will we see a court set up here, what are the costs involved and through which mechanism in the heads will they be paid? The Minister might let me know that as well.

I notice that there is an increase in capital funding of IDA Ireland, €27 million, to accelerate its regional property enterprise grants programme. It would be remiss of me not to mention what I have mentioned here over the years, namely, land in Ballyadam and Carrigtohill, 54 ha, or 133 acres, sitting there for years and years, fully serviced. It cannot be used because of the road infrastructure. It is a scandal that it cannot be used. I know some work has been done on it recently, but the IDA needs ground like that. I acknowledge the huge work the IDA has done in the southern region in particular, but this is amazing and many people are asking why the land is not being used. Anything the Minister or his Department can do to move that on would be worthwhile.

There are a number of credit guarantee schemes. There are three of them here: the Covid-19 scheme, the original one and the Ukraine credit guarantee scheme. I notice that the Revised Estimate has allocated €8 million to meet any calls against the last scheme. Have there been any calls on any of those schemes over the period and, if so, to how much did they amount? I hope there have not been, but it just struck me to ask about it.

The Department has also established a national industrial strategy for wind energy, which I very much welcome. Our committee did some work on that too. We went to Belfast to see the development of the port there on the Chairman's suggestion. It was a great visit and we learned a lot. I notice that there is a plan to develop a strategic road map for supply chains, routes to market, spatial planning and so on, but is there a budget for the national industrial strategy for wind energy? What is the budget, and under what head does it come?

I notice as well that we are preparing to implement the Digital Markets Act. Again, what is the cost to the Department and the State of implementing that?

I have mentioned before the Employment Permits Bill, which has gone through the Dáil and is heading for the Seanad. Has the Minister given any consideration to what I mentioned previously here, that is, the inter-company transfers whereby spouses or partners are not allowed to work? That has been brought to my attention by businesses on more than one occasion. The principal person comes here under an inter-company transfer, maybe for just a short period, but his or her spouse or partner is not allowed to work. Under the critical skills list they can, but not under this one. It is a minor change. I am not sure if the Department or the Minister has considered making an amendment to that.

I notice as well that there are grants for trade unions, €900,000 for education and training and then other funding for amalgamation, amounting to almost €1 million altogether. I ask for a more detailed breakdown as to which individual trade unions got what.

Under which head?

The grants for trade unions, heads C4 and C6. What did the unions get, and is there any consideration of giving grants to, say, chambers of commerce on the other side, which are also very often under pressure and could do with a bit of assistance?

Can the Minister give me any indication as to whether any progress is being made under the casual and occasional trading licence legislation? There was public consultation in August 2018 under the Casual Trading Act 1995 and the Occasional Trading Act 1979 but there has been no movement since, even though we were led to believe there would be. These are small traders or casual traders or occasional traders and there are a lot of anomalies there and uncertainty about their rights and their situation. This legislation has been promised for quite a while. I am wondering whether there is any intention to move it on.

I am glad to see that Balance for Better Business is going well. I was involved in setting that up when I was in the Department of Justice and it is going quite well.

We are at virtually full employment, and the LEOs are doing fantastic work in that regard. Are LEOs being resourced or asked to focus on people with disabilities getting into employment? We had a report here earlier that stated that we are probably laggards in Europe with respect to people with disabilities at work, so I ask the Minister to focus on that. Maybe the LEOs are in a particular place to assist with that and maybe some funding should be made available for that. I refer also to people from disadvantaged backgrounds, migrants and people from the Traveller community. They also need that extra bit of assistance in getting support, so the Minister might focus on that.

In the past, I have mentioned - and our committee has done some work with Canada - the possible suggestion to open up an Ireland House office in Calgary. I know that a lot of good work is going on in Vancouver and on the other side of the country, the eastern side, but it is a vast country. Calgary is very important and, as I have said previously here, it might be useful to do that.

There is so much going on in the Department, so much excellent work, but those are just some of the niche issues on which I wanted to focus.

There were a lot of questions there, with respect. I will try to go through them all and give as many answers as I can.

On the Red Cross flooding scheme, I, as the Deputy knows, spent quite a bit of time in Midleton speaking to businesses that had been impacted by that flood. It was one of the most extreme flooding events I had seen in nearly 26 years in politics. Effectively, it triggered the need for the Government to introduce an enhanced flood support scheme through the Red Cross, which is what we have done, so we now have two schemes. We have the standard scheme, which allows businesses to get €5,000 upfront and then up to €20,000 in supports on the back of a proper audit and an assessment. Then we have the enhanced scheme for more extreme flooding incidents, whereby a business can get €10,000 upfront, although there is a checking system there linked to damage to make sure we are not overpaying. A business could also then claim on the back of an audit and an assessment up to €100,000, which is a fivefold increase on the previous scheme.

I felt it was justified and the Government supported me in that. We now have a good template for how the State needs to respond to flooding incidents, whether it is a standard cash injection to get businesses back up on their feet in respect of things like changing carpets, floors and so on, or whether it is a more extreme incident where businesses have significantly more damage and very limited or no insurance.

