On behalf of the select committee, I welcome the Taoiseach, the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Séamus Brennan, and their officials. The purpose of the meeting is to consider the Revised Estimates falling within the remit of the Department of the Taoiseach, namely, Vote 3 - Department of the Taoiseach; Vote 5 - Central Statistics Office; Vote 13 - Office of the Attorney General; Vote 14 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions; and Vote 18 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor. A proposed timetable was circulated with the agenda for today's meeting. It allows for opening statements by the Taoiseach and the Minister of State, who wishes to make a short contribution. The Opposition spokespersons will have approximately ten minutes each and there will be an open discussion on all five Votes by way of question and answer. Is that agreed? Agreed. I invite the Taoiseach to make his statement.
Estimates for Public Services, 2001.
Vote 3 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised).
Vote 5 - Central Statistics Office (Revised).
Vote 13 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised).
Vote 14 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised).
Vote 18 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised).
I apologise for the delay but I was detained by business in the House on the Gothenburg Summit. I thank you, Chairman, and the committee for receiving the Estimates for my Department for 2001, as well as those for the associated offices. I am accompanied by the Chief Whip and Minister of State at my Department, Deputy Séamus Brennan, who will deal with matters arising from the Central Statistics Office and the millennium celebrations. The activities outlined in the Estimate for my Department reflect the central role it plays in advancing the priorities of the Government, particularly in key areas such as Northern Ireland, economic and social policy and public service modernisation. I wish to outline the key objectives and projects which will be progressed during the year.
On Northern Ireland, in recent weeks and months we have been working to ensure the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement in all its aspects. In the past year, while there are some continuing difficulties affecting them, of which Deputies will be aware, the big picture is that the institutional arrangements provided for in the Agreement have bedded down well. The partnership Executive and the Assembly are dealing with the real political issues that affect the everyday lives of all the people in Northern Ireland and public representatives across all the parties are working in the Executive, the Assembly and the committees of the Assembly on issues such as finance, economic development, education, agriculture, health, housing and transport.
The North-South Ministerial Council has been bringing together Ministers from North and South to discuss and decide on matters of mutual concern. The Council has met 30 times in the last year in diverse locations throughout the island. It addresses 12 sectoral areas in its initial programme of work, of which six come within the remit of new, dedicated, all-island implementation bodies, located North and South and staffed from both jurisdictions. Four of these bodies have boards, with directors from both parts of the island working closely and enthusiastically together. The bodies have responsibility for key issues such as trade and business development, food safety promotion and the Special EU Programmes Body, which has a key role in the negotiation and delivery of current EU programmes such as PEACE and INTERREG.
All of us who have been directly involved in the operation of the North-South Ministerial Council and its associated implementation bodies have been very impressed by the professionalism and commitment of our Northern Ireland colleagues who, irrespective of political affiliation, have discharged their duties within the Council with great distinction. It is, therefore, all the more regrettable that, as a result of the action endorsed by the Ulster Unionist Council last October, the operation of three of the 12 sectors of the Council has been adversely affected for the past seven months.
Real business, however, is being done and decisions are being taken for the benefit of everyone, North and South. If I were to highlight some of the work, I would point to the handling of the foot and mouth disease crisis and the close consultations between the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh, and the Northern Ireland Minister for Agriculture, Brid Rogers, MLA, and their Departments and the excellent meetings that have taken place within the framework of the Council between Minister Empey, MLA, and the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, on economic issues and the work of Minister Sam Foster, MLA, and the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, on environmental matters. The six North-South implementation bodies have become fully operational and are making a real contribution in their respective fields.
Over the coming period, however, both Governments and the pro-Agreement parties are committed to working intensively to overcome the outstanding difficulties. The issues facing us - policing, decommissioning, demilitarisation and the operation of the institutions - go to the heart of this process and at their core is the fundamental issue of trust between the parties and communities and whether people trust each other enough to go the extra distance to find a solution. I believe that, as indicated by the recent public opinion polls, the people of Northern Ireland want the Agreement to work, decision making to continue at a local level and a peaceful future.
We are all acutely aware that the impasse at Drumcree remains to be resolved and that there is the potential, particularly at this time and through the summer, for an upsurge in sectarian violence. Against this backdrop, it is important that we find a way through the difficulties and maintain the political stability that we have all worked so hard to achieve.
In addition to providing the necessary support on matters relating to Northern Ireland generally and our efforts to secure the full implementation of the Agreement, the Northern Ireland division of my Department is responsible for a number of subheads in the Estimates being considered by the committee. Subhead C deals with grants under the Irish Sailors and Soldiers Land Trust Act, 1988. The amount of £280,000 for grants under the Act is the amount expected to be disbursed to projects this year. This is part of an ongoing process of disbursement of the residual funds. Following an advertisement and assessment process completed in 1999, funds were allocated to 59 successful projects. Projects receiving funds in 2001 include the CARA Housing Association in Britain for the employment of a team to assist the homeless in the Irish community in London; the RNLI for a new lifeboat station in Rosses Point, County Sligo; Armagh Observatory for a study of the Irish climate; the Action Group for Irish Youth guide for the Irish community in London; and the Institute of Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool for the lectureship in modern Irish language and literature.
Subhead D deals with the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. Following the restoration of the IRA ceasefire from July 1997, it was possible for the forum to meet on a fully inclusive basis and a meeting was held on 5 December 1997. Since then, due to the focus of all forum participants on the negotiation and implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, no further meetings have taken place. The amount of £10,000 in subhead D of my Department's Vote for 2001 is essentially a contingency provision in case further meetings of the forum would be necessary.
Subhead E deals with commemoration initiatives. A sum of £50,000 has been allocated for initiatives to provide funds for commemorations of different periods or events for which commemoration is appropriate or proposed from civil society. Grants have been awarded to assist with the development costs of a film project commemorating Thomas Moore, the publication of the proceedings of a seminar on Roger Casement and a project commemorating the Battle of Kinsale.
