This meeting has been convened to consider the motion re the annual report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2010. Copies of this report have been circulated to Members. I welcome the Minister for Defence, Deputy Shatter, and his officials to the meeting and I invite the Minister to make his opening statement.
Report on Service of Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2010: Motion
I congratulate Deputy Stanton on his appointment as Chairman. I understand that Deputy Joanna Tuffy has been appointed Vice Chairman.
As a former member, on and off, of this committee for very many years, I am very happy to have this opportunity to come before it. I perform a dual role. I am Minister for Justice and Equality as well. In my capacity as Minister for Defence, I am happy to report to the committee on the Defence Forces participation in United Nations missions in 2010. The report for 2010 was laid before the Dáil on 30 March 2011. The following motion has been placed on the Order Paper of Dáil Éireann:
That Dáil Éireann approves the report by the Minister for Defence regarding service by the Defence Forces with the United Nations in 2010, copies of which were laid before Dáil Éireann on 30 March 2011, in accordance with Section 13 of the Defence (Amendment) Act, 2006.
In commending the motion, I will shortly outline some of the key aspects of Ireland's involvement with the UN over the past couple of years. During 2010, I was on the Opposition benches and the year I am reporting on is that of my predecessors who occupied this position in the Department of Defence.
A central tenet of Irish foreign policy is support for the multilateral system of collective security represented by the United Nations. In this regard, Ireland has worked to uphold the primary role of the Security Council in the maintenance of international peace and security. This commitment has found expression in Ireland's long-standing tradition of participation in UN peacekeeping operations. Ireland has participated continuously in UN peacekeeping operations since 1958, a service which has comprised more than 60,000 individual tours of duty.
Participation in overseas peacekeeping missions is a key element of Ireland's foreign policy and has been an important dimension in meeting Ireland's international obligations as a member of the UN and the EU. Irish foreign policy is directed at supporting co-operative arrangements for collective security through the development of international organisations, especially the United Nations, and supporting effective international action in areas such as disarmament, peacekeeping, development and human rights. This approach continues to define Irish priorities in the UN system and Ireland remains willing to play a full role in contributing to the security of Europe and the world.
During 2010 the Defence Forces continued to make a major contribution to international peacekeeping through their participation in UN led and UN authorised missions. Personnel were deployed on 12 different missions throughout the world, in Africa, Europe, the Middle East and Asia.
Our main missions in the year under review were the United Nations mission in the Central African Republic and Chad, known as MINURCAT, with approximately 400 personnel, the NATO-led international security presence in Kosovo, KFOR, with approximately 230 personnel, and the EU-led Operation ALTHEA in Bosnia-Herzegovina with 43 personnel.
Our largest overseas commitment during 2010 was to MINURCAT as part of a joint Irish-Finnish battalion. During their service in Chad, Irish troops were responsible for protecting and securing the area around the refugee and IDP camps to ensure that the refugees could live free from fear of attack and that humanitarian aid was safely distributed to them.
Unfortunately, early in 2010, the Government of Chad asked the UN to withdraw the military component of MINURCAT. Lengthy discussions followed between the UN and the Chadian authorities. This situation created significant uncertainty for all troop contributors, including Ireland, particularly given the imminent onset of the rainy season, which presented logistical difficulties in repatriating personnel and equipment. Operating in close co-ordination with the Finnish authorities, some assurances were jointly sought from the UN regarding the future of the mission and the nature of its mandate. However, it was not possible to get that clarity, and in May 2010 the Irish battalion was withdrawn from the mission. A small number of Irish personnel including Brigadier General Gerald Aherne, deputy force commander, were retained at the force headquarters in support of the mission until December 2010 when the mission closed.
The economic challenges facing the country over the past couple of years have resulted in the Government deciding to downsize the Defence Forces commitments to overseas peace support operations in Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina. During 2010, the drawdown of the Irish contingent, some 230 personnel, from the NATO-led international security presence in Kosovo, KFOR, took place between April and October in the context of a phased drawdown of forces from KFOR generally. Some 12 Defence Forces personnel are being retained at KFOR headquarters in support of the mission.
The drawdown of the Defence Forces contingent serving with the EU-led Operation ALTHEA in Bosnia-Herzegovina was scheduled to occur in July 2010. However, this withdrawal was deferred at the request of the operation commander due to the delay in the transition of the mission from an executive military operation to a training and support mission and having regard to the unexpected withdrawal of the Defence Forces contingent from MINURCAT in May 2010.