This week, I went back to the Cabinet to look for more money because the cost of the scheme has effectively doubled. We had anticipated this scheme would cost about €4.3 million and it will now cost around €11 million. We got approval to ensure that the Red Cross can continue its work and make the financial allocations. About 75% of the business are in Cork and the other ones are across Galway and Louth. There were other parts of the country as well that were part of those schemes.

We are trying to be as flexible and practical as possible with regard to the assistance while, at the same time, making sure the insurance industry plays its part too. We cannot have a situation where the insurance industry only offers limited insurance to businesses in some parts of the country because they feel the State will pick up the tab for the rest. There are parts of the country where it is not possible to get insurance because of flood plains, historical flood damage and so on, and until we put flood protections in place, that is unlikely to change. We are talking to the insurance industry and have done so. We are pushing hard to try to get flood defences in place. It is absolutely worth noting the difference between the towns in Cork that were badly damaged by floods and the towns that were not. Towns like Fermoy, Bandon, Skibbereen and Clonmel, where significant flood defences have been put in place in recent years by the OPW, are not getting flooded, even with the more intense rainfall we have seen in recent years, and that is because those flood schemes work. Therefore, we need to provide those protections in more towns that are potentially vulnerable, Midleton being an obvious one. There is a big priority for the Government to push ahead with that scheme as quickly as we can.

I hear what the Deputy is saying with regard to under-insurance. We have spoken to Red Cross representatives about that and have asked them to be practical. This is a humanitarian response, after all. There are parameters, of course, that the Red Cross has to operate within but it is also given flexibilities, within reason. To be fair, much flexibility has been shown for many businesses in Midleton. I know some feel a bit hard done because they have not been able to get more. However, there has probably been more flexibility shown in this particular flooding case than in any other I have been involved in. We will continue to work on that and work with businesses that want to relocate. I am happy to be helpful to those business through the agencies and any other way we can help.

On the Unified Patent Court, the Deputy has been a strong and consistent vocal advocate for getting on with this. We are now doing it, so I hope he will help us to get it across the line. I have been slow to be too public about explaining this referendum and the reasons behind it because I do not want to distract from the other two referendums that are happing before it in March. We need to get them across the line first. I do not want to create confusion in respect of what is being asked in three different referendums taking place over the next few months. As soon as the March referendums are out of the way, I intend to be very vocal in explaining what is on offer and the potential risks of not passing it, which are quite significant for Irish businesses. Roughly 550 patents are registered each year, with some companies registering multiple patents. In simple terms, we want businesses to be able to register a patent which will then have protections across the European Union, or at least the vast majority of it, through a single patent court. That makes a lot of sense in respect of efficiency and cost. It also allows us to take advantage of our place in the EU Single Market from an innovation and protection of IP perspective. There is no downside to doing this at all in my view. However, it requires a change in the Constitution. If we are going to set up an arm of the Unified Patent Court in Ireland, our court system has to accommodate that, and that requires a constitutional amendment.

Regarding the cost and the timelines around it, first of all, we are trying to get this passed and get the Irish people to approve it. We will then work with the Department of Justice and the Courts Service to get the physical infrastructure in place, which will not be too demanding, by the way. We are not talking about hundreds of thousands of cases. This will be an important office but not one that is dealing with enormous numbers. For the businesses concerned, it means they will be able to protect innovative new products and services right across the European Union at much lower cost. If they have to take a case because someone is breaching that IP protection in another EU member state, being able to do it through an arm of the Unified Patent Court in Ireland is much easier.

I hope people will support this. It seems like kind of a technical issue that will not impact on the lives of most people and families in Ireland. That is why we are holding it at the same time as the local and European election. I think we would struggle to get enough interest otherwise. When people are going to the polls in those elections, it makes sense to ask them to approve this.

On the IDA sites, I can give the Deputy the detail of what the IDA is doing in respect of regional sites if he wants me to. I know he is particularly interested in one site in east Cork, which is right at the centre of his constituency. I am familiar with that site, as he knows. I pass it on a regular basis. I continue to talk to the IDA about how we can use the larger sites we have strategically, and this one of them.

One of the things I have said to this committee before is that we will fund the IDA to undertake a strategic land purchase programme over the next number of years. We need to assemble new landbanks around the country for large and not-so-large multinationals coming to Ireland in the future to operate international business. We are running out of large sites. Looking at opportunities in places such as the Shannon Estuary, for example, we need to build publicly owned landbanks that the IDA can sell internationally in strategic locations that are well connected in respect of energy and water, and strategic from a university and skills perspective as well. The Amgen site, as it is called locally - which gives Amgen a lot of coverage every time people refer to the site – is part of the mix. East Cork is doing pretty well from an IDA perspective. There is enormous investment and huge employment there, and this can add further to that.

The Chair can stop me if I am going on a bit too much with regard to time.

We are over time already but fire away.

