Thar cheann an Roghchoiste ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit ag an Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán agus roimh a chuid oifigigh chun an Meastachán forlíontach a phlé. Is trua liom a chloisteáil go bhfuil an tAire de Valera breoite agus nach féidir lei a bheith anseo. Cuirfidh an tAire Stáit tús lena ráiteas agus ansin beidh cead ag urlabhraí an fhreasúra freagra a thabhairt. Ina dhiaidh sin beidh díospóireacht ghinearálta againn.
Estimates for Public Services, 1998.
Vote 42 — Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands (Supplementary).
Tá mise ag déanamh ionadaíocht thar ceann an Aire; ní féidir lei a bheith anseo tráthnóna.
Teastaíonn uaim mo bhuíochas a ghlacadh leis an roghchoiste as an deis seo mo thairiscintí le haghaidh Meastachán Forlíontach don bhliain reatha a chur faoi bhur mbráid. Is é atá i gceist agam ná an t-airgead nár caitheadh laistigh de Vóta 42 a úsáid chun an chistíocht d'Údarás na Gaeltachta, do Theilifís na Gaeilge agus do Bhord Scannán na hÉireann a mhéadú.
The savings have become available in 1998 due to difficulties in implementing schemes in the National Parks and Wildlife Service and in the case of Údarás na Gaeltachta due to a reduction in the demand for grants arising from a shortage of industrial facilities.
Creidim go bhfuil sé ciallmhar aon airgead atá sábháilte a chaitheamh sa tslí seo i dtreo is go gcuirfear le héifeacht na n-eagraíochtaí atá i gceist. Toisc go ndearna na roghchoiste scrúdú cheana féin ar an Vóta iomlán níos luaithe i mbliana, díreoidh mé mo ráiteas inniu ar na hábhair atá luaithe go sonrach sa Mheastachán Forlíontach.
Is é seo a leanas an soláthar caipitil i Leabhar na Meastachán le haghaidh an Údaráis i 1998.
Fomhírcheann H.2: £11.7 mhilliún; fomhírcheann H.3: £9.4 mhilliún. Is as fomhírcheann H2 de Vóta mo Roinne a íoctar deontais le tionscail deontais chaipitil, deontais fhostaíochta, deontais oiliúna, deontais fhorbartha agus thaighde agus mar sin de. Déantar clár tógála an Údaráis, infheistíochtaí na heagraíochta i scaireanna i gcomhlachtaí Gaeltachta agus ceannach maoine (láithreáin do fhoirgnimh thionsclaíocha ach go háirithe) ag an eagraíocht a airgeadú as fomhírcheann H3 de Vóta mo Roinne.
Mar thoradh ar an mborradh eacnamaíochta tá méadúu suntasach san éileamh ar an Údarás le haghaidh spáis bhreise do thograí. Chun freastal ar an éileamh sin tá an tsuim i bhfomhírcheann H.3 i mbliana á méadú ó £9.4 mhilliún go dtí £13.4 mhilliún. Tá an tÚdarás sásta go mbeidh siad in ann thart ar £13 mhilliún a chaitheamh sa bhliain reatha ar thógáil go príomha agus ar shócmhainní dochta a cheannach. Meastar go gcaithfear £1.7 mhilliún ar scaireanna i mbliana a mhaoineofar as an bhfuílleach de £0.4 mhilliún san fhomhírcheann agus fáltais iomchuí ag an Údarás de £1.3 mhilliún.
Déanfar an méadú de £4m i bhfomhírcheann H.3 a mhaoiniú trí £1 mhilliún a aistriú ó fhormhírcheann H.2 agus trí £3 mhilliún eile a fháil ó shábhála i Vóta mo Roinne. Maidir leis na deontais de tá an tÚdarás sásta gur leor £8.7 mhilliún i mbliana chun íoc as na deontais a thiocfaidh chun aibíochta le haghaidh íocaíochta i mbliana. Sé fáth na difríoctha idir £11.7 mhilliún agus £8.7 mhilliún ná nach raibh an t-éileamh ar dheontais chomh mór agus a measadh ag tús na bliana toisc easpa spáis tionsclaíochta a bheith ann.
I 1999 cuirfear £13.4 mhilliún ar fáil don Údarás faoi fhomhírcheann H.3 go príomha mar a thuilleadh cabhrach chun foirgnimh thionsclaíocha a thógáil ar mhaithe le fostaíocht mhéadaithe a chruthú sa Ghaeltacht.
On Subhead N2, happily, because of the continued expansion of the film industry there is an increasing demand from the indigenous film production sector for the Irish Film Board support by way of additional development and production loans.
To enable the board to meet this increased demand, I propose the allocation of savings in other areas of my Department's Vote to provide an additional capital allocation of £700,000 to the board. This will bring the 1998 capital provision for the board to a total of £4,150,000, an increase of some 20 per cent on the original allocation.
In addition to this extra provision, I have made available £300,000 in 1998 from recoupments by the board of development and production loans so that it can provide additional funding for loans in 1998. With the Supplementary Estimate, this means the board will have available an extra £1 million over the amount of the original Estimate, i.e a 29 per cent increase on the original Estimate. I have no doubt these extra resources will make an important contribution to enabling the Irish Film Board to carry out its statutory role and consolidate its recent success in developing the indigenous film sector in an effective manner.
Maidir le Teilifís na Gaeilge, tá Meastachán Forlíontach de £1 mhilliún á mholadh agam i mdáil le caiteachas reatha (fomhírcheann O.1) agus £200,000 i ndáil le caiteachas caipitil (fomhírcheann O.2). Ón am a dtáinig an stáisiún nuar ar an aer, tá ardmholadh tugtha dó as a gcuid clár. Tá beocht agus bríomhaireacht úrnua léirithe aige, ó thaobh teanga agus ó thaobh teilifíse de. Tá an stáisiún tar éis réimse leathan clár de gach saghas a choimisiúnú — cláir cheoil, drámaí, spórt, cúrsaí reatha agus cláir do pháistí. Go dtí seo, tá breis agus 3,000 uair an chloig maoinithe ag an stáisiún le hairgead-i-gcabhair ón Státchiste. Tá sé i gceist ag Teilifís na Gaeilge na costais choimisiúnaithe agus ceannaithe le haghaidh 65 uair an chloig de chláir bhreise a glanadh as an soláthar breise atá á mholadh agam inniu. San áireamh ansin, beidh réimse leathan clár de shaghasanna difriúla; cláir bheo, cartúin, spórt, cúrsaí reatha agus mar sin de. Úsáidfear cuid bheag den airgead reatha le haghaidh bolscaireachta ar an mbunús go mbíonn gá lena leithéid i dtimpeallacht chraolacháin ina mbíonn iachall ar gach uile stáisiún teilifíse a phort féín a sheinnt, mar a déarfá, ar bhonn leanúnach.
Maidir le caiteachas caipitil de, tá sé i gceist ag Teilifís na Gaeilge an soláthar breise a chaitheamh ar roinnt tionscnamh ar leith. Tá sé i gceist cur le neart an chórais tarchuradóireachta atá ag an stáisiún tríd a cheangail saitilíte a ath-shuíomh. Tá pleananna acu freisin chun breis acmhainní stórála a chur leis an infrastruchtúr teicniúil sa cheanncheathrú i mBaile na hAbhann. Beidh ar a gcumas freisin córas leictreonach a fhorbairt d'ábhar bolscaireachta an stáisiúin, rud a chabhróidh leo úsáid níos éifeachtaí a fháil as an infheistíocht atá déanta acu sa réimse seo. Tá pleananna idir lámha ag an stáisiún freisin chun suíomh den scoth ar an idirlíon a fhorbairt.