Subhead O deals with the independent commission of inquiry under the sole membership of Mr. Justice Barron. An amount of £720,000 is allocated for costs associated with the inquiry into the bombings in Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk and their sequel. When completed, the commission's work will be published and then considered by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. These procedures will also apply to the commission's examination of the Dundalk bombing, work on which is proceeding.
The Government decided recently to provide assistance for Justice for the Forgotten which will enable the group to establish a family support centre to provide a personal support service for the injured and relatives through a family service support programme. Discussions will be held with the group about making the service available to those affected by other similar atrocities.
The Government is also considering how best to examine the death of Mr. Seamus Ludlow in 1976 and its sequel. There have been recent meetings with the Ludlow family involving the Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Social, Community and Family Affairs. Representations have been received requesting the inclusion in Mr. Justice Barron's remit of other incidents, including the Dublin bombings of 1972 and 1973 and a bombing in Castleblayney in 1976. These requests are being considered in consultation with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Under subhead N - the millennium celebrations - a total of £33 million of Exchequer funds was made available through my Department's Vote for suitable millennium projects. All of these funds have been committed to projects recommended by the National Millennium Committee and approved by the Government. The Minister of State will deal with these issues.
Subheads J and L deal with the tribunals of inquiry. The other relatively large allocation in the Estimate is £2.731 million to fund the ongoing work of the Moriarty tribunal. There is also a contingency provision of £200,000 for any outstanding legal costs that might fall due in respect of the McCracken tribunal.
My Department plays a central and overseeing role in economic and social policy matters, particularly through the social partnership process. The current agreement, the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness, PPF, is the fifth in a series going back to 1987. Cumulatively and collectively, these agreements have played a key role in bringing about the economic and social transformation clearly evident throughout the country today. When negotiating the PPF the Government and the social partners set out to build on the significant progress of previous years and enable this economy and society to meet new and emerging challenges for the benefit of all. One year on and as is clear from the progress reports produced so far, impressive progress has been made in implementing the wide-ranging and highly ambitious agenda of reform set out in the PPF.
When speaking on the Estimates last year I said social partnership must have an in-built dynamic to respond flexibly to new challenges. The PPF has demonstrated this, perhaps most notably in responding to inflationary pressures in the economy. In response to a request by the ICTU to consider issues arising from these pressures, a process of discussion was commenced last October and brought to a successful conclusion on 4 December with an agreed adjustment to the terms of the PPF. A national implementation body, representing Government, IBEC-CIF and the ICTU and chaired by my Department, was established on foot of the December agreement. The purpose of the body is to ensure delivery of the stability and peace provisions of the programme.
The PPF is about much more than incomes related matters although they are important. In particular, many of its provisions deal with quality of life issues such as lifelong learning, public transport and child care. The PPF is helping to chart the way forward on these and other complex issues. However, for the vision to be realised, the terms of the PPF must be adhered to and stability oriented policies must continue to be pursued. There can be no room for complacency. We need to honour our commitments and respond flexibly, imaginatively and intelligently to the emerging international scene and, in this way, maintain competitiveness. Overall, I am very confident that the PPF, working alongside the national development plan and the Government's action programme, will bring about further significant progress across a wide variety of areas and issues to the benefit of all, especially the most disadvantaged in our society.
My Department chairs a cross-departmental team which supports the work of the Cabinet committee on infrastructure and public-private partnerships. The committee receives regular reports from Departments and delivery agencies and is promoting a range of institutional and administrative reforms. A good start has been made to the delivery of NDP infrastructure as outlined in a progress report published by the cross-departmental team in April 2001, which has been placed in the Oireachtas Library.
My Department is centrally involved in developing the potential of the information society in Ireland through the information society policy development unit and the Information Society Commission. The policy development unit ensures policy in this area is co-ordinated, developed, disseminated and implemented appropriately. In order to assist the implementation of information society initiatives, a special dedicated fund has been put in place. This fund is administered by the Department of Finance. My Department's Estimate includes an allocation of £565,000 to fund the Information Society Commission, as well as £800,000 to fund information society awareness initiatives.
Subhead B deals with the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, which provides advice for the Government on the development of the economy and the achievement of social justice. The council continues to be at the forefront in identifying and analysing strategic policy issues and is committed to high quality research analysis. The Estimate contains an allocation of £573,000 to fund the council's work.
Subhead I deals with the National Economic and Social Forum for which there is a provision of £574,000 in the 2001 Estimates. The allocation is to meet the operating costs of the forum. The role of the forum is to achieve consensus on major economic and social policy issues. Since 1998 the forum's work is focused on evaluating the implementation of policies dealing with equality and social inclusion.
Subhead H deals with the National Centre for Partnership and Performance, NCP. Under the PPF the role of the NCP was further enhanced as the newly constituted National Centre for Partnership and Performance, NCPP. The centre will work with IBEC and the ICTU in supporting the deepening of partnership. The key role of the NCPP will be to enhance organisational capability and performance and bring about continuous improvements in partnership in both public and private sector organisations. The director of the NCPP has now been appointed and the executive chair is due to take up duty in July 2001. The process of establishing the governing council is being progressed and a business plan is being prepared. The Estimate contains a provision of £600,000 for the new centre in 2001.
Subhead R deals with the Office for National Economic and Social Development. Legislation to establish the office is being finalised by the parliamentary counsel. It will place the National Economic and Social Council, the National Economic and Social Forum and the National Centre for Partnership and Performance on a statutory basis as part of a single office.
