I welcome the Minister for Defence, Deputy Michael Smith; the Secretary General of the Department of Defence, Mr. David O'Callaghan, and their officials. The purpose of this meeting is to consider the Estimates falling within the remit of the Department of Defence, namely, Vote 36 — Defence, and Vote 37 — Army Pensions, for the year ending 31 December 2004. I invite the Minister to make his opening statement.
Vote 37 — Army Pensions.
Is breá an rud é go bhfuil an chaoi agam teacht os comhair an choiste arís, don dara uair i gceann seachtaine amháin.
The amount of gross expenditure provided for in Votes 36 and 37 comes to approximately €900 million, which represents a significant proportion of Exchequer funds and an overall increase of 5% on expenditure for 2003. About three quarters of the total expenditure is accounted for by the pay, allowances and pensions of members of the Defence Forces and the wages of civilians employed with the Defence Forces and the Department's civil servants. The defence organisation has a manpower level of almost 12,000, comprising 10,500 in the Permanent Defence Force, almost 1,000 civilian employees and approximately 450 full-time and part-time civil servants. There are over 13,900 members of the Reserve Defence Force.
The select committee is aware that there has been an unprecedented level of expenditure on equipment and infrastructure for the Defence Forces in recent years. This was made possible by the Government's decision that pay savings arising from the reorganisation of the Defence Forces set out in the White Paper of 2000, with proceeds from the sale of surplus properties, would be reallocated for investment in modern equipment and facilities. The requirement to exercise prudence in the level of public spending means that the funds available to the Department are not as substantial as we might wish. This is also the case in other Departments. I am satisfied, however, that we can continue to maintain a reasonable level of investment in new equipment and infrastructure in 2004 and beyond by managing our resources carefully and prioritising our expenditure programmes.
Over €174 million was spent on the capital investment programme for the upgrade of barracks, accommodation and other facilities between 1997 and the end of 2003. Expenditure on non-capital maintenance works amounted to €61 million during the same period. The results of this expenditure are to be seen in many parts of the country. This year's Estimate for the Department of Defence includes a further €19 million for capital work and €11 million for maintenance works. Major projects completed in 2003 include a combined vehicle workshop at the Curragh, Coolmoney Camp, McKee Barracks, Dún Uí Mhaoilíosa and Custume Barracks, Athlone. Developments are in progress at the naval base, the Curragh and Custume Barracks. I will not delay the committee by giving details of the moneys involved.
Members have copies of the Minister's speech.
The Government's policy is that the Defence Forces should be fully equipped to undertake the duties assigned to them at home and overseas. Significant progress has been made in recent years with the acquisition of modern equipment for the Army, the Air Corps and the Naval Service. This year will see the delivery of 25 additional armoured personnel carriers from Mowag of Switzerland. The Defence Forces will then have 65 Mowag armoured personnel carriers. The initial contract for 40 armoured personnel carriers, the delivery of which was completed by March 2002, was valued at €51 million, inclusive of VAT. The value of the additional contract is some €33 million, inclusive of VAT. Payments will be spread between 2002 and 2005. Total expenditure on armoured personnel carriers will be €84 million. A total of 48 armoured personnel carriers have been delivered and the remaining 17 are due by October 2004. Six armoured personnel carriers are deployed in Kosovo and 22 in Liberia. I have been advised by the military authorities that the vehicles have worked well in the varied overseas environments.
Another significant contract relates to the acquisition of the Javelin missile system from the US firm Raytheon-Lockheed Martin at a cost of €13 million. The acquisition will give Defence Forces personnel an effective anti-armour capability while on peace support operations. The system will replace the Milan system. Some items under the contract have been delivered recently to allow for the training of personnel. The main delivery is scheduled for 2005. Ten artillery ground surveillance radars have been purchased from Thales Defence in England at a cost of €3.8 million. The acquisition of light tactical vehicles for the Defence Forces will be considered in the light of the ongoing availability of resources.
Equipment is available to the Defence Forces for monitoring and protecting its members in dealing with nuclear, biological or chemical threats that may be identified. The requirement for additional nuclear, biological or chemical equipment is kept under review by the director of operations and the director of ordnance. A programme for the purchase of nuclear, biological or chemical equipment is ongoing and the necessary equipment is purchased expeditiously to meet changing requirements. The Defence Forces hold an extensive range of modern nuclear, biological or chemical equipment to meet their requirements. Some 8,000 new nuclear, biological or chemical suits have been acquired and the Defence Forces have a sufficient stock of respirators for each soldier. They have 98 of the most technologically up-to-date chemical agent monitors and Defence Forces personnel are being trained in their operation. Other Defence Forces equipment includes biological agent detector and screening kits, group decontamination equipment and personal decontamination equipment.