Okay. To give a sense of the Ukrainian credit guarantee scheme, which is the one that is still up and running, each lender must be able to demonstrate that the advantage of the State guarantee is passed on to the largest extent possible to borrowers. During the open call application process, lenders were required to demonstrate their proposed pricing reductions. Lenders now participating in the scheme are required to demonstrate such reductions in their legal arrangements with the Minister and to borrowers in their loan arrangements. Up to the end of November of last year, 1,804 loans with a value of €164 million were drawn, so it is not a small amount. Some 59% of loans had interest rates of 4.75% or less; 33% of loans had interest rates between 4.76% and 6%; and 8% of loans had interest rates above 6%.

This is effectively the State intervening to provide a certain level of guarantee to funds that are loaned out by financial institutions and, by doing so, trying to drive down the rates which they are costing against risk. It is working and will continue into this year.

We hope to launch the industrial strategy for offshore wind in the last week of March. We will probably need to have a draft to be completed certainly by the middle of February. Our team are under a little bit of pressure on that but it is a good piece of work. The offshore wind discussion is, of course, a climate, emissions and decarbonisation discussion, but it is also an industrial opportunity discussion that can generate an awful lot of new employment, jobs and sustainable industry, even for high energy-use industry such as semiconductor manufacturing and data centres. If there is an abundant source of clean, renewable energy coming onshore from the Irish Sea, the south coast, the Celtic Sea and up the west coast, there are huge opportunities for rebalancing the Irish economy away from a reliance on carbon-based fuels to a much more renewable and cleaner source of power. We will need more power in Ireland. The idea that we respond to our emissions challenge by just doing less activity and energy usage can be applied to some sectors, but if the Irish economy and Irish population are going to grow, we will need to shift a great deal more power usage onto the electricity grid, invest in that grid, ensure we have interconnection of that grid with other parts of Europe and, most importantly, ensure we are generating power for that grid from renewable sources, both onshore and offshore. If we do that, it will be a big part of our competitiveness proposition in the late 2020s and into the 2030s in attracting big industry and business from other parts of the world to Ireland and in facilitating Irish companies to grow.

There is no huge cost for now in putting the strategy together, apart, of course, from the team that are working on it, but there will be a cost to the State in how we respond to that industrial opportunity in infrastructure in parts of the country that can take significant advantage of that. In Waterford, for example, there is potentially a big opportunity in servicing offshore wind infrastructure out of the Port of Waterford. In the Shannon Estuary, there is the redevelopment of Foynes Port to make it suitable for the assembly of offshore wind infrastructure, particularly floating infrastructure because of the wet storage and depth which Foynes has. In Cork Harbour, for example, we will be expecting the Port of Cork to invest well over €100 million in new facilities to assemble predominantly fixed to the seabed offshore wind infrastructure. We want it to have that capacity in place by the middle of 2026. There are significant cost implications for the Government and for commercial State agencies, bodies and companies, but the industrial strategy needs to be in place first so that we understand what that looks like.

On the Digital Markets Act, there is a cost to this which I outlined earlier, and this is primarily a staffing and regulatory cost. We will have our digital services co-ordinator, as part of Coimisiún na Meán, in place by the time this legislation takes effect, post 17 February. We are under a bit of pressure to get that legislation finalised, ready and enacted in time. The Opposition has been very helpful in helping us meet that timeline to get the legislation in place. As I said earlier, we have allocated significant increases in financial resources to be able to take on more people. I think we will be taking on approximately 40 people in that office this year and more, probably, into next year.

On the work and employment permits, intercompany transfers and reunification of spouses, the Department of Justice is currently considering a change to facilitate spouses of people here under intercompany transfers permits. That is something the Deputy has raised on a number of occasions. We need to be careful that is not abused in any way, but it is appropriate that where people are moving within companies and have work permits to do so, we should not restrict that movement by not allowing people to bring their spouses with them. Often, to facilitate spouses coming, potentially they need to be allowed to work too. I am very open to and supportive of that as long as it is managed and confined to the right areas.

On grants to trade unions, €900,000 is allocated per annum to fund education and training for trade union representatives to assist in orderly industrial relations. There are training programmes that take place within trade unions so they can interact in a way that is informed in terms of industrial relations, the Workplace Relations Commission, the Department and so on. We continue to grant-aid trade unions to help them with the cost of that, which is appropriate. A sum of €60,000 is allocated per annum to a training fund to assist and support trade unions where they amalgamate.

Sorry, Minister, we are really running out of time. If you can conclude for the time being, that would be appreciated.

On the disability side, we are working with the other relevant Departments to try to do more in this space. I am very conscious of it. We do not have a high enough percentage of people with a disability in employment in Ireland, full stop, and we need to do better. There is actually a lot in place but it is clearly not enough. We need to measure success on the basis of outcomes rather than on what we have to offer. We need to keep offering more until the outcomes improve. It is as simple as that. I can perhaps come back to the Deputy on the other issues because I do not want to leave them out.

I thank the Minister. Deputy Shanahan has seven minutes.

I thank the Chair, and I thank the Minister and the officials for attending. I am under a little bit of pressure as I will be speaking in the House shortly. I thank the officials for coming here. I did not realise that there were so many - eight officials. It is very impressive. On that point, the Minister has covered a huge brief here today. I would welcome at some point engaging with some of his Department officials, and perhaps some of my colleagues would, to look at other issues we are not going to get to talk to today.