Tuigfidh baill an Roghchoiste, mar sin, go gcuideoidh an soláthar breise atá molta do Theilifís na Gaeilge go mór leis an stáisiún.
Molaim an Meastachán Forlíontach seo don Roghchoiste agus beidh mé sásta aon cheisteanna a fhreagairt ar an ábhar.
Tá súil agam go dtiocfaidh biseach ar an Aire go luath. Fáiltím roimh an Aire Stáit agus roimh oifigigh na Roinne.
Cad iad go díreach na foirgnimh agus na heastáit tionsclaíoch a gcaithfear an £4 mhilliún breise sna meastacháin orthu. Cén méid a chaithfear sna Gaeltachtaí éagsúla? An bhfuil an t-eolas sin aige?
Ag éirí as an gcaiteachas seo, an bhfuil sé ar intinn aige poist nua a fhógairt? Maidir le Teilifís na Gaeilge, fáiltím roimh an milliún punt eile atá curtha ar fáil di. Is maith an rud gur cuireadh ar bun é. Bhí baint agam féin leis an Rialtas a chuir ar bun é, a raibh an Teachta Higgins mar Aire ann.
Ó thaobh an Irish Film Board de, this matter was raised at the Minister's recent presentation here and several times in the Dáil by a number of Deputies. Clearly there is a waiting time required by Government but in reply to a recent question asking that section 35 be renewed and a clear signal sent to the film industry to that effect, the Minister said we should not be too worried about it, that the matter would be dealt with. In his budget speech the Minister for Finance indicated that there would have to be an examination and a waiting period before this could be renewed in the Finance Act. I am not sure we should proceed on a nod and wink understanding but the indications given to me by the film industry and in the independent film sector are that if present growth is to continue consistency is necessary.
The people involved have great imagination, are very committed and need to have at their disposal this financial and legislative vehicle to continue to raise money to develop the industry. Perhaps the Minister would comment on that.
Maidir le Teilifís na Gaeilge, fáiltím roimh an milliún punt eile atá curtha ar fáil di. Is maith an rud gur cuireadh ar bun é. Bhí baint agam féin leis an Rialtas a chuir ar bun é, a raibh an Teachta Higgins mar Aire ann.
This Supplementary Estimate is welcome but if it had not become available Teilifís na Gaeilge would be constrained. I accept that the Government wants this station to continue to develop and to flourish but I am told by those in the know that the commissioning moneys available to Teilifís na Gaeilge and the costs involved in programme making really mean that Teilifís na Gaeilge, while being allowed to exist, will not thrive. I do not know if more political priority is needed or the industry requires more money but if this situation continues, many young people of creativity and ability will not stay with it. They will move to other television stations.
I have a letter here from a person involved in programme production saying that in producing a series for Teilifís na Gaeilge he had to confine the production to a much shorter period than he would have liked.
We will not get the best quality possible from these people because of the limited amount of money available to Teilifís na Gaeilge. Obviously, there will be a chance to discuss this in greater details on the Estimates for 1999. Having set up a fledgeling station when digital television is in its infancy — it and the RTE stations will face enormous competition — if we are to continue to present that Irishness that makes us different and unique as a people, and make the Irish language available to all, Teilifís na Gaeilge will need extra resources.
I am sure the Minister of State wants this station to thrive. I support any moves to increase the spend for it.
I am not too sure what is meant by "On the capital side Teilifís na Gaeilge plan to use the extra funding to improve the resilience security of its distribution and contribution system."
Tá an leagan Gaeilge i bhfad níos fearr.
"Caithfear an soláthar breise ar roinnt tionscnamh ar leith."
Tá i gceist cur le neart an chóras tarchuradóireachta ar an stáisiún tríd a cheangal saitilíte a athshuíomh.
Sin iad na ceisteanna atá agam.
Aontaím leis na daoine a chuir gach dea-ghuí go dtí an Aire. Tá súil agam go mbeidh sí ar ais sar i bhfad.
Baineann an Meastachán Forlíontach le trí rud, méadú do Theilifís na Gaeilge agus méadú don Bhord Scannán The Irish Film Board.
Fáiltím roimh an ardú sna meastacháin ghinearálta agus roimh an ardú seo chomh maith. Aontaím go hiomlán leis an méid a dúirt an Teachta Kenny faoin éiginnteacht atá ag baint le cúrsaí scannánaíochta faoi láthair de thoradh easpa cinnidh maidir le Alt 481 nó mar a bhí go dtí anuraidh, Alt 35 i gcúrsaí scannánaíochta.
It would be wrong not to welcome this extra funding. Every penny spent on Irish film has given an enormous return by any standard, and by comparison with other Estimates, even in the same Department, administrative costs are low. Through the multiplier fact in the film community it is giving great value for dispersed money throughout the economy, with a welcome regionalised spend.
The General Secretary agrees with this Committee that it would have been better to have stuck with "section 35" as a name. Section 35 had been branded internationally as an enormously successful film incentive investment scheme associated with Ireland.
When following a previous Indecon report we renegotiated the assurance in section 35 for a three-year period. It was to give assurance to film-makers, who take budget decisions 18 months in advance, so that they can commit money and seek funding. The allowance runs to April 1999. We are now in December 1998 and a decision has not been taken, even though the report is with the Minister.
Yesterday the Minister for Finance could have taken any one of four decisions — to continue section 481, to amend it, to replace it or to wind it up. To suggest for example that the report has been submitted but a decision has not been taken leaves an inevitable and corrosive cloud of uncertainty over film-making.
I am encouraged to speak candidly here. I am not surprised at the Minister for Finance's lack of commitment. I wish he had more courage to take on the officials in his Department. They have been notoriously unsympathetic to film-making from the beginning and were involved in the decision in 1987 to abolish funding to the Film Board until I reinstated it in 1993.
The attitude of the Department of Finance was that money invested under section 35 was a loss to revenue. Even in the construction of terms of reference for the consultants' report in my time I found the attitude there both conservative and unhelpful and insensitive to the possibilities of film.
In 1992 the gross spend on film was about £11.4 million; in 1995 it had risen to £167 million. All that capacity was there but it had been missed and the attitude I detected was that since they had not detected employment capacity or opportunities for investment, then no one else should do it.
This is only slightly different to the unhelpful attitude that was always there in relation to Teilifís na Gaeilge. Two doctoral theses have now been completed on the setting up of the station and I have recently been looking at my notes of what was written to me at various times about it. I recall when the Taoiseach as Minister for Finance — although he and all parties have been very helpful about Teilifís na Gaeilge — sent me one of the traditional Department of Finance letters which could be deconstructed to read, "Over our dead body will it be established".
What they forgot to put in as a footnote was, "If the Minister proceeds in this way we will make him pay for it", which they did in regard to some of the estimates I negotiated at bi-lateral level.
Tá géarghá le hairgead caipitil do Theilifís na Gaeilge ní amháin chun córas tarchuradóireachta a aistriú ach freisin chun an t-aistriú go dtí an córas digiteach a airgeadú. Tá sé rí-soiléir faoi láthair go mbeidh an-chostas ag baint leis sin agus tá neamhchinnteacht ann maidir le nithe gur chóir go mbeadh Teilifís na Gaeilge cinnte futhu. Mar shampla, cé mhéid a bheith orthu a íoc leis an dream nua a bheas i mbun cúrsaí craolacháin? Who will fix the figure that Teilifís na Gaeilge will pay to the transmission authority after digitalisation? What is the estimated figure for the transition from analog to digital in the case of Teilifís na Gaeilge? How is it proposed to fund this and will the roll-out of 90 per cent coverage and 100 per cent total coverage in the Gaeltachts be achieved with the analog system before the transition to digital? What costings are available for this? Is the changeover for Teilifís na Gaeilge from a relationship with the RTE Authority to autonomy which, I understand, is going to be proposed in the forthcoming legislation? Has that been completed? Will these issues be solved before the transition in status is accomplished?