The drawdown of Defence Forces contingent, from 44 currently to approximately seven personnel, is now scheduled for July 2011.
Ireland is currently contributing some 218 Defence Forces personnel to 11 different missions throughout the world. Also, about 150 additional personnel have been on standby for rapid deployment as our contribution to the Nordic battle group for the past six months and are due to be stood down at the end of this month. The Defence Forces are now planning and preparing for Ireland's participation in the Austrian-German battle group, which will be on standby for the second six months of 2012.
Since the unexpected and unplanned withdrawal of an Irish contingent from the UN mission in Chad in May 2010, the Department and the Defence Forces had been examining all available options in terms of a deployment for the Defence Forces. On 24 November 2010, the UN invited the Government of Ireland to contribute a mechanised infantry battalion to United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, known as UNIFIL, to be deployed in the first half of 2011. In April of this year, Dáil Éireann approved the despatch of a Defence Forces contingent of some 440 personnel for service with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL. An advance party of the 104th infantry battalion deployed to theatre on 30 May 2011. The main body of the battalion is due to deploy to Lebanon within the coming week - on the 23 and 27 June 2011.
I am sure that the committee will join me in wishing all members of the 104th infantry battalion every success and safety as they take up duty with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, within the coming week. We must be conscious that they are going to a part of the world that is volatile and playing a very important peacekeeping role.
Once the Defence Forces fully deploy to UNIFIL, it is expected that our total overseas deployment at that stage will amount to approximately 540. This will be a very significant contribution in the context of the reduced resources available and reflects the Government's continued commitment to international peacekeeping and to the ongoing development of the Defence Forces. Relative to our size and our available resources and capabilities, both financial and military, Ireland is proportionately a very large peacekeeping contributor within the international community.
It is important for Ireland to continue to build on our long tradition of service to the founding principles of the United Nations by making practical commitments of personnel to peace support operations. I wish to assure the committee that, notwithstanding the economic challenges we are facing, the Government is committed to ensuring that the Defence Forces continue to contribute in a meaningful way to overseas operations. However, our contributions will be practical and sustainable within the reduced resources available for defence.
The Government and I place high importance on the valuable work being done by members of the Defence Forces throughout the world. I fully recognise the importance of operational experience in peace support operations for the ongoing development of the Defence Forces. Overseas operations enable the Defence Forces to exercise all the capabilities it has available to it. I believe that this practical experience is also essential to the development of soldiers and young officers and, indeed, to the ongoing modernisation of the Defence Forces and its overall effectiveness.
Our involvement in peace support missions has greatly enhanced the professional capacity and capability of the Defence Forces. This has, in turn, increased our value to the United Nations. The appointment of Irish officers, such as, Lieutenant-General Pat Nash as operation commander EUFOR Tchad/RCA, and Brigadier General Gerald Aherne, as deputy force commander MINURCAT, is another indication of the high regard in which Irish personnel are held internationally.
Since taking up my appointment as Minister for Defence, I have not yet had an opportunity to visit Irish troops serving on overseas missions. However, this is something that I hope to rectify by visiting our troops in UNIFIL in Southern Lebanon later this year. I am looking forward to witnessing at first hand the dedication and professionalism of our military personnel serving overseas.
In conclusion, I acknowledge the significant demands placed on personnel who serve overseas and on their families. Without their loyal and continuing support, Ireland's strong tradition of service overseas, under the auspices of the United Nations, would not be possible. Their committed and dedicated service in overseas missions reflects well not only on the Defence Forces, but on the nation as a whole and contributes to the excellent reputation, which Ireland holds among peacekeepers throughout the world.
I welcome the Minister back to the committee in his new role and I wish him every success in his post. I endorse everything the Minister said. I wish those deploying to Lebanon next month, health and success in their role. I acknowledge the Minister's comments on the families of those who are being deployed to Lebanon and those who serve in the Defence Forces. We place a great burden on them equally as those who serve their country. The distance involved is particularly tough on young families.
