Amendment No. 69 is in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 71 is cognate and those amendments may be taken together by agreement. Agreed.
SECTION 79.
Chairman
I move amendment No. 69:
In page 109, line 15, to delete "Revenue".
This is purely a technical amendment.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 70:
In page 109, line 16, to delete "authorised by them to exercise" and substitute "exercising".
I am endeavouring to be helpful to the Revenue authorities in the pursuance of their duties. It has been brought to my attention that almost every time a case is brought to court by an authorised officer of the Revenue or Customs and Excise an inordinate amount of time is spent satisfying the court as to the authority of the officer to do what he did, e.g. searching, warning, etc. Eminent barristers like Deputy McDowell ask officers who signed the authorisation, if the person was a Revenue Commissioner, if he might have retired as a commissioner, if he was an authorised officer; sometimes the official is even asked if the authorised person is in court to prove he exists. Many cases have been thrown out as a result of this.
This small change from "authorised by them to exercise" to "exercising" will get over that problem. The officer will be authorised to do this, without having to be authorised by someone else. It will help the Customs and Excise officials to respond to eminent barristers who are also Deputies. The inordinate amount of time spent in court will be reduced and there will be more successful prosecutions. I understand the Revenue Commissioners have lost many cases, particularly in the District Court, because this debate had taken place and it had not been possible to prove the person was there. This amendment would get over that problem in one smart move.
I appreciate the motivation behind the Deputy's amendment and it is offered in a helpful manner. I have consulted with senior officials in the Revenue Commissioners and my Department. I was in Deputy McCreevy's position in 1992 when extensive powers were given to Revenue following on or in anticipation of the completion of the internal market. The concerns expressed at that time make the current sense of outrage of the Law Society and the accountants in regard to Section 153 sound somewhat muted. There were grave fears Revenue would take people out of their beds in the middle of the night.
In my briefing session with senior officials from Revenue on Monday I was told they wanted to be conscious of how they exercised what are substantial powers. In respect of the exercise of their functions in these excise areas officials will be specifically authorised and will have a card of identification and authorisation to ensure these substantial powers can only be exercised under strict management control. It will not be a general power that will extend to all Revenue Commissioners and Excise officials by virtue of their employment.
I am advised, on the second point, that the Revenue Commissioners are not aware of the substantial number of legal cases lost for the reasons the Deputy gave. If he has specific references, we could certainly look at them but my advice — and I have to take it because I am not an expert in this area — is that this power is not considered by the Revenue Commissioners as necessary, notwithstanding the good underlying motivation.
Deputy McCreevy made a good point but I understand the Minister's position. I used to prosecute for the Customs and Excise, so I will not take lip from the Deputy. It seems to me that, in many cases, proving all the trivial details is rather a nuisance. The Minister should consider, for Report Stage, meeting Deputy McCreevy's point and putting down an amendment which states that in a prosecution, or in any court proceedings, a statement by an officer that he is an authorised officer is sufficient proof until the contrary is shown. The requirement to produce a warrant of authority goes and removes problems for a retired officer who has not renewed his warrant.
Chairman
Will the Minister agree to consider that for Report Stage?
I will. It is being offered in a constructive way and I am taking it in a constructive way.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
I move amendment No. 71:
In page 109, line 17, to delete "Revenue".
Amendment agreed to.
Section 79, as amended, agreed to.
NEW SECTION.
Chairman
Amendment No. 72, in the name of the Minister, proposes to insert a new section. Amendments Nos. 74, 75 and 77 are consequential on Amendment No. 72 and may, by agreement, be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed. Acceptance of amendment No. 72 involves deletion of section 80 of the Bill and its replacement with a new section.
I move amendment No. 72:
In page 109, before section 80, to insert the following new section:
80.—(1) An officer in uniform may stop any vehicle—
(a) in or on which excisable products or any other products chargeable with a duty of excise are being transported or in which or on which it is reasonably believed by the officer that such products are being transported, or
(b) for the purpose of examining and taking samples of any fuel in or on, or in anything attached to, the vehicle for use or capable of being used for combustion in its engine.