In relation to Teilifís na Gaeilge, as the person who sought from Government the two decisions that established Teilifís na Gaeilge, one in 1993 and one in 1995, I can say it was never stated in any document prepared for Government, nor is it in any Government decision, that their annual allocation was limited to the sum specified, adjusted for inflation. It was simply given as a guarantee that that sum would always be there; but there was no inhibition or prohibition or obstacle to putting an upper limit on the expenditure for Teilifís na Gaeilge.
Teilifís na Gaeilge has been a success story. I warmly thank the political parties agus táim á rá seo i láthair an Aire Stáit mar tá sé ráite go poiblí agam cheana. Táim an-bhuíoch don tacaíocht a thug gach páirtí polaitiúil ag an am don togra. It was very important. The politicians were ahead of the reactionary posse who constituted the frithfheachtas, who are so disabled psychologically by their inheritance that they are embarrassed by the Irish language and wish it would die.
It would be very wrong to leave the station without the funding necessary to build up a new bank of cláir. It had prepared for its launch date ach tá an banc sin ídithe agus tá gá le cláir nua a dhéanamh. Freisin, má táthar ag iarraidh na huaireanta a leathnú, ba chóir go mbeadh banc eile clár ullamh ag an bpointe seo. Ní féidir leo ach surviveáil a dhéanamh sa chaoi ina bhfuil siad faoi láthair. Beidh gá le hairgead eile.
An tríú rud sna meastacháin fhorlíontacha seo ná airgead d'Údarás na Gaeltachta. Ar bhealach, nílimid ach ag aistriú airgead ó cheannteideal amháin go ceannteideal eile.
Móide milliún punt.
Sea, bhí mé ag teacht go dtí an pointe sin. Tabharfaidh mé an creidiúint iomlán duit faoin milliún punt ach is ceithre milliún atá scríofa síos. Tá trí milliún á athrú ó cheannteideal amháin go ceannteideal eile. I am not a constitutional expert but I doubt that the Minister of State needed the permission of this committee or of the Dáil to move that three million pounds from one heading to another. If it had been done in my time, some nefarious intent would probably have been attributed to it.
Now that we established that we are not talking about four million but about one million, that one million is welcome.
Toisc gur luaigh an tAire Stáit an milliún punt, cad as ar tháinig sé? Sábháltais ar nithe eile taobh istigh den Roinn agus luadh dhá phointe airgead nár caitheadh faoi NPWS agus airgead nár caitheadh ar Údarás na Gaeltachta. Interesting matters of a cosmological nature have happened since I left the Department. In the case of Oileán Thoraí, without the papers in front of me, I think the Department allocated more than four million pounds when I was Minister.
£4.8 million.
Yes. We spent between £1.1 million and £1.6 million but suddenly after June 1997 Tory Island became extraordinarily open to the elements, which delayed the work. Then we were told that the weather got bad. It was bad again another year and Tory Island became even more exposed. The net result was that £600,000 was spent where previously £1.5 million had been spent. Suddenly the savings in relation to Tory Island are presented by the Department as something that could not have been anticipated. I hope the people of Tory understand how to change the weather.
We voted a sum for Tory. The money was spent in two successive years. The money that was not spent in the second year was recycled for other expenditure in the Department and the Minister of State knows very well where that money was spent. It funded the bóithre áise in the first year and caitheadh cuid mhaith de ar chúrsaí tithíochta. That option, if it had been open to me when I had been there, would not have been used. Bluntly, those schemes should only be funded through the Estimates. The Minister of State should not penalise the people of Tory. They deserve those céibheanna, they have been waiting for them for generations and when the money was finally allocated for them, it is quite scandalous that it is being used as a sort of cover. Is the Department expecting more bad weather this year so that there will be more savings? It is wonderful how a change of Government can change the elements so fundamentally.
Fáiltím roimh na harduithe atá fógraithe ag an Aire. Aontaím gur fiú an t-airgead a chaitheamh ar chúrsaí scannánaíochta agus tá sé ag teastáil ó Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is maith an rud é go bhfuil borradh eacnamaíochta ann agus go bhfuil gá le foirgnimh nua a thógáil. Chomh maith leis sin, cé nach leor an t-airgead ach cabhróidh sé le Teilifís na Gaeilge surviveáil cé nach gcuirfidh sé ar a gcumas níos mó a dhéanamh.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an meastachán forlíontach seo atá á gcur inár láthair inniu ag an Aire Stáit. Mheas mé go dtí gur labhair an Teachta Ó hUiginn gur £5.9 milliún a bhí ann; níl mé cinnte anois caidé an méid atá ann go díreach ach aon airgead breise a thiocfaidh isteach chuig Údarás na Gaeltachta nó chuig Teilifís na Gaeilge caithfimid fáilte a chur roimhe.
An t-airgead atá á chaitheamh ag Údarás na Gaeltachta, sílim go bhfuil sé ag dúl go príomha ag tógáil agus ag cothabháil monarchana atá ansin cheana féin. Tá a fhios agam le bliain anuas go raibh deacrachtaí ag an Údarás maidir le monarchana breise a chur ar fáil sna ceantair Ghaeltachta bheaga, ach go háirithe. Tá eolas ag an Teachtaí anseo ar na Gaeltachtaí beaga ina nDáilcheantair féin. Tá mise ag cuimhniú ar Ghaeltachtaí beaga i mo dháilcheantar féin cosúil leis an iar-dheisceart, Gleann Cholm Cille, Cill Cárthaigh, An Charraig, Baile na Finne agus áiteacha mar sin nach ndeachaigh aon infheistíocht mhór isteach i réamh-mhonarchana ann fiú ó bunaíodh an tÚdarás go dtí an lá atá inniú ann. Tá súil agam le haon airgead breise a bheas ar fáil nach ndéanfar dearmad ar an ghá atá le monarchana agus le fostaíocht a chur ar fáil sna ceantair seo má tá an teanga le maireachtáil agus na daoine fanúint iontu. Tá súil agam go mbeidh toradh le feiceáil ar seo go luath.
Tá géarghá le cothabháil a dhéanamh ar mhonarchana a thóg idir Údarás na Gaeltachta agus Gaeltarra roimhe sin le fiche bliain anuas. Cuimhním ar eastát tionsclaíoch i nGaoth Dóbhair, áit a bhfuil breis is míle agus dhá chéad duine ag obair. Táimid an-bhródúil as an eastát sin.
Sílim gur cheann de na seoda é de chuid Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is minic a shiúilim thart ar feadh uair a chloig ansin um thráthnóna nó san oíche tar éis teacht abhaile, rud is aoibhinn liom a dhéanamh. Tá an eastát lasta suas go deas, tá cosáin choise ann agus tá sé sabháilte. Tá lúcháir orm go bhfuil acmhainní á gcur ar fáil i láthair na huaire le feabhas a chur ar thimpeallacht an eastáit, na cosáin choise a dhéanamh níos fearr agus áiseanna eile a chur ar fáil. Sílim go bhfuil na daoine an — bhródúil as an eastát tionsclaíoch agus na postanna atá acu. Ba chóir go mbeadh siad bródúil as an eastát, go mbeadh sé taitneamhnach ó thaobh na timpeallachta de, agus go mbeadh crainn agus bláthanna ann chomh mhaith. Tá cuid den airgead á chur ar fáil fá choinne sin agus cuirim fáilte roimh seo.