Progress is continuing under the strategic management initiative, the programme of change in the public service. Departments and offices have now developed specific performance indicators and submitted them to an independent quality assurance group for assessment. Payment of the final phase 4% pay increase under the PPF will be conditional upon these targets having been achieved. The public service has developed systems for clearly setting and achieving goals through the publication of strategy statements, the business planning process and the delegation of authority and accountability under the Public Service Management Act. This framework has now been completed with the introduction of the new performance management and development system at team and individual level in May 2000. Implementation of the PMDS is well under way in all Departments and offices. The key priorities in order to advance the modernisation agenda over the coming year will include assessing the impact of the SMI to date through a major independent evaluation and a review of the partnership process in the Civil Service.
Other key action areas include the next phase of the quality customer service initiative; the extension of the scope of the Freedom of Information Act; regulatory reform, following the recent OECD country report on Ireland; the introduction of new financial systems to support a modern management information framework; and the implementation of a range of human resource management initiatives, including the areas of recruitment, induction, promotion, tenure, values and ethics, performance management, equality, improved work practices and the overall refocusing of the human resource management function in Departments. The all-party committee on the SMI continues to monitor progress. The subhead which provides funding to the committee has been transferred from my Department to the Vote of the Houses of the Oireachtas.
Deputies will also note that in addition to the all-party committee on the SMI, other programme subheads have also been transferred. The territorial employment pacts and Sports Campus Ireland have been transferred to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. Multi-Media Developments, which includes the Dublin Digital Hub and MediaLab Europe projects, have been transferred to the Department of Public Enterprise, which co-ordinates work in this area. My Department has made a substantial contribution to getting these projects off the ground, as has been the case with other major projects in the past. It is appropriate that the relevant line Departments now take them forward.
The Revised Estimate for the Office of the Attorney General is £8.414 million. This provides for the operating costs of the office and general law expenses of £4.698 million is in respect of salaries, wages and allowances and £1.139 million for consultancy services. A sum of £1.107 million is being provided by way of a grant-in-aid to the Law Reform Commission and £503,000 is earmarked for incidental expenses. The Revised Estimate for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions is £12.287 million. The Vote provides for the salaries and expenses of the DPP and his staff, fees to counsel engaged by him to prosecute cases in the various courts and costs awarded against the State arising out of judicial review and other legal proceedings.
The Revised Estimate for the Office of the Chief State Solicitor is £22.518 million. This provides for the operating costs of the office, which includes salaries, wages and allowances, consultancy services, fees due to counsel for litigation on behalf of the Attorney General and legal costs awarded as a result of litigation. The Minister of State, Deputy Séamus Brennan, will address issues relating to the Estimate for the Central Statistics Office. I conclude by commending these Estimates to the committee and I thank the committee members for their attention.
Thank you, Taoiseach. I call the Minister of State, Deputy Séamus Brennan.
The Central Statistics Office is responsible for the collection, processing and dissemination of official statistics on economic and social conditions in Ireland. While the main focus is on the statistical requirements of Government, there is a very wide community of users nationally, such as the social partners, various public bodies, business interests, universities, research institutes and the general public. There is also a significant international dimension to the work of the office, particularly in relation to statutory obligations arising out of our membership of the EU.
Net expenditure in 2000 amounted to £22.211 million. The published Estimate demand for the CSO is £43.434 million but, due to the deferment of the census in April, it is expected that expenditure will be in the region of £34.450 million in 2001. In addition to its regular activities, such as the monthly consumer price index, the business statistics programmes and the quarterly national household survey, the CSO carries out a number of periodic censuses and surveys which have a cyclical impact on its expenditure.
The census of population is undertaken every five years. The last one was held in 1996. A census was scheduled for 29 April this year but was postponed on the recommendation of the expert group on foot and mouth disease. The census after the upcoming one will be held in 2006 to get back into the cycle. Well in advance of 29 April there was a considerable build up of work involving the selection of field staff, the acquisition of premises and equipment and the installation of the necessary technology to process the census. Much of this work was near to completion when the decision to defer the census was announced. As a result, schedules, budgets and contracts etc. had to be reviewed and revised as the Government agreed to proceed with the census in April 2002. The 2001 estimated allocation includes amended provision for the now deferred census and expenditure relating to the census accounts for approximately one third of the office expenditure in 2001 and as much as one half in 2002.
The household budget survey that commenced in June 1999 concluded in mid-2000 and results will be available in autumn. Data are currently being processed for the census of agriculture that was undertaken in 2000 and preliminary results will also be published in the autumn. The number of staff provided for in the CSO's Vote for 2001 is approximately 587. This figure includes staff recruited for the census of population.
The Taoiseach referred to the millennium celebrations in his address. The National Millennium Committee approved five flagship projects, 30 national projects, 75 regional projects, 300 county or community based projects and over 2,000 commemorative events or projects at national or local level broken down approximately as follows: environmental projects, including Office of Public Works bridges, parks and plazas - £8 million; social projects for the elderly, disadvantaged, homeless and children - £5.5 million; community projects to mark and celebrate the millennium - £6 million; arts and education projects, including supports for theatres and school projects - £3.5 million; church and Christian projects, including floodlighting, the provision of bells etc. - £1.8 million; the exiles projects in recognition of the role of the diaspora world wide - £2 million; and projects to mark and celebrate the millennium on a national basis - £2.8 million. These included flagship projects, such as the people's millennium forest, involving the planting of 1.2 million native trees, the allocation of £2 million to children's causes, the Last Lights Ceremony, the special commemorative millennium candles and scrolls delivered to every house in the country, one of the most evocative events in the nation for a long time, and the Irish Landmark Trust involving the rescue and restoration of historic lighthouse keepers' cottages on the country's headlands.
I thank the millennium committee, including the officials and staff, who worked on the project. We celebrated the millennium in our own way and highlighted the Christian aspect. It was a people's millennium and it was celebrated in a lasting and dignified manner which befitted the passing from one century to another.
I wish to share my time with Deputy Belton.
Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Taoiseach agus an Aire Stáit go dtí cruinniú an chomhchoiste airgeadais anseo agus buíochas a ghabháil leo as an chuntas a chuir siad inár láthair. Feicim gurb é an Meastachán iomlán don Roinn ná £44.471 milliúin, airgead mór go leor. An rud a théann ina luí orm an réimse leathan ag teacht faoi Roinn an Taoisigh. Níl fonn orm óráid fhada a dhéanamh ach beidh ceisteanna agam ina dhiaidh seo nuair a bheidh deis againn maidir le míreanna áirithe sna Meastacháin.
I welcome the Taoiseach and the Minister of State and thank them for their presentation. The entire Estimate is in excess of £44 million, which indicates the wide remit covered by the Department of the Taoiseach. It is appropriate that the Taoiseach commenced his remarks with a review of the situation in Northern Ireland. Events since the British general election, including those last night and today when school children were prevented from attending school and there were riots on the streets of Belfast, bring us close to what happened before the ceasefire. We are all very concerned and hope that over the coming days and months no effort will be spared to ensure that peace is restored to the streets of Northern Ireland.
As someone who travels through Northern Ireland on a weekly basis I have seen the advantages of peace. A normal society operates and people go about their daily business. I visited there for a few days during the general election campaign and it was good to see democracy in action and to have normality restored. The way to do business is through democracy, the ballot box and elections, not on the streets.
I am not in the business of apportioning blame; I suppose there are difficulties on both sides. I hope the Taoiseach, the British Prime Minister and others will use their good offices to restore normality. The marching season is about to commence. I have driven through peaceful marches and have witnessed marches that were not peaceful. I am sure the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland would like to see peace continue.
It is significant that £10,000 has been allocated to the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. If matters do not improve there may be a need to resurrect the forum and a Supplementary Estimate may be required before the end of the year to finance it.
Mention has been made of commemoration initiatives for which £50,000 has been allocated under subhead E. Worthy causes have been supported in the past and I note that Thomas Moore is being commemorated on this occasion. I wish to make a plea for the commemoration of one of our greatest heroes, Red Hugh O'Donnell, next year. As such, it may be more appropriate to the 2002 Estimates.
He was not from County Donegal.
He was. He was also in County Longford and travelled as far as County Cork and spent some time in Dublin before making his way to County Wicklow. Next year, we in County Donegal and I hope nationally will commemorate the 400th anniversary of his death in Spain in 1602. Perhaps the Department will fund a commemoration initiative such as a postage stamp. This is a matter not only for County Donegal but for the entire country.
On the millennium celebrations, many worthy projects were supported by the National Millennium Committee. What was the total cost of the celebrations? A sum of £10 million is provided in the Estimate for this year. Is this the end of the matter or should we expect further funding next year?
Everybody is concerned about recent events in Northern Ireland. The Forum for Peace and Reconciliation could be updated and used again. While it is always welcome to hear there will be consultation and talks and while both the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, and the Minister of State at his Department, Deputy O'Donnell, have been active on this front, the way things are going we must always be ready for an update on events as they develop. We hope the current escalation will not get out of hand.
I compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Séamus Brennan, on his work on the millennium celebrations. If there are funds left, perhaps he will let me know. He is a good listener.
The Minister for Finance stated here yesterday that one of his dilemmas in the context of budgetary policy was that he had to deal with the PPF. There seems to be a direct clash between this and the demands of EU directives. Is the EU perspective taken into account when programmes such as the PPF are being drawn up because otherwise the Minister for Finance and his successors are likely to get caught in a similar situation in the future?
I welcome the funding of the Irish youth guide for Irish communities in Britain. As a former member of a county committee in England, I am aware that we pay a great deal of lip-service to the Irish diaspora and such committees. It is nice to see substantial funds being provided in that area which I know are welcomed by them.
Will the Department of the Taoiseach be responsible for the establishment of the proposed forum on EU matters?
As I have said to the Taoiseach previously, this is my annual opportunity, which I appreciate, to pretend that I am party leader in the hope that my party leader is not actually watching.
I want to touch on a few of the issues the Taoiseach raised in the course of his contribution, but will reserve most of my comments for the questions and answers session. As the Taoiseach will be aware, while we might differ on Northern Ireland in terms of emphasis and tactics on occasion, my party has been supportive of the role played by his Government in the past four years in dealing with the peace process.
I join Deputy McGinley in deploring the events in Ardoyne yesterday evening, a matter which I hope can be resolved shortly. It is distressing, to say the least, to see such events, which we thought had been consigned to the past. Certainly, the naked sectarianism, which they unfortunately bring to the fore, gives us all cause for thought.
The most recent elections were disturbing because they showed a clear weakening of the centre and a clear strengthening of the extremes in Northern politics. On the Unionist side, it is difficult not to have some sympathy for the First Minister. He has been dealing with what is obviously a difficult situation within his own party and has now lost support to a party whose credentials do not bear much study. We have all got used to dealing with the negativity which has been the hallmark of the Democratic Unionist Party for decades, which is compounded by the rank hypocrisy of taking and holding their seats within the Executive while demanding that the First Minister vacate his. This is difficult to take.
On the Nationalist side, we have seen a strengthening of the Sinn Féin vote. I want to amplify the message sent from all sides of the House this morning that there is now a particular responsibility on the Sinn Féin leadership to ensure the undertaking of one year ago to put arms completely and verifiably beyond use is fulfilled soon. We need to see serious progress on the matter in the very near future.
I want to touch briefly on one aspect of the Gothenburg Summit, not what we have been discussing all morning, but a somewhat different aspect. The Council has now signed off on the broad economic policy guidelines for this year, but I am still confused as to where the Government stands on them. We know from the Minister for Finance that he has entered a caveat regarding Ireland's adherence to, or intentions on, the guidelines. I would be interested in hearing the Taoiseach's views on the issue. Have we signed up fully to the guidelines and do we intend to adhere to them? If not, why did we sign up to them? The Minister for Finance has been very unclear on the matter and since the Taoiseach has an overarching responsibility for social and economic matters, perhaps he will deal with it.