I commend the Minister on his decision to appoint an inquiry team into the events that took place in Lebanon some 30 years ago. I hope that inquiry can be brought to fruition as expeditiously as possible without damaging its work. Following the completion of that inquiry, I would welcome the opportunity to discuss its findings. I commend the Minister on bringing the inquiry forward
Our Defence Forces have been served incredibly well by foreign participation, going back right through the decades. Given the challenges they faced during the Troubles on this island, the experience of working with equipment abroad was significantly instrumental in their role of getting us to the point we are at today. They have flown the flag in such a powerful way for Ireland that we have been able to use the goodwill that members of Óglaigh na hÉireann have achieved in so many other ways beyond their remit. I commend the Defence Forces on their work in 2010 and send them every good wish as they re-engage in Lebanon. I think it would be good if the Minister were to take the opportunity to visit them once they settle back into Lebanon.
I welcome the Minister to this committee. I want to use this opportunity to commend the Irish troops on their UN missions. The emphasis was on peacekeeping and humanitarian aid. The Minister referred to the Defence Forces' record of 60,000 tours of duty, which is fantastic.
I wish to ask three short questions. The Minister referred to the founding principles of the United Nations, which for many means peace and peacekeeping. How does this fit with the NATO bombing of civilians in Libya and the slaughter of children in recent days? My other concern relates to the Minister's reference to the Nordic battle group in which 150 Irish personnel are to be deployed. I have major concerns about that phrase "battle group" because I want Irish troops to be involved in peacekeeping and protecting civilians and doing humanitarian missions. Does the Minister accept that the UN principle that one cannot build peace on aggression from countries such as the US, Britain or France? Does he agree that the way to build peace is to try to resolve the issues on the ground and use the United Nations troops for defence and protection of civilians in their own communities? Men, women and children have been killed in villages in Afghanistan where there were so-called military operations but the casualties were generally civilians. Are we moving from the UN principle of looking after people and being a group of nations to guarantee justice and peace for people on the ground?
As agreed yesterday, we will revert to the Minister for his response.
My apologies. I did not know what was agreed.
I could deal with the questions from two Members at a time. I sincerely thank Deputy Dara Calleary for his comments. When one reflects on the contribution that Ireland has made to peacekeeping in some, on occasions, very rough parts of the world and considers the size of the country and the number in our Defence Forces, an extraordinary contribution has been made. There is absolutely no doubt that it reflects well on Ireland. That contribution has been much appreciated in the countries where we have had Irish troops. We can be very proud of the record of our troops abroad, including those who served in southern Lebanon in the past as part of the UNIFIL force. They have behaved extraordinarily well and performed a very important function.
With regard to the inquiry into the tragic death of three soldiers some years ago, new information became available to me and I felt it important to revisit that tragic event. When that inquiry is complete it will be published. I think it correct that the report, when published, should come before this committee and that members should have an opportunity to consider it and raise any questions that arise out of it. There is no difficulty with that. The report is expected no later than the end of the summer. I expect it will be an item on the agenda of this committee after the summer break. I am, of course, not privy to the work of the inquiry. It is completely independent. However, we hope we will have a report before September or shortly thereafter. We will wait and see what occurs in that.
I appreciate the support Deputy Finian McGrath expressed for the Defence Forces. He raised a number of issues. The founding and current principles of the United Nations are, of course, of crucial importance. They are about addressing issues of peacekeeping and maintaining peace. The world we live in is an extremely complex place. It was quite clear that the Libyan leader, Colonel Gadaffi, had taken it on himself to shoot at his own people and had created huge difficulties in a part of Libya that, without the assistance given by outside forces, would have been taken over again by him. The local population there were at serious risk. There are circumstances in which interventions are appropriate.
The world we live in has a number of people who are prepared to maintain their power by using the barrel of a gun or tanks or bombing their own people. It is a more complex world than one where a problem can be talked about. The issue of Libya was addressed by the international community. I can only say, on behalf of the Government, that I hope the difficulties there rapidly come to an end, that a democratic government is put in place and that no more lives are lost in that conflict.
Deputy McGrath cited an old saying that one cannot build peace on aggression by the United States, the United Kingdom and France. One cannot build peace by being aggressive but one cannot save lives by turning away from people who are at serious risk. In difficult parts of the world one cannot solve problems that are created by those who are prepared to bomb and kill even their own people. At present, an attempt is being made at United Nations level to bring about a resolution of the difficulties in Syria. President Assad seems to be impervious to what is being said by the international community and is now terrorising his own population. In a perfect world that would not happen. We live in a complex world.