Tá airgead chomh maith á chur ar fáil do Theilifís na Gaeilge agus mar a dúirt na cainteoirí eile, sílim go bhfuil an obair déanta ag Teilifís na Gaeilge ó cuireadh ar bun é i Mí na Samhna, 1996. Sílim go bhfuil acmhainní teoranta acu i láthar na huaire agus go bhfuil sé de dhualgas orainn, má táimid chun an chaighdeán atá á chur ar fáil acu go dtí seo a choinneál, na hacmhainní a chur ar fáil chun sin a dhéanamh. Tá beirt de na daoine a raibh baint acu leis an stáisiún a chuir ar bun i láthair, sin An Teachta Michael D. Higgins agus mo chomhleacaí, An Teachta Enda Kenny. Tá an tacaíocht ag leanúint ar aghaidh. Tá cláir d'ardchaighdeán á gcur ar fáil ag an stáisiún agus tá roinnt airgid curthe ar fáil chun bolscaireacht a dhéanamh do Theilifís na Gaeilge ionas go bhfaighidh daoine nach bhfuil a fhios acu conas Teilifís na Gaeilge a fháil nó nach bhfuil taithí acu breathnu air, eolas faoi.
Is mór an trua go bhfuil áiteanna i mo dháilcheantar sa Ghaeltacht nach bhfuil teacht rialta acu ar Theilifís na Gaeilge. Déanaim tagairt go speisialta do Cloich Cheann Fhaola agus go mór mhór Baile an Fhál Charraig. Níl a fhios agam cad iad na deacrachtaí atá ansin. Bhí mé ag taispeántas ealaíne san Fhál Charraig oíche Shatharn agus tháinig cúpla duine chugam á rá nach bhfuil teacht acu ar Theilifís na Gaeilge go fóill. Dúirt mé gur minic a chuirim ceist sa Dáil faoi sin. Ní raibh fhios agam go mbeadh deis agam é a chuir roimh an Aire Stáit inniu. Sílim gur fiú breathnú cad is féidir a dhéanamh sa cheantar fíor-Ghaeltachta sin, is é sin Gort a Choirce agus an Fhál Charraig, an dá sráidbhaile is Gaelaí dá bhfuil i nGaeltacht ar bith sa tír. Bíonn an tAifreann ar an Domhnach trí Gaeilge agus tá Gaeilge sna scoltachta, go mór mhór i nGort a Choirce agus timpeall Caiseal na gCorr agus Cnoc na Naomh. B'fhéidir go ndéantar fiosrúcháin faoi seo. Bhí Comórtas Peile na Gaeltachta ann níos luaithe sa bhliain agus rinne socrú ag an am sin go mbeadh na daoine abálta breathnú ar Theilifís na Gaeilge dó. Ach nuair a bhí an comórtas thart cuireadh deireadh leis an teicneolaíocht a bhí i bhfeidhm i rith an chomórtais. Ní dhearna mé tagairt ach do cheantar amháin, ach b'fhéidir go bhfuil ceantrachta eile i gceist freisin.
Tory Island was mentioned to which the previous Government allocated almost £5 million. Deputy Michael Higgins, has spoken about it and the then Minister of State was there on numerous occasion, as has been the current Minister of State. There was a great slow down in work there last year for whatever reason — Deputy Higgins has given some explanations for this — while work on the pier ceased very early. I do not know if this was to do with the weather or ganntanas airgid — bhféidir go bhfaighimid amach níos déanaí. Cé go raibh siad mall ag tosnu tá áthas orm go bhfuil an obair ag dul ar aghaidh go fóill agus nach bhfuil an aimsir ag cur isteach ar i láthair na huaire, mar tá siad ag cur dromchla ar an ché. Is dócha go mbeidh an obair ag dul ar aghaidh go deireadh na bliana. Tá súil agam go rachaidh an Chairman ann an t-earrach nó an samhradh seo chugainn agus go bhfeicfidh sé an t-athrú mór atá tar éis teacht ar rudaí ón uair a láinseáil sé an scéim bliain nó dhó ó shin. Bhí an tAire Stáit ann cúpla uair i rith an tsamhraidh.
The Office of Public Works is responsible for the work there. It has been mentioned in coastal areas that there seems to be a change of tack in the Department and that it is considering tendering for the rest of the work on Tory Island. Is there any truth in this? If there is, why will the Office of Public Works not finish what it has started? Are there plans to tender for the remaining work? This was brought to my attention as recently as last week. I believe engineers have already been there to examine the feasibility of this course of action. We are very happy with the quality of work done to date. Meileann an Office of Public Works go moill, ach mar sin féin meileann siad go breá. Ba mhór an trua é nach féidir leo an obair a thosaigh siad a chríochnú.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an mheastacháin agus aon rud a chuidíonn le fostaíocht sa Gaeltacht nó le Teilifís na Gaeilge. Tá cláracha á gcur ar fáil ag Teilifís na Gaeilge, tá daoine ag breathnú air agus tá níos mó poiblíochta á dhéanamh faoi. Ní ceart dearmad a dhéanamh ar an méid daoine óga ar fud na Gaeltachtaí uilig a bhfuil scileanna acu ag déanamh scannánaíocht, fuaimeanna, agus eile, a bhfuil ag obair go díreach nó le comhlachtaí atá ag cur cláracha ar fáil do Theilifís na Gaeilge. Is cinnte go bhfuil daoine óga ón Ghaeltacht agus ó áiteanna eile sa tír thar a bheith oilte agus ba cheart a bheith bródúil astu. Is dócha go gcuirfidh é seo le cursaí scannaíochta amach anseo agus go gcuideoidh sé leis an tionscail seo. Sa tslí seo beimid ábalta an áit atá againn i láthair na huaire i dtaobh tionscail na cumarsáide a choinneál agus bhféidir cur leis san am atá romhainn.
The Estimates for the Irish Film Board and Teilifís na Gaeilge are interlinked and can support each other. We welcome the Estimate but always wish more was provided. This is particularly pertinent, and perhaps critical, in terms of our national identity. The committee is particularly conscious of the onslaught of satellite and the technology which could overwhelm us, leaving us with overwhelming odds against retaining our own media, and cultural identity. In this context it is essential that section 35 as a touchstone and an internationally recognised incentive is retained and used.
We have had fine presentations from TnaG during the year regarding the demands on them, first with regard to retaining national identity and the cultural foundations they have so well set up. More thought could be given in future budgets to the fact that the capital and running costs the Minister is including in this increased Estimate will only go a certain part of the way in improving TnaG's flexibilty in terms of programming. Some of it is for capital as well. TnaG has voiced its concern about the increased costs and technical knowledge it will need for digitalisation and to compete with global and satellite concerns. Cathal Goan and the others who made the presentation mentioned that the reason for their success in such a practical and productive way, was that since the initial start-up they had a small pool of savings which was fast running out. They needed a budget increase because when the pool ran out, if they had to compete and build on what was already there, there would be a need for further investment. I am sure the Minister of State would agree that we, as a committee, should press for a far greater increase in the next budget.
Is dul chun cinn maith é an méid airgid bhreise atá ar fáil anois thar bhlianta eile. Bheimis go léir an-sásta le airgead níos mó agus tá ardú mór ann thar aon bhliain eile.
Ó tharla gur thóg beagnach chuile dhuine ceist faoi na trí mheastachán éagsúla atá anseo, déanfaidh mé iarracht é a thógáil ar ábhar agus má dearmadaím aon cheist, meabhraigh dom é.