(2) An officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána may stop any vehicle for any purpose related to vehicle registration tax or the registration of vehicles in the register maintained under Chapter IV of Part II of the Act of 1992.
(3) Any person in charge of a moving vehicle shall, at the request of an officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána, stop the vehicle.
(4) Any person in charge of a vehicle shall, at the request of an officer and on production of the authorisation of the officer if so requested by any person affected—
(a) allow the officer or any officer accompanying that officer to take samples of any fuel on or in the vehicle or in anything attached to the vehicle,
(b) allow the vehicle to be examined by the officer or accompanying officer,
(c) allow the officer or accompanying officer to carry out such searches of the vehicle as appear to the officer or accompanying officer to be necessary to establish—
(i) whether any excisable products being transported in or on, or in any manner attached to, the vehicle correspond in every material respect with the description of any such products in a document referred to in paragraph (f), or
(ii) whether anything being transported is liable to forfeiture under the law relating to excise,
(d) furnish, within such time and in such form and manner as may be specified by the officer or accompanying officer, all such information in relation to the vehicle as may reasonably be required by the officer or accompanying officer and is in the possession or procurement of the person,
(e) within such time and in such manner as may be specified by the officer or accompanying officer, produce and permit his or her inspection of and taking of copies of, or of extracts from, all such books and documents relating to the vehicle and any products referred to in subsection (1) (a) being transported as aforesaid as are reasonably required by the officer or accompanying officer and are in the possession or procurement of the person, and
(f) produce to the officer or accompanying officer any accompanying document, duty document (within the meaning, in each case, of Chapter II of Part II of the Act of 1992), or other document referred to in section 111 of that Act, accompanying any excisable products being transported in or on, or in any manner attached to, the vehicle.
(5) A person who resists, obstructs or impedes an officer or a member of the Garda Síochána in the exercise of any power conferred on the officer or member or fails or refuses to comply with a request under subsection (3) or (4) shall, without prejudice to any other penalty to which he or she may be liable, be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to a penalty, under the law relating to excise, of £1,000.".
This section involves a substitute section and, essentially, it is necessary to restate and retain the powers accorded to the Garda in relation to vehicle registration tax in section 142 of the Finance Act, 1992. Section 80, as presented in the Bill, deals only with the powers of office of the Revenue Commissioners. Section 90 proposes that, as specified in the Sixth Schedule to the Bill, subsections (1), (2) and (3) of section 142 of the Finance Act, 1992, be repealed. Accordingly, to retain the status quo, it is necessary to amend section 80 in respect of the existing Garda powers. I am told it necessary to extend the powers to stop vehicles to facilitate the control of substitute motor fuels, including those referred to as biofuels. Provisions for charging excise duty on these products is dealt with in section 103 of the Bill and largely corresponds to the provisions for taxation of other motor fuels. It is, therefore, appropriate that the powers to stop reflect the need for a similar degree of control.
I suggest, in relation to subsection (3), that there is a similar obligation to stop in the Road Traffic Acts but it was changed, I believe, in 1968. There was an obligation to keep a vehicle stationary for a sufficient length of time to enable an officer to carry out his duties. However, there was a loophole where a person could stop, say he had stopped and then drive off.
I will take note of that and, if necessary we may amend it on Report Stage. It is useful.
Who are these officers in uniform? I never see them. Has the Minister many officers in the Customs and Excise uniform?
There are mobile patrols. They are not highly evident in Dublin south-east because people there are very compliant but they are in other parts of the country.
They certainly would not be recognised if they jumped out in front of somebody in Dublin south-east.
Are they in uniform?
I am told they are in uniform and in marked cars. One can see them around coastal areas.
They must have no petrol for their cars because I have never seen them.
Amendment put and agreed to.
Section 80 deleted.