The Taoiseach made some references to social partnership, a matter we discussed previously. One thing that is clear from the experience of the past six months is that the current phase of social partnership is rapidly coming to an end and that the time when the national wage agreement element takes centre stage has now to all intents and purposes come to an end. We are all aware that in the private sector at least 50% of the arrangements made do not adhere to the terms of the PPF - they are largely exceeding what has been agreed - and that the strains within the public sector have become intolerable. It is becoming difficult to hold on to skilled staff within the public sector and no longer possible, particularly in current economic circumstances, to defend its low pay levels. Even in this sector the type of national wage agreement central to social partnership effectively has come to an end. Perhaps we can buy more time through the benchmarking process, but I am not sure that the experience or much of what has been said in the past three months has been particularly helpful in that regard.
I want to touch on two or three issues mentioned specifically by the Taoiseach. Both he and his Department have deftly managed to ditch responsibility for the two areas of spending which have generated the greatest interest in the past year - Stadium Ireland and MediaLab Europe. Since he mentioned them, I assume he will be happy to comment on them. What is the current position on MediaLab Europe? It is my understanding that the initial budget has effectively been halved at the insistence of the Department of Finance and that the expectations in terms of private sector investment have been greatly reduced. I also understand the project has been slower in getting under way than the Taoiseach expected when he last answered questions on the issue at this committee.
Will the Taoiseach comment on the ongoing review of Stadium Ireland? When can we expect to receive a report on the matter? What ongoing process has he put in place to keep an eye on costs and ensure they will be in line with those stated already? Would the Taoiseach agree that the decision-making process on Stadium Ireland leaves a great deal to be desired and that it is sending all the wrong messages to line Departments if, to deliver the Taoiseach's pet project, his Department feels entitled to make decisions riding roughshod over the Department of Finance? As I hope the Taoiseach will be aware, I say this as somebody who has some sympathy for the broad principle of the project. I would support a scaled back stadium and almost everything else in the campus. Therefore, I am coming to the project from a more sympathetic position than others. However, I am not sure that the decision-making process, which his Department has led, stands up to any great scrutiny.
One other issue raised by the Taoiseach was the inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings led by Mr. Justice Barron. The Taoiseach will be aware that recently in the House my party leader brought up the issue of co-operation by the British authorities with the inquiry and this matter has been outstanding for about four months. Does the Taoiseach share our concern that the British authorities have been slow in co-operating and is he confident that they will ultimately provide the documentation and co-operate in the way necessary to facilitate that inquiry?
I thank the Taoiseach, the Minister of State and the spokespersons for their contributions. The Taoiseach must leave at 2.15 p.m. We must deal with Votes 3, 13, 14 and 18, and then the Minister of State, Deputy Séamus Brennan, will take Vote 5. The Minister of State will take detailed questions after the Taoiseach departs.
I thank you, Chairman, and the committee for this co-operation. I thank all the members of the committee who spoke, not forgetting those who would have done so had time permitted, for their comments and support on Northern Ireland. It is a difficult position. The other side of the election was always going to be difficult. Clearly, as I outlined in the House this morning, what we require is a proper negotiating session where people will try to commit themselves to the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, which means that the four outstanding issues of policing, decommissioning, demilitarisation and stability of the institutions are dealt with. However, that will be quite difficult. In the aftermath of the election there has been a certain polarisation of views and there are arguments about vetos and deadlines. Regrettably all the usual issues come to the fore because as soon as these things are put down as markers and guidelines, people reject them. There is a tense situation at present and hopefully we can get down to serious talks.
I will not say that both Governments agree in every respect, but certainly in the broad process we agree totally and in the detail we substantially agree and are ready to conclude on the other issues. However, that requires every party which has an involvement, including Sinn Féin, to do what it can to resolve the issues over which it has influence. The British Government has influence on the issue of demilitarisation.
We all have an input into policing. My view is that we should stick to the Patten report, which is the benchmark to follow. If one departs from the line of the Patten report on either side, one will not get agreement on it.
Deputies McGinley and McDowell outlined the dangers of the sectarian violence and there has been much tension, but I want to acknowledge the work of many community leaders and of people involved in politics who over the past few nights have been on the peace line endeavouring to keep things calm. There has been a great deal of tension, some of which was reported but much of which was not, but I would hasten to add that that is not unusual. Over the past six or seven years there has been the same focus in the approach to Drumcree Sunday. Sunday week is Drumcree Sunday. In addition, this time we are approaching it on the back of an election and therefore we are in a difficult position. We are coming into a difficult period.
On the PPF issues, the tax provisions were designed to underpin the moderate wage developments and to maintain competitiveness. Budgets are always set by the Government having regard to the programme in place, in this case, the PPF. Deputy Belton is right that the commitments in the PPF do not always make it easy to frame a budget, but they are all taken into account and so are the EU obligations and all the other relevant factors. Ultimately the Minister for Finance, in the preparation of his budget, must try to deal with these issues in as balanced a way as possible.
On Deputy McDowell's question, we have accepted the overall broad economic policy guidelines but we have entered a caveat in the minutes of the ECOFIN meeting, which I also raised subseqently at the European Council last week, that our budgetary strategy for this year will take full account of the broad economic guidelines. We have of course defended our position. The Minister strongly defended his position on these issues at the ECOFIN and again last week.
I do not want to interrupt the Taoiseach but I do not understand what this caveat means. Does it mean that we are not really signed up to the guidelines or are they part of the guidelines as far as we are concerned?
