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SELECT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS debate -
Tuesday, 11 Mar 2008

Visit to Israel and Palestinian Territories: Discussion with Minister for Foreign Affairs.

On behalf of the select committee, I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and his officials for attending today's meeting. Before he leaves, I am sure the Minister would like a brief update on the visit of a delegation from the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs last week to Israel and the Palestinian territories. I was accompanied on the trip by Deputies O'Hanlon, Ardagh, Higgins and Shatter and Senator Daly.

We spent the first two days visiting Jerusalem and the West Bank. Our first meeting was with the Catholic Archbishop of Jerusalem, Michel Sabbah, who briefed us on the circumstances of the small Christian community in the city. We then had meetings with a number of senior figures in the Palestinian Government, including Ahmed Qurei; Abu Allah who was appointed as head of the Palestinian negotiating team for the peace talks after the Annapolis conference; Riyad al-Maliki, the Palestinian Foreign Minister; and Rafiq Husseini, the chief of staff in the office of President Abbas.

We learned a great deal about how the Palestinians viewed the peace talks from these valuable meetings. We heard about the difficulties they encountered in progressing the talks with the Israeli Government in the face of continuing violence, particularly by Hamas. They believe it is possible to achieve a ceasefire and an agreement, as long as the agreement is comprehensive, mutual and in line with the road map. The members of our delegation were able to offer some suggestions based on the experience of the peace process in Northern Ireland. Our suggestion that a permanent joint secretariat be put in place to ensure contact was maintained between both sides, even in the face of outbreaks of violence, was well received by the Palestinians.

We met members of the Palestinian Legislative Council and representatives of the Palestinian human rights NGOs in Ramallah. I laid a wreath at the grave of President Yasser Arafat on behalf of the delegation. When we visited a girls' school in a refugee camp near Bethlehem, we saw the negative effects of the separation wall on the lives of the people of the area. We visited Bethlehem University which receives funding from Irish Aid. I am glad to say we found the university, which has approximately 2,600 students, in excellent shape. We received detailed briefings from the UN Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs on the living conditions of the Palestinian people on the West Bank and in Gaza. The UN Relief and Works Agency, which is doing excellent work, also briefed the delegation.

We met a number of senior Israeli Government and Opposition figures in the Knesset. Our main meeting was with Tzachi Hanegbi, chairman of the Knesset's defence and foreign affairs committee. We also met Yossi Beilin, the leader of the moderate Meretz party, and his party colleague, Avshalom Vilan. When we met Isaac Herzog, the Israeli Minister for welfare and social services, he was receptive to our suggestion that a permanent joint secretariat involving Israelis and Palestinians, based on the model used in Northern Ireland, be established. Representatives of the Israeli defence forces briefed us on the security situation arising from the construction of the security wall. We had a meeting with a senior legal official in the foreign ministry who set out how Israel saw its legal position with respect to the occupation of the Gaza Strip. We visited the Holocaust museum, Yad Vashem, where we saw in graphic detail a complete record of the horrors inflicted on the Jewish people in Europe by the Nazis. On behalf of the delegation, I laid a wreath in memory of all those who died in the Holocaust.

When we visited the town of Sderot, less than 1 km from Gaza, we met the mayor of the town. Our visit brought home to us directly the daily terror being experienced by the citizens of Sderot from Qassam rockets. The citizens of the town are mainly refugees who arrive there at various times. While we were being briefed by the mayor in his office, an alarm went off to warn us that a Qassam rocket had been launched on the town. We had eight seconds in which to find shelter in a fortified area of the town. Ten rockets were fired on Sderot on the day in question. While some fell harmlessly in the fields, others hit houses and did serious damage.

Our visit concluded with a meeting with representatives of a number of human rights NGOs in Israel. I emphasise the delegation's appreciation of the efforts made by the Irish ambassador to Israel, Mr. Michael Forbes, and his staff at the embassy; and the Irish representative to the Palestinian Authority, Mr. Conor O'Riordan, and his staff in Ramallah during the planning and smooth running of what turned out to be an intensive and worthwhile visit. A full report is being prepared and will be made available to the Minister in the near future.

The delegation also met representatives of some of the most significant human rights organisations in Israel and the occupied territories, including Gisha which has recently published a report on the legal obligations of occupying forces. While we were on our trip, the Israeli Supreme Court issued a judgment on the siege of Gaza. It found that Israel did not have any obligations because it had vacated Gaza in September 2005. I was impressed by our meeting with Gisha which had just published a report on the obligations of occupiers under Protocol No. 1 of the Geneva Convention. We also met representatives of B'Tselem which is doing first-class work. We met a group representing the mothers of Israeli and Palestinian victims of violence and several other organisations. Near the end of our visit, we met Gideon Levy who writes for Haaretz twice a week. He said no Israeli journalist had visited Gaza since November 2006. Therefore, what was happening behind the siege barrier was not being well communicated to the Israeli population. It would have been impossible for us to visit Gaza, although we were very near it. While there we heard the figures for Sderot where over a period of 11 years 6,000 rockets have led to seven casualties. Between our departure on 27 February and 6 March 106 Palestinians were killed, half of whom were civilians and 25% of whom were children. My strong impression on leaving was that if an event took place which caused a military retaliation on the part of the Israeli defence forces, there would be a catastrophe. Several elements came from Gideon Levy’s suggestions such as that efforts should not be spared in achieving a ceasefire which would include the suspension of rocket attacks on southern Israel and bringing to an end incursions by the Israeli defence forces not only into Gaza but also the West Bank where there have been killings. The second element was that attempts should be made to revive the concept of a national unity government to enable Fatah to negotiate through Mahmoud Abbas with the Israeli authorities and others and also leave Hamas participating.

John Ging told us that 1.1 million of the 1.5 million people in Gaza were being fed 60% of the recommended daily food intake and that another 300,000 received food from the World Food Programme. We are dealing with a tinder box where something could go terribly wrong, with disastrous consequences. I agree with the Chairman that when we make our full report, we should try to attend to all of these issues. We are ad idem in respect of addressing the issue of peace and security, on the one hand, and ending the long suffering of the people of Gaza and the West Bank, on the other. We do not differ either on the illegality of the occupation or the importance of the release of prisoners.

I thank committee members for visiting the region. It was important that they should fully understand the region which I have visited a couple of times. Only when we visit do we see that the issue is not one-sided. To be fair, we must consider both sides of what is a difficult situation. The Israeli response is collective punishment which is disproportionate, given the severe loss of civilian life. The Taoiseach and I will attend the European Council meeting on Thursday and Friday at which we will discuss how the European Union can reassert its influence in the area. The Union's position is that under international law, the occupation of Gaza was not brought to an end by the unilateral disengagement in August 2005 in the sense that Israel remains in control of sea borders, etc.

I thank the Minister.

The select committee adjourned at 5.25 p.m. sine die.
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