One does not bomb civilians.
I always find it difficult to understand why some Deputies or parties always perceive that the enemies are western democracies that should never intervene in any circumstances. The United States has been criticised for not intervening in certain areas. On other occasions the United States has been criticised for intervening. The mission in Afghanistan is a UN mission. Tragically and sadly, innocent lives have been lost. There is no doubt about that. Tragically and sadly, many more innocent lives have been lost as a result of the conduct of the Taliban, who have turned their guns on their own people. For some reason, there are individuals in Ireland who are never critical of fundamentalist groups who are quite happy to cause death and destruction to their fellow country people.
That is a distortion. UN peacekeepers stop violence.
They are extraordinarily at ease with criticising the United States. I remind Deputies that this country would not have had a successful peace process without the assistance of the United States. It is reasonable to reflect occasionally on the fact that not everything the United States does is right nor do we agree with everything the United States does, but it has given this country a substantial amount of assistance and done many things in a global context to resolve difficulties in circumstances where others have not been able to provide assistance.
I congratulate you, Chairman, on your election and Deputy Tuffy on her election as Vice Chairman. I also welcome the Minister to the committee.
The recent debate in the Dáil on the UNIFIL mission indicated the high regard in which the Defence Forces personnel are held by all parties in the House. That is a testament to their behaviour on peacekeeping missions. Not only are they held in high regard in these Houses and throughout Ireland but also in the countries where they have served. I join the Minister in wishing the very best to the troops who are heading to Lebanon next week. I hope they all come back safely.
Unfortunately, that is not always the case. There have been more than 80 deaths among Defence Forces personnel since 1958. It is essential that we scrutinise the missions to which we give clearance. That is why the triple lock mechanism is a vital component. During the debate in the House I was pleased to hear the Minister's commitment to maintaining it. It is essential.
My first question relates to the deployment to Chad, which has now ceased, and the use of Lariam as an anti-malaria drug among Defence Forces personnel. I see from the transcripts of this committee's predecessor in the previous Dáil that the matter was raised at that committee. I raised it myself in the Dáil last April. At that time, when the Minister answered my question he outlined the reasons we use it and the precautions we take in using it. However, since then I have spoken to the mother of one soldier who has now left the Defence Forces but is still suffering from the side-effects of Lariam. We need to investigate this matter more closely. In his reply to my question the Minister said three people had serious symptoms which may have been related to Lariam and seven with less serious symptoms. All of these were reported to the Irish Medicines Board.
Is this something this committee could look at in future? A group of ex-soldiers and their families have set up a support group for former members of the Defence Forces who are suffering from the effects of Lariam. Could we invite them to the committee to listen to what they are saying? We should also get a report from the Irish Medicines Board of the cases that were sent to it by the Minister. Does the Minister have an update on the use of Lariam? We are no longer using it in Chad because we do not have personnel there. However, we should look into this because we have a responsibility to our soldiers not only to ensure that they are fully equipped and trained going out but also to ensure that they receive the best medical attention when they come home.
My second question relates to Afghanistan. According to the report, seven members of the Defence Forces are based in Kabul and their deployment is reviewed and approved on an annual basis at the beginning of March. Did this take place prior to the general election or will a motion come in the House before the end of the year? According to media reports, President Obama is due to make a significant statement tonight on the future role of the US in Afghanistan. When will the review take place? Has the Minister given consideration to whether-----
I read the report.
Does the Minister hope to bring home Defence Forces personnel this year or will their deployment be renewed for another 12 months?
I omitted one issue raised by Deputy McGrath. I appreciate his comments about the troops deployed in Lebanon who play an important role. They have been highly trained and are fully and properly resourced for the trip. We all wish them well and I very much look forward to visiting them. I visited Lebanon in 2001 as part of a delegation of this committee. Perhaps the committee might consider doing something similar, as the troops will be there for some time. It would be informative for committee members and it would be a morale booster and a show of support for the troops out there.