They are part of the guidelines. We are not the only ones doing so. There have been reservations or caveats inserted by a number of countries. We have accepted the broad economic policy guidelines, but we have stated that our budgetary strategy for this year will take account of those caveats. We have argued and demonstrated to the best of our ability. The Minister has done this successfully and yesterday he was commended strongly by Mr. Duisenburg for the consistency of the case he has presented on these issues. When I spoke to Commissioner Solbes last week I raised these issues and we put them forward in the minutes of the European Council. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, was with me for the full European Council meeting and his position on these issues was accepted and no reservations were voiced. As the Deputy will be aware, the process is that when we come to the next budget they will look at it and see the position. They did not close off their position either and they may come back on some of these issues again next December. We certainly will not be on our own this time. It seems that a number of countries have concerns. We have gone along with the broad economic guidelines, as I said, other than the caveat.
Proposals for the composition and the operation of the Forum for Europe are being developed. I hope to have those completed and cleared by Cabinet before the summer recess and then to negotiate them with the Opposition leaders in order to be ready to move ahead in the autumn. I have had some preliminary informal discussions with the party leaders, but we must enter into more formal discussions. We had intended taking up this Labour Party proposal for the next round, that is, the debate on the future of Europe. As I said at Question Time, however, now we must include the Nice Treaty and the enlargement process in that debate. The terms of reference will be framed in a way which will take those issues first and then the forum will continue.
Under the Future of Europe debate, which was launched on 7 March by the Swedes, every country was asked to design a way to deal in a more inclusive way with all the issues and all the groups which have views on Europe. This was done because the same problems have been clearly identified in every other country. The format we will use is the Forum on Europe. Although it is impossible to get total consensus on these issues, hopefully it will be a mechanism for getting broad support for what the country needs to do. I hope to have these terms of reference ready, negotiated and cleared with the Opposition leaders prior to the summer recess.
There are always pressures on the issue of public service pay but our objective is to deal with these issues in the best way possible and honour the commitments we made last December. Seven months have passed since then and we are seeing a sensible responsible approach being taken by everybody on this issue, but it will create difficulties.
It was always envisaged that responsibility for the digital hub would be handed over to a line Department. I set it up but I do not have staff experienced in this particular area and the one expert I had has gone to work with the digital hub. I have some knowledge of this issue but it is not appropriate to my Department. All of the negotiations, the set-up and the preparations were done by me with the help of my officials, but all the experts available to work on it are in the Department of Public Enterprise and it is the best Department to deal with the day-to-day issues.
It is going well. I had an opportunity of visiting St. Patrick's College where I met with some world renowned professors of education. Members may have heard some of their comments or read some of the reports of what was said. They would have you believe that this is the biggest and best thing happening in Ireland today. Needless to say, I hope they are right and I admire their optimism. I am happy to admit that they lose me when they get into the details of how they see the world of information technology and science developing over the next decade. The international figures are strongly supportive of the digital hub.
Does the Department ofFinance support it?
The Department of Finance's concern is that we should not turn into a property development company and start buying costly property which perhaps we do not need. The Department is prepared to provide resources for a level of property which is necessary not only for the entire digital hub but for the project which we and MIT have set up. The Department of Finance believes that the private sector rather than the taxpayer should buy the property for the other aspects of the digital hub. That was the argument which went on with the board of the digital hub for much of the winter, but we can feel satisfied that the project now has adequate resources. There is quite a large sum involved - about £60 million - in setting up the process. It is a substantial amount of money for a project which is really looking into the future and we are unlikely to see the benefits of this in the next few years. This is putting top class Irish and world renowned researchers together to look at new concepts and projects for the future.
Many of the inventions and the issues these people can deal with are very interesting. The project which fascinated me most is appropriate here. At the launch last July when we were all in the conference room we saw a system which one of these people had invented. Without visible microphones, controls or any of the modern technology in this room, one person sitting with a tiny device could focus on the voice of the person speaking and make it audible. There were no other devices visible. It would not be very handy to have that system in place if you were having a chat behind somebody's back, but it was fascinating. These are technological revolutions. These are the kind of people who are working on the technological projects of the future.
There has been a slowdown in the investment by technology companies because of the slowdown in technology throughout the world, but most of the big companies have an interest in this for the long-term. It is only the small companies which will not have the resources for it. The big companies are totally supportive of the project.
The tendering process for the review of Stadium and Sports Campus Ireland, which the Government has ordered and which people wanted to see, has been completed. The contract will be awarded shortly - in the next week or so. That review must be completed by the autumn. It will look at all aspects of the project and then we must see how we will proceed.
As the committee will be aware, I do not consider this my pet project. As we are building the infrastructure of the State such as universities, business parks and educational institutes at every level and doing so much right across a range of areas such as cultural areas, the development of the economy, the health service and all the other areas, it makes sense that we also do something with the sporting infrastructure of the country. We spend only a fraction of 1% on sport, leisure and recreation. Even though we have picked up the pace over the past four years, we are light years behind most of the modern world. We do not have the kind of infrastructure which can cope with sporting events and that is the reason I have been supportive of the development of Croke Park for the past eight or nine years as Minister for Finance and as Taoiseach. That will give us one decent venue but, as the committee will be aware, Croke Park is hard pressed to cater for all the games currently on its schedule and those grounds cannot be used all year round. Even if the matches in March had not been put off by the foot and mouth disease crisis, it would not have been possible to play them because of the condition of the pitch. There are many other grounds around the country which also require development.
During the recent series of important soccer World Cup qualifying matches, there were applications for tickets from 70,000 or 80,000, but the national rugby ground could only hold 34,000, half of whom were nearly drowned in the rain on one of those occasions. We have Third World sports facilities. It is pathetic and appalling.
I understand the views of those people who are anti-sport and do not want Sports Campus Ireland. They are entitled to their opinion and I hope I am entitled to mine.
I hope the Taoiseach is not including me among them.