The main priority for the Air Corps has been the purchase of eight turbo propeller aircraft to replace the Marchetti aircraft in pilot training. The aircraft will allow for the continued training of young cadets to the highest standard and represent a realistic response to the needs of the Air Corps. The new aircraft is the Pilatus PC-9M manufactured by Pilatus Aircraft Limited in Switzerland. The cost of the eight aircraft is approximately €60 million. The first three aircraft have been delivered and the remaining five are expected during the summer. While the aircraft are being obtained primarily for pilot training, they will be capable of being armed and as such will have a limited defensive capability. As I informed the committee recently, one of the new aircraft is in Austria for weapon systems certification testing which should be completed by July. The certification of one aircraft will cover all eight aircraft.
I have announced a process of replacing the ageing fleet of Air Corps helicopters. Following an examination of the relevant issues, specifications have been prepared for light utility helicopters. A competition for the supply of up to six aircraft will be advertised shortly in the official journal of the European Union. The acquisition of the helicopters will enable the Air Corps to continue to meet its commitments to the Defence Forces and the community.
A significant amount of the funding allocated in recent years for investment in new buildings and equipment comprises moneys provided by the Government in anticipation of property sales, the net proceeds from which went directly to the Exchequer as they were realised. Almost €60 million was raised through such sales between 2000 and 2003. The main sales involved were 97 acres at Murphy Barracks, Ballincollig, County Cork for €42 million and the sale of Devoy Barracks, Naas, County Kildare for €9.2 million. The sale of Clancy Barracks, Islandbridge for €25.4 million was completed earlier this year. As an exceptional measure, the proceeds from that sale are included in the appropriations-in-aid for this year's Defence Estimate. It is expected that other sales this year will generate an additional income of almost €8 million.
On 1 July 2003 the Government decided that lands at Gormanston Camp, County Meath and Magee Barracks, County Kildare would be among State lands released under the Sustaining Progress affordable housing initiative. The Government decided in December 2003 that lands at the Camp Field, Collins Barracks, Cork and St. Bricin's Hospital, Dublin would be made available for the same purpose. It is intended that the initiative will be targeted at those who in the past would have expected to purchase a house from their own resources but now find that they are unable to do so in the current market. The modalities regarding the transfer of the properties are under active consideration in consultation with the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the lead Department for the development of the affordable housing initiative.
The major progress made in terms of equipment and infrastructure is just part of the picture. I agree with the vision, outlined in the White Paper, that the Defence Forces should have the best possible organisation and personnel development plans. They should continue to offer rewarding and challenging careers. We have made a great deal of progress in respect of organisation but more remains to be done. The new organisation and management structures in the Naval Service and the Air Corps created in recent years are working very well. Our immediate organisational priority is to develop an organisation plan for the Army building on the progress made in the earlier phase of the modernisation process. The objective will be to ensure the Army can continue to meet the needs that arise, particularly the need for maximum flexibility and deployability. To this end, a civil and military review of the Army's organisation will commence in June. I have said on many occasions that it is important to get organisational structures right but we also need to get the human resources strategies right. This is a complex and difficult challenge, mainly because of the broad scope of the issues which arise. The White Paper and the programme for Government commit us to developing plans in this regard and good progress has been made.
In January 2003 I approved, in principle, the report of the Reserve Defence Force review implementation board on the recommendations of the special reserve steering group which had carried out an earlier detailed study of the Reserve Defence Force. The Army is now organised as a three brigade structure with a Defence Forces training centre. The Reserve Defence Force will be similarly restructured. These important changes will take place over approximately six years. The full organisational details of the new reserve will be determined in the course of the detailed implementation process. The new structure will require the amalgamation of FCA units in line with the philosophy of the steering group report. The end objective of this process is to ensure better training and facilities for all members of the Reserve Defence Force.
No decisions have yet been taken on the location of the proposed amalgamated units. The military authorities have advised me that all proposed amalgamations will provide for an optimal environment for personnel in the relevant areas to participate in the new enhanced reserve. The new organisation will replace An Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil with an Army Reserve consisting of both integrated and non-integrated elements. The integrated element will provide personnel for Permanent Defence Force units to bring them up to full operational strength in contingency scenarios. The larger non-integrated element will provide for the Army Reserve organised into three reserve brigades.
Members of the FCA already enjoy better clothing, improved equipment and better quality training. As the process develops, there will be additional benefits in a more dynamic role for the reserve, better organisation and structure, and opportunities for certain suitably qualified reserve personnel to serve overseas. I remain mindful of the need to preserve the many traditional and well established strengths of the current reserve system, not least the admirable spirit of individual voluntary commitment, close social links with local communities and significant depth and scope in terms of nationwide geographical spread. The funding provided for full-time reserve training has been significantly increased in recent years. This year's Estimate will provide for approximately 116,000 training man days. The corresponding figure for 1999 was 64,000 man days. The objective is to achieve standardisation and greater inter-operability between the Permanent Defence Force and the Reserve Defence Force over time.