With regard to the different issues raised by Deputy O'Brien, Lariam was approved by the Irish Medicines Board as the correct and appropriate drug to deal with the difficulties of malaria in Chad and it had been used previously. I am advised that the Defence Forces carry out careful medical checks on all members who may have to use Lariam in the context of a mission. That was done for the Chad mission. I am aware of reports that a small number of members of the Defence Forces have experienced adverse consequences of the use of Lariam. I met two individuals in my Department who described their circumstances in that regard because I am anxious to ensure that any issue that needs to be addressed is properly addressed. The medical advice remains that if there is another mission during which malaria of a particular type is a difficulty, Lariam is the best choice drug to use provided the proper checks are undertaken. However, this is under ongoing review and the issue of individuals who alleged they have been adversely affected is under consideration in the Department. I do not want to say anymore than that.
The Deputy also raised the issue of Afghanistan in the context of the retention of our small group of seven members there. That matter will come before Government shortly. We will make a decision on that and bring any motion that may be necessary to the Dáil or provide the committee with any information required. I am open to correction by my officials but a motion in the House is not required to allow them to remain in Afghanistan because they are part of a small contingent. The committee will be informed in this regard.
Their work in the country has been important. They have assisted in administration and in teaching local soldiers how to deal with improvised explosive devices, IEDs. There is not a more important peacekeeping issue. Sadly, due to the experiences on this island, our Defence Forces have substantial experience in neutralising IEDs and it is of assistance to those engaged in peacekeeping and trying to facilitate a sustained form of democracy that those skills are used and lives are saved. That is the context for the military element of their function.
Deputy McGrath does not like the sound of battle groups. This term is used among the Defence Forces. The role of battle groups at EU level is peacekeeping and dealing with major emergencies that might arise. They are not about to declare war on anyone, invade anywhere or do anything that could be described in the Deputy's terms as being aggressive. However, it is important that we are seen at European level to be available participate in conjunction with our European partners should a major emergency arise or should there be a peacekeeping mission that would require the assistance of the Union. Battle groups give our troops an opportunity to engage with other troops, to test their own capacities and to be sufficiently skilled to be of value should a situation occur to which we can make a contribution.
I congratulate the Chairman on his appointment and I thank everybody for their support for me as Vice Chairman. I also congratulate the Minister on his appointment. He has a heavy workload. Justice and equality are large enough briefs without incorporating the Department of Defence into his Department. I wish him well in his work.
I also commend the work of Irish troops. Their work is important and peacekeeping enhances our reputation aboard, as well as being a worthwhile exercise. The Minister referred to economic challenges. Is resourcing of our troops for peacekeeping missions an issue? Have there been cutbacks, for example, in equipment?
When the triple lock mechanism has come up in debates, for example, on the Lisbon treaty referendum, it has provided a great example of how we exercise our sovereignty through our Parliament. The public needs to be better educated about how this mechanism works. Whenever an EU referendum is held, people are afraid that they might be conscripted and have to fight in wars and so on. It is important to witness the triple lock in action. Will decisions be made involving this mechanism in the future? For instance, the Minister mentioned the Austrian-German battle group.
I congratulate the Deputy on her appointment as Vice Chairman. Despite the economic challenges, there is no issue with resourcing our troops. I am assured that they are fully and properly resourced. The Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have been careful in the way they have managed their finances in recent years. Capital realised from the sale of property that the Defence Forces did not require has been utilised in ensuring that the Defence Forces have the best possible equipment available to them. The Defence Forces going to Lebanon have the best possible equipment available to them. I am assured by the Chief of Staff that there is no issue of any description in that area. Our view is that we will maintain that as a position. We cannot send troops abroad on peacekeeping duties in circumstances in which equipment they require is denied to them for economic reasons. That would be a major folly and it is not something to which I would wish to be party.
In the context of what the Deputy says, it is important that if there is a major deployment of troops it is not simply a Government decision but that it is a matter that comes before the Dáil and Members will have an opportunity to participate in a debate on the issue, and that the Minister is available in the Dáil to address any questions or issues that arise. As far as I am concerned that will remain the position. If we are going to deploy troops abroad in significant numbers it is a matter that should be brought before the Dáil and Members on all sides should have an opportunity to contribute. It also means that it can be seen by our troops such as those going to Lebanon that they have support on all sides, that it is not a party-political issue, that we recognise the value of the work they are undertaking and its importance and that the entire Parliament of the State is behind them. That is a very useful signal to send and it is right that when they return home we acknowledge the work they have done and their achievements. On occasion they are put into difficult circumstances which have been historically managed very professionally. I have no doubt that will continue to be the case.
