Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs debate -
Thursday, 12 Oct 1995

SECTION 9.

Mr. Dempsey

I move amendment No. 34:

In page 17, subsection (2), line 3, after "corporate." to insert "This section shall also apply to pubic authorities and their personnel.".

This is one of the most fundamental changes we are proposing to the Bill. I am surprised that we have to table amendments such as this. The amendment is being proposed on the basis of equal treatment for everyone who generates waste. We believe no one generator of waste should be more favourably treated than another.

The Minister may point out that there is a later section in the Bill which deals with local authorities. However, I believe they should be included in this section which deals with offences that might occur under the provisions of the Bill. The Minister, speaking both within and outside the House, has emphasised that the public sector should give the lead in relation to all aspects of this Bill. Local authorities and Departments are probably some of the largest generators of waste paper. Most Members in this House receive enough paper in a week to fill the rooms they occupy. The provisions of this section should pertain to Departments and local authorities.

State and semi-State companies, which are also bodies corporate in terms of my definition, are often in direct competition with private companies and should not have an advantage in respect of the Bill. There should be no excuses, no exceptions; everyone should be treated equally. The imposition of provisions, in this section, on everyone would increase standards and set a good example. I ask the Minister to take this amendment on board.

Miss Quill

I support this amendment. At Question Time a number of months ago I raised the issue of the amount of paper which issues from Departments and the effect it has on our offices. There are times when my office resembles a Santry landfill because I receive so much paper from all sides. If I were to deal with it in the manner intended by the generators of this paper I would have time to do nothing else. The principle of waste prevention should be stringently applied in every Department and by every public authority. By so doing we could significantly decrease the amount of waste we generate. We could also give the kind of leadership now required by other agencies — and the country in general — to harness their goodwill to put the provisions of the Bill in place.

I wish to make a point in relation to the way public works programmes are organised in towns and cities, in the opening up of roads and footpaths. Very often a local authority will put a new footpath in place in the first six months of the year. Sometime later in the year An Bord Gáis might open it up again, and it has to be repaired only to be opened up again later by the ESB or another body. This lack of co-ordination between public bodies is the public face of waste. Perhaps this Bill is not the means to address this issue but it has to be addressed.

We must seek to eliminate waste from the face of our cities and towns. The public is cynical about this because this is how it sees its money spent. We must put a requirement on public authorities in the delivery of public utilities to be conscious of this. Bad practices of the past cannot be taken into the future if we are to be serious about overall changes in attitudes to waste and its prevention. If this is what Deputy Dempsey had in mind in his amendment I ask the Minister to respond positively to it.

Chairman

I support the sentiments behind this amendment. It is a question of who polices the police. The worst offenders against some local authority legislation are the local authorities — I have the Derelict Sites Act, 1990, particularly in mind. Some of the worst derelict sites are caused by local authorities.

Miss Quill

That is right.

A Deputy

And the Office of Public Works.

Chairman

Local authorities are the worst. I hope the Minister is sympathetic to the sentiments expressed.

Mr. Howlin

I am very much in sympathy with the views expressed. The purpose of this Bill is to bring local authorities under a monitoring agency. For the first time they will be responsible to the Environmental Protection Agency for the operation of landfill sites and their general management of waste. There will be an outside independent monitoring procedure for the first time, and that is a major part of this legislation.

With regard to the specific question, which also relates to section 30 of the Bill, I will have a responsibility under section 30: "as soon as may be after the commencement of this section [to] promulgate a programme with regard to the prevention, minimisation and recovery or waste arising from the performance by public authorities of their functions". I will have a responsibility to set that out as soon as possible after the enactment of this legislation.

With regard to the Deputy's final point, it is my intention that public authorities would be subject to the provisions of section 9 of this Bill. It is my belief that public bodies are "bodies corporate" in the meaning of this Bill and are so affected. That is my advice. We only received this amendment yesterday and, for clarity's sake, we are checking that it is absolutely the case. It is a phrase replicated in a number of elements of other primary legislation and it is the belief that it is correct in that legislation. I am veryfying that point with the Attorney General's Office and I will report back to the committee. This section will impact on corporate bodies and public bodies in the same way as on every other citizen.

Mr. Dempsey

I am glad to hear that and I thank the Minister. I was surprised to think they were not included. The reason I thought they might not be is that there is a definition of a "public authority" in the Bill and I took it that a "body corporate" was a separate entity altogether and might exclude the public authorities. I look forward to the Minister's confirmation of the point on Report Stage.

Amendment, by leave withdrawn.

Section 9 agreed to.