Maidir le Údarás na Gaeltaachta, ba mhaith liom roinnt rudaí a shoiléiriú. Go luath i mbliana dúirt an tÚdarás liomsa, mar Aire Stáit, go mbeidís ag iarraidh £5 mhilliún breise airgead tógála. Chas mé leo ag tús an tsamhraidh agus an am sin dúirt siad go raibh siad ag iarraidh £3 mhilliún mar go roinnt tograí a raibh súil acu dul ar aghaidh leo ag tús na bliana gur dóigh anois nach dtiocfadh ar aghaidh. Dúirt siad freisin ag an am gurb é a dtuairim nach gcaithfeadh siad an t-airgead deontais uilig a bhí curtha ar fáil do dheontais thionsclaíocha. Caitear an t-airgead sin ar éileamh agus níl tada gur féidir liomsa a dhéanamh ná ní féidir é a stóráil: caitear é nó ní chaitear é i mbliain reatha. D'aontaigh mé ag an am sin go mbreathnódh an Roinn go fabhrach ag deireadh na bliana leis an aistriú seo ó dheontais chaipiteal isteach go tógáil. Ar an gcaoi sin bhí siad in ann dul ar aghaidh leis an gclár tógála. D'fhág sé sin milliún punt agus dúirt mé go mbreathnódh muid ar sin ag deireadh na bliana. Mar chéatadán den chaitheachas iomlán, dá gcaithfí é a iompar ar aghaidh go dtí an chéad bhliain eile, níor fhadhb mhór í.
Tháinig siad ar ais á rá de bharr pointí eile go mbeidís in ann déanamh gan trí mhilliún de na deontais chaipitil, nach raibh aon ghá acu leo chun a gcuid dliteanais a íoc. Ag an am gcéanna, bheadh siad in ann £4 mhilliún breise a chaitheamh ar thógáil. Níl aon aistharraingt á dhéanamh ach ar airgead a dúirt an tÚdarás nach raibh gnó ar bith acu dó roimh dheireadh na bliana.
Tá siad ag rá liom ó thús na bliana go bhfuil brú orthu maidir leis an gclár tógála. Chuige sin, tá áthas orm go bhfuil ar mo chumas ligean dóibh £13.4 mhillíun a chaitheamh ar thógáil i mbliana. Caithfear é sin a chur i gcomhthéacs an t-airgead a bhí á chaitheamh sna blianta roimhe seo. Mar shampla, caitheadh £9.8 i 1997, £6.6 i 1996, £9.75 i 1995 agus £6.25 i 1994. Sin meán de £7 mhilliún.
I mbliana agus don bhliain seo chugainn táimid ag caint ar bhreis is £13 mhilliún. Chuir an Teachta Kenny ceist orm cá háit go díreach a chaithfear an t-airgead. Tá clár ollmhór iomlán cuimsitheach acu. Táthar ag caitheamh airgead mór ag athchóiriú seanmhonarchana le ligean ar léas arís. Mar shampla, bhí fadhbanna i gcuid díobh leis an díon agus mar sin de. Tá pleananna pléite agam leis an Údarás méadú a chur ar an dtógáil agus tá siad ag breathnú ar na ceantair atá scoite amach a bhfuil gá acu le monarcha.
Is bord reachtúil neamhspleách é an tÚdarás. Cuirim an t-airgead ar fáil dóibh ach ní féidir liom ar rá leo conas é a chaitheamh go sonrach. Ceann de na cásanna rinne siad ar son breis airgid ná go dteastaíonn uathu díriú ar chuid de na ceantair bheaga nach bhfuil forbairt déanta iontu go dtí seo.
Luadh na cosáin choise ar eastát tionsclaíoch Ghaoth Dóbhair agus tá áthas orm go raibh mé beagán airgid a chur ar fáil do chosáin choise i mbliana faoi scéim na mbóithre áise. Tá sé tábhachtach bail níos fearr a chur ar an mbealach isteach go dtí na heastáit don uair a thagann tionsclóir ag féachaint le tionscal a chur ar bun iontu.
Tógadh ceist faoi Oileán Thoraí. Ó tháinig mise isteach mar Aire Stáit, is ag gríosú na n-eagras éagsúla — an chomhairle contae, Roinn na Mara — chun oibre atá mé. Níl mé ag iarraidh moill a chur ar éinne mar tá mé ag iarraidh an t-airgead a chaitheamh. Ag deireadh na bliana seo, beidh £4 mhilliún caite ar Oileán Thoraí. Níl aon bhaint ag an Roinn seo leis an mhoill ar an obair sin. Beidh caiteachas de £4.6 i gceist leis an obair seo a chríochnú agus deirtear go bhfuil súil acu é a bheith críochnaithe roimh an bhliain 2000. Tá súil agam go dtiocfaidh sé ar aghaidh chomh sciobtha agus is féidir. Deirtear liom go mbeidh thart ar £6 mhilliún i gceist. Tá sé ráite go gcuirfear cibé airgead atá ag teastáil ar fáil chun an obair sin a chríochnú; níl an Roinn seo ag déanamh aon mhoilleadóireacht.
Níl aon eolas agam mar gheall ar chonraitheoirí a thabhairt isteach — is nuacht é sin domsa. Maidir le muiroibreacha i gcoitinne, tá an cheist pléite agam le Roinn na Mara agus tá siad faoi bhrú chun pleananna a réiteach maidir le tograí i gcoitinne. Tá ceann amháin in Árainnmhór agus táimid ag caint leis an gcomhairle contae agus le Roinn an Mara féachaint cén bealach gur féidir an obair seo a dheifriú más rud é go bhfuil sé níos feiliúnaí go ndéanfadh an chomhairle contae cuid den obair dhearaidh le thograí a thabhairt ar aghaidh déanfar é sin ar mhaithe le héascaíocht agus le tuilleadh oibre a dhéanamh. Ní fadhb airgid é ach fadhb an obair a fháil faoi réir.
On the film industry, I suppose the old names are best. It is nothing to do with the Department of Finance. It is a question of going through a process. A report was commissioned for the Minister which she is examining. She has also referred it to the think tank for their views. The commitment given in the budget was quite clear; this matter will be resolved before the Finance Act. We are talking about a finite period in which all these issues will be resolved and finalised. The think tank's report was favourable towards section 35 or section 481. I hope that clarifies the matter.
Can I take it the Minister is giving an assurance that the decision will be made in advance of the publication of the Finance Bill?
The Minister for Finance was quite clear in the budget statement——
He was not. That is the problem. I am anxious to be of assistance. If the Minister says a decision will be announced before the publication of the Finance Bill that satisfies many things and the situation is not as bad as we thought. However, if that is not so there will be a period in which there will not be a policy and we will have lost the international impact of marketing section 35 without announcing what is to be put in its place.
The Minister for Finance's statement yesterday is a little behind what the Minister is now saying.
All the Minister for Finance said was that the Minister had the report.
He did not.
She said in a supplementary to her reply that he——
If one reads the budget statement — I will come back to that later——
He referred to the process.
No, he referred to the Finance Act.
He referred to the Finance Act but he did not give any certainty.