Currently, almost 800 Defence Forces personnel are serving on 21 different missions throughout the world. The main commitments are to KFOR in Kosovo with nearly 260 personnel and UNMIL in Liberia with about 430 personnel. Other personnel are serving as monitors and observers with the United Nations, the OSCE and the European Union. Staff are also deployed at the organisational headquarters of the OSCE, the United Nations, NATO and the European Union. In the past year Ireland has reconfigured its commitment in the Balkans by replacing the existing military police platoon in SFOR in Bosnia Herzegovina and the transport company in KFOR with an APC mounted infantry company group in KFOR. The Defence Forces are serving as part of a Finnish battalion with a Swedish-led multinational brigade.
Ireland's other current major contribution to peacekeeping is in Liberia where, together with an infantry company group from Sweden, we provide the rapid reaction reserve to the UNMIL force commander. Despite the difficult start to this mission with the tragic death of Sergeant Derek Mooney of the Army Ranger Wing in a road accident, the mission is proving very successful. Ireland was specifically requested by the United Nations to participate in a substantive manner in this mission which is a tribute to the high regard in which the United Nations holds the Irish Defence Forces.
While recognising the larger contingents involved in overseas operations, we should not forget the men and women who serve professionally and with distinction in smaller numbers in a range of other missions, including UN, OSCE, and EU monitoring and observer missions. While these mission may not grab the headlines, Defence Forces personnel carry out vital work in these areas. In other locations Ireland also contributes small numbers of headquarters staff. Later this year we will conclude our participation with the ISAF in Afghanistan, UNIFIL in Lebanon and the UNFICYP in Cyprus. That our Defence Forces can work so effectively on peace support operations is due in no small way to the extensive investment made in equipment, infrastructure and training in recent years. Defence Forces personnel deployed to overseas missions can hold their heads high and see themselves on a par or ahead of other nations in terms of their equipment and training.
I turn now to defence and security developments within the European Union. The ability of the European Union to contribute to peacekeeping and crisis management continues to be of primary importance to member states and is carried out within the context of the European security and defence policy, or ESDP. Significant progress in a number of key areas of the policy was made during 2003. In December 1999 the Helsinki European Council set out the headline goal for military capabilities which involved being able by the end of 2003 to deploy within 60 days and sustain for at least one year up to 60,000 military personnel capable of carrying out a range of humanitarian, peacekeeping and crisis management tasks. These are known as the Petersberg tasks. At its meeting in June 2003 the Council noted the progress made in the field of military capabilities and the fact that while the European Union had operational capability across the full range of Petersberg tasks, these were limited and constrained by recognised shortfalls.
A significant development in the process of addressing these military capability shortfalls was the Thessaloníki Council decision to task the appropriate bodies of the Council to take the necessary actions towards creating during 2004 an intergovernmental agency in the fields of defence capabilities development, research, acquisition and armaments. The Irish Presidency has a major role in advancing this project to meet the 2004 deadline. In 2003 the operational capability of the European Union was demonstrated by the launch of four ESDP operations consisting of two military and two police programmes. Operation Artemis in the Democratic Republic of Congo was the European Union's first autonomous military operation. It was launched on 12 June 2003 in response to a request from the United Nations and officially concluded the following September. Ireland contributed three personnel to the operational headquarters in Paris and two to the force headquarters in Entebbe.
The first EU-led military crisis management operation, Concordia, in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia was completed on 15 December 2003. This EU-led operation followed a NATO-led mission and was conducted with recourse to NATO assets and capabilities. An EU police mission, Proxima, was deployed to Macedonia on 15 December 2003. The EU police mission in Bosnia-Herzegovina which took effect from 1 January 2003 is also ongoing. This mission with the mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo demonstrate the level of co-operation between the European Union and the United Nations which continues to be developed and enhanced at EU level. Operation Concordia represented the commencement of the implementation of EU-NATO co-operation arrangements, known as the Berlin plus arrangements. These are intended to enhance the operational capability of the European Union and provide the framework for a strategic partnership between the two organisations in the field of crisis management.
In the coming 12 months we are looking forward to the take-over by the European Union of the current NATO-led mission in Bosnia Herzegovina. Subject to the approval of the Government and Dáil Éireann and an appropriate UN mandate, I plan that Ireland will make a substantive contribution to the EU mission in SFOR. This contribution will take account of available resources and ongoing developments in other peace support missions in which we are involved.
I continue to report regularly on a confidential basis to the Government on emergency planning issues which have arisen. I presented the most recent confidential annual report to the Government last October. I am pleased with the level of co-operation across all Departments and other public authorities involved in emergency planning and response. However, there is a requirement on the Government to continue building upon what has been achieved. The Government must ensure confidence in the emergency planning process is sustained and that public trust in this process is enhanced. My report noted that last year had been one of consolidation of emergency planning development. Steps have been taken to build on the work done since 2001 to formalise the arrangements put in place and lay the groundwork for the future.