I wish the Chairman and Deputy Tuffy well in their new appointments. I wish the Minister the very best of luck. I have no doubt he will do an excellent job in the next few years. I regret that Deputy Finian McGrath fell at the first hurdle after our commitment yesterday to respect the question. At least he was true to form. Over a period we will mould him in our own way and likeness.
No, the Deputy will not. My job is to keep an eye on you guys.
I join with the Deputies who welcomed the inquiry into the deaths of Corporal Heneghan, Private Walsh and Private Armstrong. I saw the reports but I had not been aware that there had been a request for an inquiry in the past. That is welcome. I knew the three of them well. I served in Lebanon with Corporal Fintan Heneghan from Ballinrobe. I also served in the 28th Battalion with Private Mannix Armstrong and Private Walsh. Their deaths were most tragic. I would welcome light being shed on the deaths if it would help to alleviate the pain and suffering of their families. I commend the Minister. The inquiry had obviously been quietly requested by the families for some time. I am pleased the Minister has brought it to the fore.
An issue which is not related but often plays on my mind is the murder of Private Kelly and Garda recruit Sheehan in Ballinamore in 1983. No one was ever brought to justice for those deaths during the Don Tidey kidnapping. I would welcome it if the Minister could re-examine to case to shed light on it. A motion was taken during the Queen's visit seeking an inquiry into the Monaghan bombings, with which I totally agree. The information should be made available. There may be parties in this House that could help with an inquiry into the murders of Private Kelly and Garda Sheehan. I would like to see movement in that regard.
This country has been part of the Nordic battle group, a British term that unfortunately became adopted in European parlance. What is the reason for the move to an Austrian-German battle group? We were always tied to the Nordic countries. Are there cost implications from having to retrain and familiarise ourselves with a different grouping?
I have a different view on the triple lock. Unlike Deputy Tuffy, whose views I highly respect, I see the triple lock as an indication that we have a lack of sovereignty because we permit the permanent members of the Security Council to have a veto on our foreign policy. While I do not necessarily expect the Minister to lead a debate on the issue during his tenure, it would be beneficial to this country as a whole if he facilitated a debate on the issue. I fully advocate that any mission in which this country participates meets the fundamental principles of the UN and the Charter of Fundamental Rights and that it would have the unanimous support of both Houses of the Oireachtas. There is something basically flawed in the notion that although our nation is almost 100 years in existence, we would allow the United States, China, Russia or any of the five permanent members to have a veto on our foreign policy. I take a different approach. That leads me to another issue on which the Minister perhaps has a view, namely, the reform of the UN that is required such as the five permanent members having a veto, and the list of those members. Time has moved on. There is a global requirement for change.
The Minister mentioned he would visit the troops in Lebanon in the near future. I wish them well. He was there on a previous visit. I note that the travel fund for the committee will be limited. It is important that committee members go on visits, be it to Lebanon or wherever. I accept it is not the convention but perhaps as a member of the Government of reform the Minister could include a few committee members as part of his entourage which could reduce the costs. I will leave the matter in the hands of the Minister and the Chairman. I speak for my colleagues on that last point.
Could I surprise the Deputy? I thank Deputy Timmins for his good wishes. It is important that members of the committee have an opportunity to visit Lebanon. I would like to think, subject to financial constraints, that we might deal with matters somewhat differently than in the past. There is much to be said for the possibility that perhaps one or two or a small number of committee members either visit Lebanon themselves based on the committee's resources or that it would prove possible on an occasion when I visit, whether it is this visit or a future visit, that I would be accompanied by members of the committee. Personally, I have no difficulty of any description with that happening.
It has always been something of a mystery to me in previous years why that did not happen. I suspect it was often more about Ministers wanting personal publicity out of a trip than for any other valid reason. On occasion, as a member of Government one must travel as such and carry out certain duties but I will examine the possibility of the Chairman or other members of the committee accompanying me when I make a trip to visit Irish troops in the future, be it to Lebanon or if we engage in other peacekeeping missions elsewhere. That should not constrain the committee from itself visiting independently of the Minister. I can understand there are reasons members of the committee would want to visit independent of the Minister. I am conscious that in other European Union countries and indeed in Deputy McGrath's favourite country, the United States, it is not unusual that visits-----
I just disagree with its foreign policy.