On the flooding issue, which was raised by my committee colleague, and he was very passionate about it, he did not mention any businesses in Waterford. There were businesses in Clashmore and Tallow that were also affected by the flooding. For the record, in excess of €7 million worth of damage was done to roads and infrastructure in west Waterford and the local authority has not at this point, as far as I know, received any additional capital moneys to remediate that. Perhaps the Minister might have a look at that.

The Department is one of the most important in the country simply because if we do not have enterprise, we do not have any revenue to support our public services and our population. A wide brief, as I have said, has been covered by the Minister and I look forward, perhaps, to a departmental briefing with senior officials.

I will touch on a couple of areas, one of which is SME supports. I will not go into that today except to say we in the Regional Group are bringing a motion next week to the Dáil on the SME community and what is happening in particular in the restaurant and hospitality sector.

I will speak for a minute on collective bargaining. I brought up in this forum last week what I would describe as the isolation of small businesses from the collective bargaining process.

It has been becoming more pertinent, particularly as the landscape is changing in terms of the employees of larger SMEs and large foreign direct investment, FDI, versus those that work out in the regions in the SME space. I have asked this question before and I want to put it on the record here again despite communication I have received from Taoiseach. Why can we not have ISME represented on the high-level governing body of the LEEF so that small business is absolutely represented? I do not take the view that the Small Firms Association, a subset of IBEC, is totally independent in terms of that point. Nor is Chambers Ireland. The voice of small business needs to be heard at the highest level in the LEEF.

I asked the Taoiseach, when he held the Minister's brief earlier in the lifetime of the Government, why a south-eastern development commission could not be established. The same is being done in other regions in order to try to provide cohesive, strategic policy analysis and access to high-level governmental applied research, reviewing and lobbying.

The other point I have made - and I will make it again - is that we need an SME development agency. We have one for exporters, one for indigenous SMEs that are exporting and one for FDI and we do not have one for SME development. I do not take the view, despite the great work they are doing, that the local enterprise offices, LEOs, fit into that groove completely.

Another matter that the Minister touched on briefly - we do not have time to go into it here - is FDI supports. In the south-east region - I am sorry for doing it, but I have to represent my region - the South East Technological University project has not moved one tangible inch, realistically, in terms of bringing the benefits the Minister said it would bring. There has been no extension to the borrowing framework, no change to the lecturers' contracts, no new courses or facilities announced, no funding for student accommodation and no funding for any capital development. An engineering building has been promised since 2011 - it has still not been approved - under a public private partnership, PPP, arrangement. Of all of these , the key one is the borrowing framework. If this technological university cannot borrow, it cannot advance. No exception is being made whatsoever in the programme for Government for the fact that the south east has no university to fall back on. This is it, and it is not working for us.

On research and innovation, I will be contributing to the Second Stage debate of a Bill that will be before the House later. It appears that there is significant bias in that legislation in terms of looking for high-level research to be the preserve of the PhD area. That will tend to exclude the technological gateways. I will be speaking on that matter in the House later, but it is something I would like to highlight here. I am of the view that there is a problem in this area.

There are two other issues I wish to raise. The Minister referenced modular home development and the new innovation centre in Offaly. I brought to the attention of the Department two modular home development companies that were trying to access fast-track standardisation. They have both left the market here. They have had enough and they are gone. They saw it as too difficult. They have approved products that are being sold across Europe and America, yet we have to walk them through a process that is going to take them between 12 and 18 months to get their products approved. That is totally unacceptable, particularly if we are serious about the housing crisis.

On offshore wind industrial policy, we are waiting for a hydrogen strategy to be announced. I have not seen it. I note that a designated area maritime plan for the south-east region seems to have been agreed by the climate Department. It is to be published very shortly. It would appear that a lot of that is going to put fixed-bottom wind turbines probably within 4 miles of the Copper Coast. I certainly would have a problem with that. I am asking that this be looked at seriously before we go ahead and publish the strategy.

On the flood damage, parts of east Waterford were included in that scheme. The businesses there were supported in the same way as businesses in Galway, Louth and Cork were. I can assure the Deputy there was no preferential treatment on the basis of geography. The Red Cross has supported businesses in the same way, regardless of where the damage has occurred. Infrastructure damage is a different issue. It is up to local authorities to make a case or an application to the Department of local government and, ultimately, to the Department of Transport for infrastructure that has been damaged significantly by flooding. I think Cork County Council is in a similar space to Waterford in terms of putting physical infrastructure back in place, including roads, bridges, drainage systems and so on. I suspect the Government will respond in a generous way to reasonable asks in that regard.

I am more than happy for the Deputy to be briefed by officials in the Department on any aspect that he might be interested in. This brief is a much wider one than many people realise in terms of the different areas that we are involved in. Obviously, the agencies have a huge part to play in economic development in Ireland, given the number of people that work for companies that are supported by IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland or the LEOs. Between 550,000 and 560,000 people are employed in either Enterprise Ireland or IDA Ireland companies, which is a significant number. I am conscious of that.