I will come back to that issue. Bhí go leor ceisteanna ann faoi Theilifís na Gaeilge agus is údar spreagtha domsa go bhfuil an oiread sin tacaíochta á tabhairt do Theilifís na Gaeilge. Aontaim leis an méid a dúradh, go raibh uaireanta an chloig curtha ar fáil sular thosaigh an stáisiún, agus go raibh siad sa mbanc mar a déarfá. Sin fadhb a d'ardaigh Teilifís na Gaeilge linne nuair a chas siad linn, agus sin an fáth go bhfuil an t-airgead seo curtha ar fáil. Ní don bhliain reatha, ach tá údar speisialta leis an airgead seo. Tá 75 uair an chloig chraolta a réiteadh nó a choimisiúnadh, a bheith mar bhanc ag Teilifís na Gaeilge amach anseo. B'fhéidir ag cur cláir i dtaisce arís atáimid, agus silim gur rud maith é seo.
An dara rud ná ceist Theilifís na Gaeilge go gineáralta agus airgeadú. Glacaim leis méid a dúirt an Teachta Higgins faoin bhfigiúr a luadh ag an tús — gur bunfhigiúr é. An fhad agus atá sé sin á shárú, tá sé á shárú agus níl teora leis an méid airgid a bhféadfaí a thabhairt, tuigimid uile san. Go mór mór muide agus daoine go bhfuil Gaeilge acu agus a úsáideann í chuile lá, b'fhearr linn níos mó uaireanta air. Sílim go bhfuil obair an-mhaith ar bun ag Teilifís na Gaeilge.
Maidir le cúrsaí reachtaíochta, is dóigh go reiteoidh sé sin go leor do na cheisteanna ó thaobh éiginnteachta de. Beidh fráma istigh sa reachtaíocht agus déanfar orduithe ansin faoin bhfráma sin maidir le Teilifís na Gaeilge. Caithfear déanamh cinnte de agus tá sé seo ráite ag an Aire í féin sa Dáil, go mbeidh bail shásúil ar an gcóras tarchuradóireachta go mór mór i gcomhthéacs digitalisation, nuair a thiocfaidh an roinnt idir Theilifís na Gaeilge agus RTE agus thabharfar neamhspleáchas. Tá sé fíorthábhachtach, sa chomthéacs sin, go mbeidh freagrachtaí go ginearálta agus comhcheangal idir Teilifís na Gaeilge agus RTE. Ag deireadh an lae tá acmhainní acu siúd a ba cheart go mbeadh stáisiún mar Theilifís na Gaeilge in ann tarraingt orthu. Beidh na rudaí san á bplé arís, agus is dóigh go mbeimid i bhfad níos soiléire faoi sin nuair a thagann ceist na reachtaíochta chun cinn.
Maidir le ceist fháil ar Theilifís na Gaeilge, de réir mar a thuigim, an rud atá leis an £250,000 ná go bhfuil contúirt ar an gcomhartha má theipeann ar chóras amháin faoi láthair, agus gurb iad na focail chearta a ba chóir a bheith ansin ná "the security of the system". Sé sin, má chliseann ar rud amháin, níl an dara bealach ann anois agus go mbeidh an dara bealach ceangail ann ó Bhaile na hAbhann agus mar sin níl an oiread contúirte go mbeidh sé mar a bhíodh RTE fadó — Is dona linn an briseadh seo.
Maidir leis na Gaeltachtaí o thuaidh agus ceist an Teachta McGinley, táthar ar feadh tamaill ag iarraidh transposer thuas ar an bhFál Carrach agus cuirfidh san seirbhís nios fearr ar fáil——
Níl sé i gKerrykeel, anyway.
Sin ceist eile. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an Teachta in ann a chinntiú nach mbeidh aon chur ina choinne seo. Tá mé a' ceapadh nach údar achrainne iad na tarchuradóirí teilifíse, cibé faoin gcuid eile. Tá obair ar bun i Dooncarton i gContae Mhaigh Eo agus tá tábhacht le sin. Tá ceann eile i gCiarraí tar éis teacht ar an aer le seachtain anuas. Mar sin tá obair eile ar bun ó thaobh fháil ar Theilifís na Gaeilge agus tá súil agam go leanfaidh sé sin agus tá a fhios agam go bhfuiltear ag obair an t-am le déanamh cinnte go ndéileáileofar leis na black spots.
Tá cás amháin agamsa gar do bhaile áit a cuireadh ceann de na tarchuradóirí beaga ar fáil agus an té a dhíol an talamh sin len é a chur ann, níl sé in ann an tseirbhís a fháil fós mar go raibh seisean faoin gcarraig. Ach sin scéal eile. Bíonn sé deacair na fadhbanna seo go léir a réiteach ach tuigtear dom go bhfuiltear ag obair air sin.
Tá súil agam go bhfuilim tar éis déileáil le bunáite na gceisteanna a tógadh.
Níor fhreagair an tAire Stáit faoi section 35.
Tá freagra ar Cheist Dála agam anseo agus soiléiríonn sé an cheist. "An interim report on the section 481 which was submitted to me in September this year recommended retention of section 481. Furthermore, the report of the independent economic consulting examination commission at the request of the think tank has just been received by me." Sin an tAire de Valera ag caint. "I am referring this report to the think tank to assist in its examination of existing schemes and incentives. I am also having this report examined by my Department."
Is obair Ranna atá ar bun agus gheobhaidh sí é sin ar ais. De réir mar a thuigim caithfear rud éigin a dhéanamh mar táimid ag teacht go deireadh tréimhse, agus is feidir glacadh leis go bhfuil sé i gceist——
Ina dhiaidh sin duirt an tAire na bíodh imní oraibh faoin rud seo. Bhí sí níos láidre ná an tAire Airgeadais.
'Sé a dúirt an tAire ná go mbeadh leanúnachas ag baint le scéim chabhrach don scannánaiocht. Tá fonn ormsa a bheith cabhrach le cúrsaí scannánaíochta. Ní chabhraíonn le héinne má bhíonn éiginnteacht ann. Is feidir an brí sin a thogaint as an gCeist Dála is déanaí a d'fhreagair an tAire, nach bhfuil a haigne déanta suas aici ar an tuarascáil agus b'fhéidir go mbeidh an scéim bunaithe ar cháin nó ar chabhair dhíreach nó rud mar sin. Sin an rud a bhfuil na hinfheisteoirí ag féachaint air: an mbeidh scéim ann tar éis an 11 Aibreán an bhliain seo chugainn?
Mar is eol don Teachta, tá sé molta ag an think tank go mbeidh a leithéid ann. Tá na tuarascálacha ag an Aire. Ar ndóigh ní fhéadfadh an tAire Airgeadais breithiúnas a thabhairt ar an gceist roimh an Aire Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán. Tá an obair ar bun agus beidh na moltaí á ndéanamh chomh sciobtha agus is féidir. Faraor géar nach féidir liom teacht díreach ar an bhfoclaíocht don rud a dúirt an tAire Airgeadais inné agus sílim má léitear go cúramach é go ndeireann sé go sonrach go mbeidh moltaí agus réiteach ar an gceist seo sa mBille Airgeadais.
Fáiltím roimh an méid atá le rá ag an Aire Stáit, ach ní dúirt an tAire Airgeadais a leithéid inné. Is é a dúirt sé ná go ndéanfadh sé a aigne suas nuair a bheadh an próiseas críochnaithe agus go mbeadh polasaí ann. Má tá an tAire Stáit go mbeidh scéim ann in am táim sásta glacadh leis sin.
Rinne an tAire Airgeadais tagairt sonrach don Bhille Airgeadais. Ar ndóigh, ní féidir leis dul roimh mholtaí ón Aire Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán mar is ise atá ag déanamh an aithbhreithnithe. Táimid ag argóint thart ar phointe an-bheag.