I am not. I appreciate the Deputy's consistent support and the support of people in all parties. Yesterday I visited Scotland where they are building a new parliament. Everybody is totally in favour of it privately but they voice different views in public. That is the way the cookie crumbles. We know that is also the way it is with this excellent building project of ours.
I understand that there will probably be an international dimension to this review group when all of this is finalised. I will go along with whatever the review group says and totally abide by that, but in whatever position I hold in the future I will continue to advocate the development of sport.
We state throughout the world that our young people are our greatest asset. Some 50% of the population are under 28 years of age and we put less than 1% into recreational facilities for them. This project seeks to address that shortfall. Over recent years we have managed to put the money into sport at a local level. We have given several hundred million pounds to local sports facilities but we are still at a stage where most of the national sporting bodies do not have premises or headquarters. They all rent back offices and borrow office facilities and they do not have any proper facilities.
In medical and public research, we do not have anything of a public nature. We have a few private consultants working in this field. Where library and sporting facilities are concerned, we do not have any. We have some facilities in a tiny location in Limerick and the people involved there are doing their best, so this could be regarded as an opportunity. As I have always said, it is not a question of a stadium, but of an entire campus. Deputy McDowell understands that.
I will keep away from the consultants. Otherwise, people would say I influenced them, apart from having asked them to talk to me. Anyway, they probably know my views. I hope we can proceed with the project.
What is the timescale?
The review process should take about three months.
Is the successful company invited to start immediately once the tender is awarded?
There will be some delay. In the meantime, the pool for the Special Olympics is going ahead.
I thank the Taoiseach for attending today's meeting. He stayed five minutes longer than he had to.
I thank the Chairman and the committee for its support.
We must deal with Votes 3, 5, 13, 14 and 18. We will commence with Vote 3, which concerns the Department of the Taoiseach.
Subhead 7 deals with consultancy services. There was an increase from £101,000 last year to £484,000 for the current year, a very significant increase. Could I have a breakdown of what the extra £383,000 was for? Was it spent on PR or could it be regarded as an indication that there may be something more eventful in the near future, such as an election?
Is the communications unit covered by any of the subheads?
I dtosach, chuir an Teachta McGinley ceist orm cheana féin mar gheall ar chúrsaí mílaoise. D'fhiafraigh sé díom an raibh aon airgead fágtha sa chiste. With regard to the millenium, all the funding has been allocated. I thank Deputy Belton for his kind comments. There were 2,000 events around the country to which the funding was allocated, so it will be the next millennium before we replenish the fund.
Did we get any money back after the Messiah?
We did not. It was a once off grant and I do not expect to get back any funds from it. The consultancy expenditure of £484,000 was for a financial management framework, human resource development and website development. It does not include PR. The Deputy asked about the communications unit - it is not included in the figure either.
Are there any more questions on Vote 3?
What about the communications unit?
Presumably it relates to the salaries section in the Department of the Taoiseach.
Was there a substantial increase in the salary allocation in the Department?
Subhead 1 from £5.1 million to £6.7 million.
Was the increase in salaries or staff numbers?
I am sorry, Chairman——
Was it an increase in salaries or an increase in staff numbers?
I am advised that it is approximately half and half. The PPF would account for some of it.
What are the numbers pertaining to the increase in staff?
We are filling more clerical posts. There were increases mainly in the information society, European affairs and international affairs sections of the Department. I will provide the Deputy with the numbers soon.
Will the Minister of State provide more information on the census which had to be postponed? What arrangements were made for staff who had to be let go? Was the experience of recruiting staff more difficult on this occasion because of the booming economy given that there are more people working than heretofore? What arrangements are made to ensure the people recruited will be available when the census takes place?
It was more difficult to recruit people for the census on this occasion. We took on 4,000 enumerators and approximately 400 field staff and supervisors. We increased the rates on offer and advertised more widely than usual. That enabled us to fill all the positions. The census has been postponed until April 2002. All the people who were taken on for the cancelled census will have the right of first refusal of the posts in 2002. They will all be invited back and if they are all available they will fill the quota. If there is a shortfall, we will advertise again.
Foot and mouth disease was the reason for the postponement of the census, something that caused additional costs to be incurred.
What were the additional costs?
They amounted to approximately £5 million.
Did people have to be paid although the work was not done?
The field supervisors received some payment because they did some work. The enumerators were not taken on, but there was substantial investment in advertising, information technology and direct staff costs, which account for most of the costs. These costs were incurred over a couple of years. The 2002 census will cost about £31 million, of which about £4 million was spent last year, £13 million pounds will be spent this year, £12 million next year and about £2 million thereafter to complete the project. The result of the postponement will lead to an additional cost of about £5 million.
Questions may be asked on any of the Votes.
I was surprised that the Minister of State mentioned that approximately £31 million will be spent on the census. That is almost £30 per household. It seems a lot. How does this figure compare to those of other countries?
I feel it is in line with international figures. There is more to the census than merely turning up at houses to collect forms. There is a lot of information technology required and many analysis costs, further breakout costs, etc. If one were to undertake a market survey or a political opinion poll and interview thousands of people, it would be interesting to see how much it would cost. I think it would not be far from the figures to which Deputy Fleming is referring, not that one would undertake such a political opinion poll.
I do not know if the Minister of State has referred to subhead H.
To which Vote are you referring?
The Vote pertaining to the Taoiseach's Department.
Vote 3.
There has been a significant increase from £235,000 to £600,000. Will the Minister of State give a breakdown of that increase? I refer to subhead H, the National Centre for Partnership and Performance.
The old centre was winding down in the year 2000 so the figure of £235,000 does not reflect its full capacity. The centre was scaled down prior to the calculation of that figure. As part of the negotiations for the PPF, the role of the National Centre for Partnership and Performance was greatly enhanced. The change from the old centre to the new one was also an enhancement. In comparing the old and new centres, we are not comparing like with like.