A huge number of SME supports are in place. Some of these are in the form of innovation vouchers, some in the form of mentoring, some in the form of venture capital funding and some in the form of advice and direction through the LEOs. There are a huge number of decarbonisation and sustainability green schemes as well. Some of them are low-cost funds. SMEs can access a significant suite of supports which, obviously, we need to constantly improve. They are available. As I have said, many SMEs can get LEO supports when they would not have previously been able to do so because they would not have qualified. In other words, they might employ 15, 20 or 30 people. As long as they are manufacturing and-or exporting, they can get support through LEOs, whether they are soft or direct financial supports.

There is a role for collective bargaining. However, I do not accept the assertion that SMEs do not have say in terms of being listened to by Government. They do. We have an enterprise forum. We also have a tourism and hospitality forum, which met last week. I interact on multiple levels with SMEs and, indeed, with ISME on those platforms. The LEEF is not the only form of interaction. There are multiple Departments that interact on the LEEF, including the Department of the Taoiseach. It works reasonably well at the moment. I am open to ISME potentially being a part of that, but I want to make sure that we keep the effectiveness of the LEEF system that is working quite well at the moment. It is important to say that is only one discussion platform that we have.

Is it the most high-level one?

I am not sure, but it is certainly one of them. I have had this discussion with ISME and I have an open mind on it. Ultimately, it will be a call for the Taoiseach, who chairs the LEEF.

We do have a regional enterprise plan for the south east. I do not think we should set up something that would duplicate effort there by setting up a development commission. We have people who are committed to raising the profile of issues in the south east. I have a copy of a response to a parliamentary question that I think will be helpful. The south-east regional enterprise plan is overseen and monitored at a regional level by a steering committee made up of stakeholders from Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford and Wexford. There is a lot of activity in the region in support of the plan. Rosslare Europort and Waterford Port are progressing their ambitious plans to develop their facilities. There is a €200 million offshore renewable energy hub in the context of Rosslare Europort. A stakeholder group has been formed to focus on the additional skills needed, the regional supply chain, marketing and industrial requirements and the opportunities arising from this.

Elsewhere, funding has been secured through the regional enterprise innovation scoping schemes, REISS, to advance the financial services centre of excellence and the south east. A project manager has been appointed. Funding was also secured through REISS and other funding to further advance the life sciences, innovation, research and development ecosystem in the south east.

My Department oversees the implementation of the plans at a national level. Together with the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, and the Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, I attended a regional enterprise plan national oversight group meeting on 26 October. I could go on. There are many other things going on.

I have heard Deputy Shanahan say before that the south east is being left behind, etc., but actually, the numbers would not suggest that the south east is being left behind at all-----

With respect, what I am talking about doing is forming something by statute, not through informal groupings, stakeholders and businesspeople. I think that was correctly identified-----

If we form something by statute, we will set a precedent and we will have to do it for every other region.

One of the Minister's predecessors, Michael Noonan, put that position in play very effectively, as did Enda Kenny. I do not see why we could not have that architecture in place when it was good enough for the western region, which is a disadvantaged region, and when we are one of the poorest performing regions in the country at the moment. I fail to see why that would be a problem and why the Government will not support that.

I do not think the south east is a poorly performing region, actually.

I am afraid the statistics would support the contention that it is.

If you look at the job creation we have seen through Enterprise Ireland and the IDA, you will see that this is a region that is growing and has had more employment than before. It continues to grow.

The South East Technological University is a work in progress. The south east has a university now and it did not before. This Government and previous governments promised that we would deliver on that, and we have. Now, we have to back that up with investment, just like we have to invest in the Munster Technological University in terms of campus development, etc. The Government is committed to doing the same for the South East Technological University, which is a success story but needs to grow and become more successful. Having a university in the south east is essential to attract the kinds of research programmes and companies we want to see in the south-east region. The south east has huge competitive advantages, such as Rosslare Europort, which has become a much busier hub for trade since Brexit. There are big developments, such as in the north quays in the city of Waterford, in which the State is investing as well. While I totally accept that the Deputy needs to be a strong voice for the south east and for Waterford, the Government is actually delivering a lot for both.

I do not mean to be adversarial, but I will point out two pieces of data. First, the recent CSO figures show that the discretionary spend in the south east is 40% behind the east coast. I think that would equate to a difference. The level of job creation might be good, and the quality of the jobs is good. Second, and the Minister has said this himself, is the need for the university. I would say to the Minister that no exceptionalism is being offered by the Government at all to the region in terms of third level. That has not changed. We are now three and a half or four years into the technological university process and there has been no capital development.

Most importantly, I ask the Minister to bring to his colleagues the concept of changing the borrowing framework and allowing the TUs to compete properly and effectively. They should also change the lecturers’ contracts and the executive paradigm that has been discussed ad nauseam with the Department. They have not done that. Until the Minister does that, they are not going to take the ankle chains off the executives down there.