Ní pointe an-bheag é. Ba chóir go mbeimís soiléir faoi. Nuair a cuireadh an staidéar ar bun, aontaíodh na téarmaí tagartha idir an Roinn Airgeadais agus an Roinn Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán. Is eol don Roinn Airgeadais a bhfuil sa tuarascáil.
Má tá an tAire Stáít ag rá liom go mbeidh scéim scríofa síos sa Bhille a leanfaidh ar aghaidh tar éis an 11 Meitheamh, táim sásta glacadh leis sin. Ach níl sé iontuigthe ón méid a dúirt an tAire Airgeadais inné an mbeidh an scéim nua bunaithe ar cháin, ar dheontais nó ar iasachtaí nó ar chabhair de shórt eile. Dá bharr sin, tá éiginnteacht ann. Beidh moltaí an Aire Ealaíon, Oidhreachta, Gaeltachta agus Oileán os comhair an Aire Airgeadais agus má tá an tAire Stáit lánsásta go dtiocfar ar chomhaontú agus go mbeidh sé sin le léamh sa Bhille Airgeadais táim sásta glacadh leis. Ach nílim glacadh leis go ndúirt an tAire Airgeadais inné rud nach ndúirt sé.
Bhí an Teachta ag iarraidh go bhfógródh an tAire Airgeadais scéimeanna agus níor fhógair. Leagadh síos téarmaí tagartha do phróiseas. Tá sé ráite ag an Aire cé chomh fada is atá an próiseas imithe. Chomh maith leis sin, tá sé ráite aici go bhfuil sé báúil don rud ar fad. Ach go dtí go ndéanfaidh sé cinneadh ní féidir leis an Aire Airgeadais cinneadh a dhéanamh. Beidh an rud seo ar fad soiléir nuair a thiocfaidh muid chomh fada leis an mBille Airgeadais.
Agus níl aon imní ar an Aire Stáit.
Ní bhíonn imní ar an Aire Stáit riamh.
I do ráiteas, a Aire Stáit, dúirt tú "the savings have become available in 1998 due to difficulties in implementing schemes in the National Parks and Wildlife Services". What Parks and Services were involved?
I do not have the full details of the savings in front of me.
There is a problem with the term "savings" here. These are failures to complete the work programme. If I was in the Minister's chair, I would call them that. I do not recall savings arising very much when I was in the Department. It is cosmetic to describe them as savings.
Deputy Higgins had the other difficulty. He overspent.
I had.
Most of the savings relate to the SACs. Much of it comes from turf-cutting and compensation payments arising therefrom. That money was not spent as everyone knows and many welcomed the decision at the time to negotiate further because it is a very contentious issue. That is the main source of savings.
There were savings in my time which went from one island account in the Taoiseach's Department to another. I am glad the Minister of State was able to make good use of that for some of the islands.
I was disappointed to hear that the Tory Island project will not be completed in time. It was intended to last for a much shorter period. I recall when I sought additional money for bóithre áise that the people in the Department vigorously resisted using any savings — if we are to use that word — for the bóithre áise.
Unspent money, we shall call it.
It was a sacrilege to make that suggestion. What has changed now in the guidelines, that the Minster of State is able to come here and say that he has savings and can move certain amounts to Údarás na Gaeltachta and so on. Why are the officials not resisting this? What has changed?
The Minister and I have made certain decisions. One was to spend money on bóithre áise which was welcomed in the Gaeltacht. That is our decision and I have got full support and assistance of the officials to carry out that programme. A huge workload has been imposed on people and they have worked effectively and efficiently and with good grace.
I cannot speak about the problems the Chairman had but there has been a huge amount of work since the islands were transferred to our Department. There has been expanded funding for islands and for Gaeltacht schemes which has increased the workload.
The difference was that we did not regard the money that was voted for building piers on Tory Island as a contingency fund. When the piers are built it will be difficult to find a new cover for a contingency fund.
As Deputy Higgins is aware, the piers are being built by Roinn na Mara and that demands money. When I went in to the Department last year, one of the first things I was told by the officials was that due to things that happened before my time there would be an underspend on Tory Island in 1997.
This is a problem which overlaps with Deputy Carey's and Deputy Higgin's time in that Department. Roinn na Mara did not proceed with the project as speedily as was hoped and also, the project is now likely to cost more money and we have already made provision to complete it. Money has not been the problem.
Last year, the scéim na mbóithre áise money came because the programme on muiroibreacha did not proceed as speedily as expected. This year, money was set aside in the estimates for the bóithre áise. There were savings in various parts of the Departments not so much on the Tory Island project but on projects that were delayed, and I am looking to see if there is a quicker way of getting projects up and running. My problem has not been to hold them back but to beg people to get them started so that we could spend the money because there were very few projects on the shelf.
If we look at the Cork islands, we let them start £2 million worth of work as quickly as we could. Unfortunately, they have not proceeded as quickly as we would have liked. I am not blaming the county council there. They have done a gaisce since last April because there are all sorts of factors involved with muiroibreacha. Obviously, the more we can ensure that all the moneys allocated in any year are used, the better.
The Minster of State is saying something important and he has my support for his efforts to get the work done quickly. A question was asked about what was called savings in the National Parks and Wildlife Service. I contested the phrase "work savings" and said it was the uncompleted work programme. Will it be the practice to publish a year's work programme in this section?
When I was Minister I allocated £100,000 for improvements to the Eglington Canal and the waterways in my constituency. We visited the area in 1995 and 1996 and the money was allocated in 1997. I was recently told in a reply to a parliamentary question that Dúchas is considering the matter and intended to write to the Lough Corrib navigation trustees. Four years will have elapsed since the idea was first suggested to the time they are suggesting work might commence. I am on record, in common with the Minister of State, as paying tribute to this overworked and understaffed Department, but also to the people in the Office of Public Works who do sterling work. However, the long delay in the execution of projects is unsatisfactory.
It is similar to the Minister of State's point about reports on how to get piers started. Is it the intention as part of the strategic management initiative about which the Secretary General told the committee to do something as modest as publishing a work programme so people will know which works under voted moneys in a particular year will go ahead? We do not want to be told they are alleged savings when a work programme has not been completed. In future, I will call this uncompleted work.
In this case, the savings are clear.
How is it a saving? A saving is where something that was supposed to cost £1 million cost £0.5 million. That is a saving of £500,000. How is this a saving?
I understand that most Departments have traditionally referred to these matters as savings. The term "unspent money" is the same. It is money that has not been spent within the Department. It is also fair to say that most Departments try to spend as much of the money as possible with the best value in any one year. However, because we are working on a year on year basis rather than on the normal accountancy basis, if something does not fall within the calendar year, it cannot be carried forward. There are few exceptions to that.
In this case, there was a big issue in relation to turf cutting in the midlands. A decision was taken to defer that issue to allow more time to resolve it amicably between the various parties involved.
Perhaps I should withdraw my comments and apologise to the staff because the Minister and the Minister of State have held it up due to their involvement in a political dialogue with the people involved.
The Deputy could call it that, but political dialogue is not something of which one should be ashamed.
That is what it was called before the election.
The Minister said she would have it sorted out well in advance of next year's turf cutting season.
We are working on the issue. It is important that the entire ecological programme proceeds as speedily as possible. However, I have held the view from the beginning that no programme to protect ecology will succeed without the goodwill of landowners and participants. This case is obviously, for traditional reasons in Ireland, a very contentious issue. Sitting down and talking with people in an arrangement with which everybody agrees, in an effort to resolve this issue is the way to ensure the protection of these valuable areas in the long-term.