Regarding Sports Campus Ireland, there have been many stories, but has any effort been made to explain to the people what is involved? A couple of weeks ago, I was frightened to hear a senior Opposition spokesman question the point of the proposed velodrome. As a former racing cyclist, it was my dream to have a velodrome in Ireland. In the north of England, where one was provided, there are 800 young people training and involved in cycling, in a place where there was no tradition of cycle racing before. I know outlines and maps have been printed, but has the public been informed fully about the campus and the uses of each portion of it? Even though the campus is to be in Dublin I support it because that is the major population centre. Just because the Opposition spokesman was unfamiliar with cycling, the velodrome was dismissed as an unnecessary expense.
I am interested in the information society awareness programme and the £800,000 expenditure. I know it is based in the south-west and the Shannon development region, but what mechanism will be used to get to the 100,000 people, or equal skills holders as we call them, involved in it? It is an innovative approach to involve people who have no knowledge of technology, but will this be achieved through local community groups, councils, or schools, etc?
I have approached the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands concerning one of the great British film makers, Mr. Griffith, a Welshman who produced the original Michael Collins film 35 years ago, suppressed at the time by the British. Partly because of the religious issues involved, Griffith is extremely anxious to make a film on Theobald Wolfe Tone. I am looking at the issue in terms of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. The film board may assist, but it would regard the project as a purely commercial venture. Griffith, a proven world class film maker, spends much time in Ireland. I would appreciate if the issue could be examined.
The velodrome was part of the original proposal for Sports Campus Ireland. It is not with the consultants, but when the overall project is assessed, we will see what can be done about it then.
The information society awareness project subhead deals with sponsoring, development and appreciation of technology throughout the community in relation to the equal skills initiative. The objective is to bring technology to those who hitherto may not have had access to it or interest in it. The programme is very broad and the centre is very important in that it is designed for those who approach computing with some fear and fascination. We could discuss the issue for days and weeks.
The Minister of State has a target of 100,000 people. How are they to be identified? Will he advertise publicly?
There is a corresponding programme in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment that deals with the hands-on aspect of the project. The information society aspect deals more with bringing about an appreciation of technology in society. The programmes, apart from the equal skills initiative and one or two others, are concerned with the Department of Public Enterprise, Enterprise Ireland and the county enterprise boards, etc. That is where the funds are coming from.
Deputy Dennehy asked me about the commemorations. His suggestion is one that could be considered. However, the commemoration budget in the Department of the Taoiseach is very small.
I was involved in the 1798 commemorations, which were extensive. Before that, we had the Famine commemoration regarding which there were events throughout the country. To some extent, the millennium celebrations came under the same banner. Now, the commemorative events have been scaled down substantially to those of which the Taoiseach spoke earlier. Given that Deputy Dennehy put forward his suggestion officially at a committee, it can be considered.
On Vote 13, the Office of the Attorney General, I notice a large increase in the Estimate for salaries, wages and allowances.
May I ask a question on the same Vote while the Minister is checking his documentation? It concerns the implementation of the Nally report which, as colleagues will know, deals with the transfer of various results regarding the DPP's office, the Attorney General's office and the Chief State Solicitor's office. In that light, what is the position in terms of staff negotiations and the implementation of the changes?
Is the Deputy asking me about the Nally report?
All the good news where you are still in the extra money——
I do not understand what the Chairman is asking?
There was a big increase in the Estimate for salaries, wages and allowances.
The additional budgets are for the implementation of the Nally report and the additional staff needed for this. The Government decided to approve in principle all but one of the recommendations of the Nally report.
A high level group was established under the chairmanship of the Department of Finance to advise on the steps necessary to give effect to the Nally proposals. Since then, much time has been spent in negotiations with the union representing the legal and para-legal grades in the Chief State Solicitor's office. These negotiations have concluded and it is hoped that substantial progress will be made on the project very shortly.
Were the negotiations concluded successfully?
They were.
When does the Minister expect the changes to be implemented?
In the near future.
What does the near future mean?
Over the summer.
Regarding subhead A3 concerning incidental expenses pertaining to the CSO, the provisional outturn for 2000 is £403,000 and for 2001 the Revised Estimate is £983,000. In the details of certain later subheads dealing with the same matter, it seems to go from £403,000 to £1.943 million. Am I reading it wrong or is there a discrepancy?
First, is the Deputy referring to subhead A3?
That is correct. It pertains to the Central Statistics Office.
Which has increased from £403,000 to £983,000——
Yes, and if one looks at the details of certain subheads concerning incidental expenses, they indicate that it goes up from £403,000 to £1.943 million.
First, we will deal withsubhead A3 on incidental expenses. The 2000figure is £403,000 and that for 2001 is £983,000. Advertising and recruitment correspond to the census. That is the main reason for the increase from £483,000 to £983,000. The additional expenses of which I spoke earlier referred to that also.
Is the Deputy happy? Can we proceed with the questions?
Before the census that figure would be even greater.
One figure struck me as curious during the course of the Nice treaty referendum. RTE consistently reported that there were 2.9 million people on the register of electors. If true, the population must have increased considerably since the last census. Is that figure accurate? How many of them came back?
When posting out millenium candles, I was using a figure of 1.2 million households. I can confirm that that is the number of letter boxes in the country.
I do not know the ratio of voters to non-voters, but a figure of 2.9 million voters would suggest that there are certainly more than four million people here.
Is Deputy McDowell asking me what is the population?
Does that come within the brief of the Minister of State?
Does Deputy McDowell want to know their names?
If the number of people on the register of electors is accurate, it suggests that we have many more people in the country than there were at the last census.
The population has grown significantly, particularly in the Dublin region. I do not have the figures available.
On behalf of the select committee, I thank the Minister of State and his officials for attending today's meeting.