Skip to main content
Normal View

Select Committee on Justice and Equality debate -
Wednesday, 17 May 2017

Business of Committee

We will now address the second substantive item for address by the select committee this morning, namely, the Coroners Bill and the issue of money messages. Members will recall our discussion last week about the Coroners Bill 2015 and the failure of the Government to provide the money message for the Bill. As Chairman, I undertook to take certain steps and I wish to update members now on the steps undertaken in the interim.

The first was to seek a meeting of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen through the offices of Deputy Jim Daly, who chairs the working group. I made this request. Deputy Daly and I did not have a meeting proper but we have since spoken. This was superseded by the second course of action, namely, to arrange a meeting directly with the Ceann Comhairle. This meeting took place last Wednesday. It was also attended by the former clerk to our committee, Gina Long, representing the Bills Office; Elaine Gunn, representing the Business Committee, I understand; and the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl. The upshot of this was that the Ceann Comhairle advised that he had corresponded on four Bills that had been presented for address by this committee - we knew he had done so because we were told after the event - and had sought an indication as to the money message being provided or not, as the case might be. Despite this fact, almost a full month later - as of last Thursday, 11 May, the date of 12 April was long past - there was no reply to the Ceann Comhairle's letter. I found this most extraordinary and the Ceann Comhairle concurs and intends taking up the matter. The upshot of the meeting was that the Ceann Comhairle has sought a meeting with An Taoiseach for this week to be attended by the Ceann Comhairle; by me, as Chairman of the justice committee, which is the raising committee; and Deputy Jim Daly, as the chair of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen. The letter was sent last Thursday. It was drafted in my presence to be despatched shortly after the conclusion of our meeting. I have no indication at present as to whether the meeting is being accommodated. I will make further inquiries.

Those were the actions I undertook to take at the committee's request. We have now brought the matter to a new plane. Rather than addressing it as a stand-alone committee and in isolation, it will now be addressed in conjunction with Deputy Jim Daly, as the Chair of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen, and the Ceann Comhairle on behalf of the Dáil and the system here. That meeting is to take place with An Taoiseach. As soon as we have that opportunity, we will be able to report back. I spoke with Deputy Jim Daly yesterday. We have agreed that, whatever the outcome of the meeting, we will convene a meeting of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen to brief all committee Chairmen on the outworkings and upshot of our meeting with the Taoiseach.

The other actions to be taken concerned Deputy Clare Daly and the Minister and an exploration of the Minister's letter to me and the committee regarding her willingness to facilitate us in the period running up to the summer recess. While my address was in broad brush strokes, Deputy Daly's was specific to her Bill, namely, the Coroners Bill, and I invite Deputy Daly to bring us up to date in this regard.

In fairness, the Minister convened a meeting with her officials last Thursday, which we attended. They expressed their intention to deal with this issue and expedite it before the summer. This is a big ask and a very tight schedule but we agreed to work together to try to deliver it and report back to the committee to seek its co-operation in that regard as well. In essence, the Minister undertook to ring me then, having made some investigation with the Office of the Attorney General and her own staff. Some work has been done on it but basically, what is being talked about is that the Department would draft a new stand-alone Bill dealing with the provisions surrounding maternal deaths, specifically mandatory inquests for maternal deaths. The Minister will go to Cabinet next week with a resolution. I do not understand what that means, but the drafting is under way and will continue. They do not expect this to take that long. It will be quite a short Bill with perhaps about eight provisions. The aim is that it would come before Cabinet the first week back after the recess, would be published that week and would reach Second Stage in the week of 21 June, Committee Stage the following week and Report Stage the week after. Then an attempt will be made to expedite it through the Seanad. That is a very tight schedule but they say they intend to work on it. There may be hiccups. I would be a little suspicious, not of the Minister but perhaps of the Department trying to restrict the definition of "maternal death". We might not be happy about that and it might throw a spanner in the works.

In fairness, the team has been made available to us. A member of the team has been liaising with staff in my office. The Minister undertook to ring me and she did so yesterday. She told me she had spoken to the Attorney General, and in response to my question as to whether the target of all Stages being passed by the summer was still achievable, her response was that it was but that everybody would have to be willing to engage. Can Committee and Report Stages be taken together?

That could only happen in the Dáil Chamber.

We may need to consider that. There is a real urgency to have the Bill passed before the summer recess. I believe the Tánaiste is committed to that but there is speculation that she may not be the Minister for Justice and Equality under the new Fine Gael leadership. We do not know what is happening in that regard. The point I am making is that we need to keep the pressure on the Department. In saying that, I am in no way being derogatory to the Minister. We need to keep the pressure on and, therefore, I would not fully abandon the proposal put forward last week.

Would Deputy Brophy like to hear Deputy O'Callaghan's contribution before he updates us on the matter?

Deputy Brophy might be able to tell us whether he will be the next Minister for Justice and Equality or whether the current incumbent will remain in place. Based on what has been said already, including by Deputy Clare Daly, progress has been made. I have no doubt that the Tánaiste wants to expedite the Bill but as we have seen in the past often that is not what happens. I think a stick as well as a carrot is appropriate but we do not have to make any decisions about that now. This select committee decides when to schedule legislation for Committee Stage. The decision in that regard is not one for the Chairman but the committee as whole. The proposals I put forward last week can be considered in due course. Hopefully, we will not have to go there and the Government will ensure the Coroners Bill, in its new guise, will get to Committee Stage here as quickly as possible. We need to put pressure on Government to do that. The idea I put forward last week, in terms of putting pressure on the Government, is still a good idea.

I have advised of the vexation that is very much in evidence in this committee. I believe it is reflected in other committees but the number of Private Members' Bills presented to this committee far exceeds the number of Bills presented to the other committees.

I will ignore all of the references to Ministers for justice etc. I agree with Deputy Clare Daly that as a committee we need to keep the pressure on the Department to deliver the Bill. The level of engagement thus far has been very positive. The Department, the Minister and the Government have set the target of the summer recess in regard to the passage of the Bill and I believe that as a committee, we should remain focused on achieving that target.

I remind members that the joint committee is meeting tomorrow in private session at 2 p.m. in committee room 4. I know that members are busy with other business so we will try to complete our business within an hour. The select committee will meet again next week, 24 May, at 9 a.m. to deal with the Parole Bill 2016, which was introduced by Deputy O'Callaghan. On 31 May, the joint committee will deal with two Government opt-in motions. No decision has been made yet regarding a meeting on 7 June.

The select committee adjourned at 12.45 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 24 May 2017.
Top
Share