There have been a number of very contentious issues. We have been dealing recently with one about overgrazing with which we are trying to come to grips. We have taken steps which farmers now realise will be in everybody's interest in the long-term to try to resolve these issues. We will continue to work on that basis. A fair amount of time has been invested in meeting all the different people to try to get everybody on board.
I am glad the Minister of State has been converted to the way of dialogue. When he was in Opposition, he was not communicative about the two sides to the issue.
I was very communicative.
In an adversarial way which gave hope to people that there was a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. In terms of my constituency, I am disappointed that the scheme in the national park and the north Clare area was not implemented fully. For example, inspections did not take place to allow people to be paid, particularly at a time when farmers were doing very badly in that area. However, the savings have gone to Údarás na Gaeltachta to provide jobs.
Are the delays particularly in the building programmes due to bureaucracy or the lack of a workforce?
No. From the time one decides to build a pier, a long process must be undertaken. Deputy Carey set up the original islands fund. I understand he had to get some funds from other Departments for it and I pay tribute to him. Luckily, I have been able to expand the fund considerably. The problem is that when the system is cranked up and further demands are made in terms of marine works, etc, people with expertise are required to draw up the plans and make proposals. They must go through a long process.
As the Minister of State with responsibility for the islands, I was concerned about the issue of capacity. I have spoken to officials in the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources which has huge expertise in this area. An increasing number of county councils are employing marine engineers. We are considering the possibility that the marine engineering experience within county council could do the preparatory and design work on smaller works. They would also have the technical expertise of the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources available to them. More programmes could be moved forward in this way.
In the first 18 months of the islands programme, grants amounting to approximately £1.6 million have been released. When I came into the Department, £350,000 remained from last year which had not been earmarked for anything. This year, there was approximately £2.6 million. We did not have enough plans initially but we pushed everything forward as fast as we could, particularly the Cork islands project. Cork County Council had prepared plans under its own steam and we gave the go ahead because they were ready. Other things we would like to do cannot be done until all the necessary detailed work is completed.
The proposal regarding the work programme would be radical and revolutionary. People would know what works are projected for the next 12 months and what is contained in the following year's programme. Is that possible?
I do not foresee any major difficulty. We have discussed all these issues with Comhdháil Oileán na hÉireann.
I do not mean only in relation to the islands. The savings are across the general Vote relating to the National Parks and Wildlife Service. My points relates to the Office of Public Works for which the Department is now responsible. Does it agree a work programme for the year with the Secretary General? Is that published?
There are ongoing work programmes.
I am aware of that. My difficulty is not the ongoing work programmes. Some time ago people talked about transparency and accountability. We should know what is planned for the coming year. The Minister of State and I are elected representatives. I am also a former Minister. When money is allocated to a project and years later when it has not been spent on it, one is told that the relevant body is looking for additional information. This is unsatisfactory. In the case I mentioned, the phrase used was that it was hoped to have it in the 1999 programme. If there is a reason people cannot spend money within the year which will be accountable the following year, it should be taken out of the work programme. The work programme should include only things about which the Minister is prepared to answer questions.
I am more familiar with the parts of the Department for which I am directly responsible. We have programmes of things we want to do. However, we often find, for example, that local authorities who assured us something would be done have not done it at the end of the year and will give reasons things did not happen. We asked county councils, for example, to complete a few things within the financial year 1999 under the work programme we published last April, but they will not be done. We have been given good reasons for that.
There must be flexibility when planning work programmes. There must be a queue of projects so that if one falls out or is delayed by unforeseen circumstances, something else can take its place. As Minister of State, I have tried to be as open as possible about which projects are proceeding and which will not proceed.
Problems will be created if commitments are given that the work programme will be fulfilled as it is laid out. If something goes wrong — we all know things can go wrong — and another project is prioritised, one could find oneself in a situation similar to that in which I find myself on the Tory Island project where a suggestion was made that it was too fortuitous that it went slowly when I know it had nothing to do with that. I was told when I came into the Department that the Tory Island project was going slowly before the two Deputies here left the Department and, as a consequence, there were savings. The problem with giving a commitment that something will happen within a certain timeframe is that if it does not happen, accusations will be made that it was purposely held back. It is hard to win in such circumstances.
It helps that the Minister publishes a work programme and he is right about flexibility. However, the issue is not about flexibility but about whether that part of the Department in which these savings have been reported publishes an annual work programme. It is a reasonable question to ask. I will wait for an answer until we are discussing the next Estimates if necessary.
I presume it has a work programme.
I used to presume that too.
In the Department in which I worked a draft programme of what it hoped to do was published. Elements of that programme might not be achieved for whatever reason. That is probably what Deputy Michael Higgins is talking about.
Every Government worries that if a draft programme is published and something does not go ahead, it could be accused of sleight of hand when it is a genuine delay. Ministers and ex-Ministers know that things do not happen even with the best will in the world. We must strike a balance in this.
There are different cultures of accountability to timescales.
I can only speak for those for which I have day to day responsibility. I encourage things to be done as quickly as possible. However, even with the best will in the world, I set myself targets which are too ambitious, although they help to keep pressure on me to ensure things happen.
There seems to be an attitude about savings. We made strong requests about the bóithre áise and we were told about these savings. I am puzzled the officials were able to say that the Tory Island project was behind in May or June when these savings of £0.5 million materialised towards the end of the year.
They materialised long before the end of the year.
Why were we not told this was the case?
The expenditure figures show how much money was spent.
The instruction on the Tory Island project was to go as fast as possible. It is up to the Department of the Marine and Natural Resources to send in the accounts and look for the money. I do not know why I could get bóithre áise and you, Chairman, could not. The decision was mine as Minister.
It was mine too.
Perhaps there was a difficulty with the Department of Finance.
I thought language was the problem.
I have had no difficulty with the Minister for Finance on that issue. We must get sanction from the Department of Finance when there is no provision in the Estimates. I went into the Department with the firm conviction that this was one scheme the people of the Gaeltacht wanted badly. Many of them have great Irish and live in isolated places with poor roads. I took a decision and the Minister, Deputy de Valera, and the Minister for Finance fully supported me. We have spent in excess of £1 million this year to provide necessary infrastructural works. We hear a great deal about infrastructure in the west. Infrastructure for towns and villages is important but if one cannot travel to one's house in some reasonable comfort, there is no point having motorways the rest of the way.
I agree with the Minister of State that the people of the Gaeltacht need roads to their houses. The issue is not whether they need or are entitled to roads but whether this scheme is the best way of doing it. We will have another opportunity to look at this scheme. Much of the money mentioned by the Minister of State has gone on administration costs, which are huge.
There are no administrative costs.
What about the processing of applications? I am sure the Minister of State remembers all the questions he asked me about the administration of this scheme and the establishment of criteria when he was sa bhfreasúra.
The Deputy is mixing me up with the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Molloy.
I am not.
The Deputy is.
That would be a terrible tragedy because I know the difference between the two. I have forgotten the questions asked by Deputy Molloy but I remember those asked by the Minister of State.
My questions did not relate to administrative costs. We advertised for applications last year. The stiúrthóirí and stiúrthóirí cúnta examined the roads as part of their work. There has been no increase in the number of stiúrthóirí or stiúrthóirí cúnta. There has been a small increase in the number of staff in the Gaeltacht section of the Department in Furbo but we must remember they are handling an expanded scéim bóithre áise that had been stopped and the islands package. In terms of productivity it is taking time but because the staff carry the work, there is no direct administrative cost attached to the scheme.
A number of people ask for transcripts of these meetings. Would it be possible to get these transcripts sooner. It is possible to take down the Minister's statement a couple of hours later from the PC but a number of organisations are always interested in the Minister's replies.
It takes ten days at the moment.