As the Deputy knows only too well, it is not as easy as simply removing borrowing restrictions. In the past, the Government has introduced restrictions on borrowing decisions for good reasons. This was because many educational institutions got into a lot of financial difficulty. We need to make sure that whatever we do works and is sustainable financially. However, I agree with the Deputy that technological universities need to be able to see investment, such as through student accommodation and research facilities, so they can develop as innovative university campuses. That is something I do not disagree with the Deputy on. In the south east, there are 15,300 jobs supported by IDA clients. If the Deputy wants, we can get the figures in relation to Enterprise Ireland and the LEOs as well. However, that is not an insignificant contribution to the national economy.

On the issue of offshore wind, I think the Government now has clarity on how the offshore wind industry is going to develop. It will be a State-led process in terms of planning. That has been a source of frustration for some developers, but it is the right thing to do to avoid legal challenges at a later stage and so we can make sure this investment actually happens and is not frustrated.

In the medium to long term, there will undoubtedly be a mix of fixed and floating offshore wind. In the short term, the current rounds have seen a prioritisation of fixed, because it is much cheaper and it is more proven technology. However, I have no doubt that floating wind projects will also happen in time, particularly off the west coast, and also potentially off the south coast. That is a big opportunity for counties such as Cork, Waterford and Kerry. I think those are all the questions.

The modular home development was the last piece.

Sorry, yes. What was the question on that?

The Minister spoke about the innovation centre in County Offaly. I made the point that a number of companies have tried to engage with the Department to bring in modular homes, but the standards approval process for their products is taking so long that they have just decided to look elsewhere. One company in particular, which is very large, spent a bit of time here scoping out the Irish market, but it has decided to cut and run.

Let me just give the Deputy some data on that. So far-----

On a point of order, I do not think that the time allocations are being followed and I have a hard stop at 11.20 a.m.

My apologies there.

I will share the data with the Deputy, but a lot is being approved.

Given my time constraint, the Minister might be able to respond in writing.

First, I congratulate the Minister, his Department and the agencies on the progress they have made. In 2011, IDA companies were employing less than half the figure they are employing today. That is extraordinary progress. I refer also to Enterprise Ireland, where we have gone from 320,000 jobs to 560,000, which is really an extraordinary success. It would be appropriate to congratulate Julie Sinnamon and Terence O'Rourke, who were the two key people for much of that time. Frank Ryan and Martin Shanahan were also key players in those agencies. They did extraordinary work. I would describe it as patriotic, given the context of the situation in which we found ourselves.

Second, there is a sense out there among low-margin, high-employment businesses - particularly those that do not have the opportunity to engage in remote working and are customer-facing - that cost pressures are excessive at the moment. We need to think more creatively than just raising the issue of VAT rates. Perhaps this might be a matter of lower rates of PRSI for some companies that are in low-margin, high-employment sectors. That has been a feature of the PRSI system in the past. It seems to me that a different kind of business environment is emerging. It is hard to recruit in these sectors because they are always customer-facing and they are less attractive. I absolutely agree that we need to protect those employments. Covid showed that many of them were not adequately protected. The responses to that through changing the living wage, sick pay, etc. are absolutely right for the sectors. Yet, there is an issue of adaptation that needs to be considered. Representatives from the Low Pay Commission were before the committee and it certainly seemed that they envisaged that the Government will be looking at some of the pressure points that this will create.

While the rates concession is welcome, there may be a remaining issue.

Having come from years in opposition looking at Estimates, I would ask the Minister to consider the 75 indicators of outputs and outcomes. It seems that they are no longer appropriate to the sorts of challenge we face. Indeed, many of them forecast outcomes by agencies declining compared to their existing levels of achievement. More importantly, there are no sustainability measures. Sustainability will be key to competitiveness, as we have heard from the Minister’s own agencies. There is a very low rate of uptake of green initiatives by the enterprise stable. The number of high-potential start-ups is not an adequate measure of how good we are at starting up businesses and ensuring they are competitive and relevant. We need to be a little more forensic. Quite an amount of effort will go into producing the 75 indicators, but if they are not the right ones, much of that effort will be wasted. Other Departments are the same. They churn out these indicators without giving them any real thought and the indicators are not assisting us in deciding whether the Estimates and allocations are optimal.

An issue arose during the week at the climate committee, with it being EirGrid’s view that large energy users being unable to get connections was unsustainable. There has been a significant focus on data centres as the villains of the piece, but we are in a limbo whereby, even though electricity demand is only growing by 2.5% per annum, we are effectively telling potential players in the digital world that Ireland is not a good place to come because they cannot get connections. We need to sort ourselves out in this regard. We have pressures on our energy supply. From EirGrid’s analysis, that essentially has to do with the failure of the market mechanism to generate successful auctions. We are not paying enough for some of the gas standby capacity to come on stream. If the consequence of that is us undermining some key elements of our enterprise strategy, then it is a mistake. The Minister rightly pointed to offshore as presenting a significant opportunity, but the most efficient use of our offshore assets will be for domestic-based enterprises, not attempts to convert it into hydrogen or something else for export. We need to get our ducks in a row on this.

