Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs debate -
Thursday, 12 Oct 1995

SECTION 2.

Mr. Howlin

I move amendment No. 4:

In page 8, between lines 8 and 9, to insert the following:

"Council Directive 89/369/EEC of 8 June, 1989 on the prevention of air pollution from new municipal waste incineration plants 9."

This is a technical amendment to ensure that certain small-scale incinerators of non-hazardous waste, which are not subject to licensing under the current Environmental Protection Agency Act, can be made subject to licensing under the Bill if this is considered appropriate.

The facilities in question are at present licensable under the Air Pollution Act, 1987 but in practice none is currently in existence in Ireland. The amendment is therefore a technical measure to include those on a contingency basis. It may never have practical effect but it is important that this should be covered.

Mr. Sargent

In the experience of people dealing with incinerators, does the Environmental Protection Agency Act prevent them from appealing environmental aspects of proposed incinerators in the courts? For instance, it is sometimes ruled to be a matter for the Environmental Protection Agency, not for the planning authority. Will the Environmental Protection Agency overrule this directive in that light? Can the Minister have a look at that? The effect of the Environmental Protection Agency Act in taking the environmental criteria from the planning authority is that local groups with the interests of their communities at heart have to double up their efforts in that any appeal they lodge must be dealt with on a planning and an environmental basis. I am asking the Minister that question in the context of this amendment which talks about licensing for waste incineration plants.

Mr. Howlin

We are getting into an area of analysis of the environmental damage or otherwise of any proposal. The whole thrust of opinion over recent years was to build up an expert agency. Not all planning authorities are half equipped to make determinations. The idea of requiring licensing from a competent professional and resourced agency, linked into the best international practice, is environmentally the soundest way of doing things.

Any environmental protection licence given is subject to the courts under the normal criteria. A legal challenge can be made on a point of law about a licence issued by the Environmental Protection Agency as it can on any planning decision by a local authority.

Mr. Sargent

I would like to clarify what the Minister has said. The Minister is making a fair point except that an expert opinion should be available before the plant is built rather than dealing with it after the event. That has been the problem and worry that people have had. Maybe that could be taken on board.

Mr. Dempsey

I will be tabling an amendment at a later stage of this Bill precisely in relation to the point we are discussing. One will not be able to challenge a planning application on environmental grounds where a waste licence has already been granted. I accept the principle of what the Minister is saying but before we get to that section he should give a little more thought to a more integrated approach. We either have a public system of deciding on licences, similar to the planning system, or we will have to change our planning laws. It is something that we can discuss on section 54.

Mr. Howlin

I do not want to preempt decisions on a later section.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 2, as amended, agreed to.