-----of Presidents, Senators or Ministers are accompanied by members of the relevant parliamentary or congressional committees. That is something I intend to discuss with the Chairman. We will look at the detail of the proposal and see whether we can advance matters. It would be an unfortunate consequence of the financial cutbacks, for example, if members of this committee dealing with defence issues were unable to be resourced to occasionally visit outside this country. It is an issue I wish to constructively examine.
As to why we are now in the Austrian-German battle group, I understand that the previous Government made decisions that we would participate in two different battle groups. The Nordic battle group is concluding and the Austrian-German battle group is the next battle group with which we could compatibly participate. It is no more mysterious than that. It is all about peacekeeping, peace maintenance and dealing with emergencies should they arise.
I listened with interest to what Deputy Timmins said about Private Kelly and Garda recruit Sheehan. I should make something of a declaration of interest in that Mr. Don Tidey and his wife are personal friends of my wife and me. I would dearly love to see those who were responsible for the two tragic deaths that occurred, mentioned by Deputy Timmins, being brought to justice. It is a matter for the Garda Commissioner. It is not a matter for the Minister for Defence or even me wearing my hat as the Minister for Justice and Equality. As far as I know the Garda has done what it can in this area. In so far as there are any individuals who have any information they can supply to the Garda that would facilitate these matters being further investigated I would encourage them to make that information available. I can say no more about the issue but I am intimately aware of that event and its impact. The bravery of Mr. Tidey in dealing with the consequences of that event and getting on with his life is rarely publicly acknowledged, and it is right to do so. That is coming from someone who knows him well.
Deputy Timmins raised the issue of the triple lock mechanism. I can fully appreciate and have expressed some concerns in the past that we have a somewhat artificial view of it. If we believed there was trouble in some part of the world that would seriously benefit from a peacekeeping mission and we wanted to engage in peacekeeping and if, for example, one of the permanent members of the Security Council vetoed a peacekeeping mission because they had a national interest in that area - it might be because they exploiting, for example, minerals of some description in an area - while ensuring that we do not engage unless the United Nations sanctions something, the triple lock mechanism could be regarded as impacting on sovereignty and preventing us engaging in peacekeeping. I understand that those who advocate the triple lock mechanism, and it is part of our law, were anxious to ensure that we did not engage in military missions in which we attacked or invaded a country, but we must have a sophisticated discussion on this issue. As I frequently say, we should never dispatch large contingents of troops anywhere without the Dáil sanctioning it-----
-----but I have a concern, in circumstances where we might usefully engage in a genuine peacekeeping mission, that because of the artificial construct of the permanent Security Council and the vested interests of the states that comprise that council, they could act as a block to our doing something that may be fully supported by everyone on both sides of the House. There is need for a constructive and unemotional debate on that and that no one is accusing anyone of trying to send Irish troops off to war. That issue might be usefully debated and discussed in a manner that would ensure we continue to do our business in this area in a way that ensures that our international engagements are of a peacekeeping and assistance nature when emergencies occur but in which we are not unnecessarily prevented from genuinely participating in something in the future.
As Deputies may be aware, the Defence White Paper published in 2001 is now more than ten years old. We need a new White Paper to be published and I have suggested within my Department that we might at an early stage first publish a Green Paper to allow members of this committee and other Deputies, if they wish, to participate in a debate on the final construction of the White Paper. That might provide a vehicle for a considered and careful debate on these sorts of issues in a manner in which no one felt the government of the day was trying to dragoon anyone down a particular pathway. I hope that before the end of this year we will have a Green Paper and I look forward to this committee participating in a debate on it. We might generate some public debate around it before we finalise a White Paper and the contribution of this committee to the final form of the White Paper would be very much valued.
Thank you, Minister. I add my best wishes to the members of the 104th infantry battalion who will deploy to Lebanon shortly and, on behalf of all members of the committee, wish it a safe and successful mission. I recognise the importance of overseas service for the members. They value it and use it as a morale booster as well as for training. This mission is timely and welcome.
I was interested in what the Minister said regarding visiting the troops. I am aware of the importance of that to them. We will enter into discussions with the Minister to determine the most effective way of doing that and keep in contact with him on it.