My final point concerns a recurring theme that I always raise with the Minister. His Department takes an exceptionally narrow view of what climate responsibility represents. The Department essentially only looks at the cement industry and one or two other tiny sectors in terms of what the enterprise sector contributes to the climate challenge. The reality is that we need a sustainability strategy for the key sectors, those being, food and construction, as the Minister rightly stated, as well as many others. The concept of enterprise not sitting at the table and trying to drive the sustainability agenda in a much more focused way is a missed opportunity. We need to pull together the entire supply chain in food and construction in particular, as they are the top two sectors with a negative impact on our carbon emissions through food waste, the way in which we produce food and so on. We need to get all of the players around the table instead of pointing fingers, especially at the farming sector. It is interesting that people are now discussing how we need sustainable agriculture and resilient food as a climate adaptation strategy. Rather than pointing fingers at farmers, we should be creating an environment in which they get paid for quality, low-impact food production. They do not currently, and we do not yet have the necessary instruments in place. We need a bigger tent around sectors like construction and food, which pose the main sustainability challenges for us as a country. The Minister’s Department must be more strategic. If I table a parliamentary question, I will be told that construction is for the Department of housing and that industry’s responsibility for carbon is solely the tiny percentage of emissions that come from cement and small elements of manufacturing. This might have been a bit of a rant, but we need to think more imaginatively and across silos more if we are to get some of these strategies in place.

My apologies, as I have to leave at 11.20 a.m. It was worth waiting to say a few words.

The Deputy is a patient man, having waited as long as he has. I will try to answer his questions quickly. He knows this Department well.

I agree with the Deputy that the IDA and Enterprise Ireland have done Ireland an extraordinary service, particularly over the past decade or so when the economy was under real stress and pressure. They provided guidance and a supportive and pro-enterprise environment for multinationals to continue growing here and providing significant tax income for the Government to be able to support many families that were under pressure during some of those years, particularly throughout Covid and in the post-recession period of 2011 to 2013. The people leading those organisations have done an incredible job. That puts a great deal of pressure on the new generation of leaders in those organisations to continue that work. I assure the committee that there is no shortage of ambition there.

Regarding low margins and high employment levels, particularly among those employing a large percentage of their workforces on relatively low pay, there is pressure. I am not suggesting that the only solution is to consider the VAT rate again. There are people who are lobbying on that basis, but there are other tools we can use. I would not like to row back on some of the progressive changes to workers’ rights we have made in terms of sick pay, a basic minimum wage, moving towards a living wage, parental leave, etc. All of those individual policy decisions were the right ones and involved a great deal of consultation, with input from employers, trade unions and various representative bodies. There is a pressure point in certain segments of the economy that are feeling the cost increase. Despite the fact that inflation is slowing down and energy and food wholesale costs are falling, those segments are still under a great deal of pressure. From what I have seen, well-run businesses in certain sectors are finding that they simply cannot carve out a margin. We must consider how we can respond to this. We will do so. When it is finalised, I wish to share with committee members the work that the Department has done in this regard.

Regarding the measure of outputs and outcomes, I am told that we have many more metrics in the Revised Estimates. The Deputy will not be surprised to know that. We review our metrics every year. We will take on board some of his suggestions, but we do not accept his comments as they relate to metrics like job creation, innovation, collaboration, etc. Regarding the regulatory measures that are being introduced, I outlined in my opening statement the incredible extra amount of work that the regulatory bodies that my Department is responsible for are doing, particularly on the shift towards the management of a digital single market, online safety and so on. There are many metrics in that space. However, I take the Deputy’s criticism on board.

We should be more upfront about that in the metrics we make available to the committee.

I share the concern on EirGrid. We cannot build an economy that is built on digital platforms if we cannot efficiently manage and store data in Ireland. That means efficiently run and sustainable data centres in the future. There is work to do to provide more clarity to the industry that Ireland is an enterprise-friendly place to invest and will facilitate reasonable requests around grid connection under the right circumstances. We do have a policy statement from Government, which is Government policy on data centres. The Cabinet subcommittee on the economy is looking specifically at this issue at the moment. I will be meeting the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, hopefully in the next few days, along with his officials and mine to see whether we can resolve some of the outstanding issues that are creating frustration among some industry developers and so on from a data centre perspective. That does not mean we have an open door policy for every data centre that wants to be created. We do not. There is an onus on the developers of data centres to show that these centres can be powered sustainably in the future, that they are part of the decarbonisation plan and that they are located where there is resilience in the grid where they can get gas connection and so on. However, the idea that we are sending out a message that if people want to develop a sustainable data centre, they cannot do it in Ireland is something that is not acceptable to me. We need to work with EirGrid, the utilities regulator and, of course, the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications to make sure we have the right balance there. That work is under way, by the way, and there are good conversations taking place.

It is not just data centres, by the way. It is other high energy users as well, whether it is semiconductor manufacturing or whatever or, indeed, pharmaceuticals. The Deputy suggested that we take an exceptionally narrow view on climate. We do not, actually. That may well be the official answer people sometimes get in response to parliamentary questions but I can assure the Deputy in that regard. The cement sector is an important sector that needs to be part of this challenge as 40% of industrial emissions come from that one sector. Approximately 5% of total emissions in Ireland come from that one sector, so we do have to make progress on cement. However, it certainly is not the only challenge at which we are looking. Both Enterprise Ireland, EI, and the Industrial Development Authority, IDA, have very clearly said they are going to work with their client base to decarbonise. They want to start with the high emitters, which is the obvious place to start in terms of getting results and meeting targets. However, it is right the way down to local enterprise offices now, working with small businesses and helping and advising them in terms of how they can put a decarbonisation plan in place and providing financial supports and vouchers to help them do that and also to invest.

If the Deputy looks at the new solar panel grant aid scheme, for example, that applies to all businesses, a business can get up to €36,000 from the State now in terms of grant aid towards solar panels if its project is big enough in terms of roof space. We are now moving into a space in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment that actually sees decarbonisation and climate targets as part of competitiveness in the Irish economy that should apply to all sectors.

That is why members will hear me talking over and over again about the twin transition of decarbonisation and digitalisation. Any businesses that ignore it will find themselves in a very difficult trading space in the next few years. This is an essential part of the transition that every business needs to think about now. Maybe we need to be a bit more public about that, however. We have travelled around the country talking about the twin challenges of carbonisation. We have had nine or ten different meetings trying to get businesses to focus on this. We are taking a much broader view now with regard to climate and the role we play in it. That is why I insisted, for example, on this Department leading on the industrial strategy for offshore wind. That is central to the broader climate and energy challenge as well.

Would the Minister consider a circular economy lead for his Department on food and construction for starters?

The Deputy has been a very consistent voice on the circular economy. I have a long note on the circular economy in anticipation of the question. I will send it on to the Deputy.

I think I nearly persuaded the Minister for agriculture to come on board too.

I will send it on to the Deputy.

The Minister might excuse me because I have to go, unfortunately. I have a hard stop outside the House. I thank the Minister very much indeed.

We now have a circular economy strategy, a circular economy programme, a national food waste prevention roadmap and a circular economy fund. These are all provided for in the Circular Economy and Miscellaneous Provisions Act from a couple of years ago. We need to deliver on that now and I am sure this committee will hold us to account on it.

I thank the Minister very much.

I will make three very brief points.

Very quickly, Deputy.

I know. I have been here from the very start.

The Deputy has had 35 minutes as well.

I will be very brief. I understand that the idea is to support a proposal to open a full border control post in the Ringaskiddy ferry terminal and that 2,000 containers per year could benefit. It could be worth a lot of money to the country. The Minister might tell me if he is aware of that and whether he is supporting that proposal from the Port of Cork to do that. That is one question.

I asked a while ago about the casual and occasional trading licence legislation, which was to update the Casual Trading Act 1995 and Occasional Trading Act 1979. There was a public consultation in 2018. Is there any proposal to bring that forward? Finally, I will mention my old chestnut regarding having an Ireland house in Calgary. Has any consideration been given to that since?

Apparently, we are engaging with local authorities on the casual trading licences. I will have to check where it is at around timelines and so on.

The border control post in the Port of Cork is about facilitating more access to international trade in terms of efficiency. I will maybe get an update from the Port of Cork in terms of where it is at. The Port of Cork has a lot to do at the moment and its staff are busier than they have ever been. My understanding is that there is a border control post there. Let me get the updated position for the Deputy, however. I do not want to give him an answer off the top off my head.

And the Calgary issue.

That will primarily be a choice for the Department of Foreign Affairs, to be honest. We will input into that. What I would say is that trade with Canada has increased significantly since the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, CETA, has been implemented, even in the absence of it being finally approved in Ireland, which is something I would like to do. However, I would like to see more investment in the opportunity for further growth in Canada. There is a huge Irish population there and a huge young Irish population there. It is a country and an economy that has a lot in common with Ireland and it is a very easy place to do business. I am not against what the Deputy is suggesting, but we would need to do a bit of work with the Department of Foreign Affairs to see if we are going to increase the footprint across Canada and on where to next, whether it is going to be Calgary or somewhere else.

The opportunities are enormous.

I thank the Deputy and Minister. I will make a quick comment on the unified patent court. I welcome the decision to have a date for the referendum. I encourage the Minister and his Department or whoever it will be to have the best campaign we can have on that and to explain it in an appropriate way. We must make sure we have all the stakeholders involved, which would include the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, and Irish Business Employers Confederation, IBEC, because it is quite technical. We have had much discussion on it here in the committee. It is quite technical and complicated. We do not want it to get lost in the debate. It is important for Ireland and especially for business that we get it passed.

In conclusion, I thank the Minister, Deputy Coveney, and his officials for assisting the committee in its consideration of the Revised Estimates. As we have now completed our consideration of the Revised Estimates for Vote 32, the clerk to the committee will send a message to that effect to the Clerk of the Dáil in accordance with Standing Order 101. Under Standing Order 101(2), the message is deemed to be the report of this committee. That completes our consideration of the Revised Estimates. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The imeachtaí of the committee's meeting on 17 January have been circulated. Do members have any comments? Are they agreed? Agreed.

Top
Share