The vision continues to be that all State bodies will react quickly and effectively to any large-scale emergency. Responses will be characterised by effective management of all aspects of emergency planning and a high level of public confidence in all response arrangements. Under my chairmanship, the Government task force on emergency planning continues to meet to address emergency planning issues. The task force is an important mechanism which works to ensure a co-ordinated response to possible emergencies is provided by public authorities charged with such responsibilities. Potential threats to the State arising from international terrorism are continuously monitored by those involved, principally the Garda and the Defence Forces. While the threat to Ireland continues to be assessed as low, vigilance must be maintained as there is an awareness that circumstances could change with little notice.
The interdepartmental working group on emergency planning encompasses all Departments with lead roles in the various Government emergency plans and those key public authorities which plan to support such activities. Under the guidance of the Government task force, the working group has provided a forum for the discussion and sharing of information. It has also provided strategic guidance for all those involved in emergency planning.
In May 2003 responsibility for the management and development of Civil Defence at national level passed from my Department to the Civil Defence Board. This transition was provided for in the Civil Defence Act 2002. The board includes representatives of the principal stakeholders in the wider civil protection community. I take this opportunity to thank Civil Defence volunteers for their dedication to training to respond to major emergencies. They freely provide valuable assistance for their local communities and the major emergency services in search and rescue missions and first aid cover.
By 30 April 2004 a total of 16,713 claims had been received from current and former members of the Defence Forces in respect of loss of hearing allegedly caused during their military service. Of these, 15,222 claims have been disposed of, mainly through settlements. This leaves a total of 1,491 claims outstanding at the end of April. In the current year new claims continue to be received at a rate of one or two per week, which represents a huge reduction compared with previous years. The early settlement scheme has continued to operate successfully. By the end of April 2004 over 5,700 claims had been resolved by direct negotiations with plaintiffs' solicitors. In July 2002 I announced the cessation of the early settlement scheme for claims received after that date having come to the view that as the issue had been in the public domain for over ten years, it was time to bring it to a conclusion. Claims initiated on or before that date are still eligible for settlement under the scheme.
New claims are being contested in court on the grounds that they are now statute barred. We have received 246 such claims to date, of which 26 have been disposed of. To date, a total of €275.5 million has been paid in respect of hearing loss claims, including €92 million in plaintiffs' legal costs. The average settlement figure has decreased from €39,431 in 1996 to a current level of about €8,605. When plaintiffs' legal costs are included, the cost of settling the outstanding claims currently in hand is estimated at about €20 million.
Details of individual subheads for both Department of Defence and Army pension Estimates have been circulated to the committee. I will be pleased to answer any queries from members and assist in any way I can.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive review which gives members an excellent insight into what has happened and is happening. I invite brief responses from Deputies.
Gabhaim buíochas don Aire as an chuntas chuimsitheach a thug sé ar na himeachtaí go léir atá ag dul ar aghaidh laistigh den Roinn Cosanta. I take this opportunity to reaffirm my deepest respect for, and appreciation of, the work and commitment of the Defence Forces. The 10,500 members of the Permanent Defence Force and almost 14,000 members of the Reserve Defence Force work in often difficult and dangerous circumstances, both at home and abroad, in the cause of peace and democracy.
Ireland has a long and distinguished record of service with the United Nations on peacekeeping missions. For almost 50 years the Defence Forces have had a continuous presence with the United Nations and are recognised for the considerable skills they bring to keeping peace in troubled parts of the world. They are currently serving in Liberia on possibly their most difficult mission yet. Their achievements there have been acknowledged in the House and the media. The force is also on service in Kosovo where a recent increase in civil unrest and violence has challenged our personnel.
The role of the defence forces is critical to any well functioning state. In terms of security needs at home and meeting our international obligations, the equipping and resourcing of the Defence Forces deserve the closest scrutiny.
Given the current international security situation, we must reassess the equipment and resources available to the Defence Forces. In the wake of the Madrid atrocity, it seems that all EU countries could be targets for terrorism. In the light of this increased threat, a thorough and independent review of Ireland's defensive capacity, which is clearly very limited, is needed.
I am very concerned at the craft available to the Air Corps. It is no understatement that Ireland's air force is under-equipped and its aircraft years out of date. If this country was targeted in a terrorist attack, it would not be able to mount any sort of adequate response and would probably have to turn to the United Kingdom or other neighbouring countries for assistance.
The Minister referred to the acquisition of Pilatus aircraft from Switzerland. I note these aircraft have a limited defensive capability and are primarily for the training of pilots. This is an important function but defensive capabilities are also of importance. This should be recognised.
The age of helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft in the Air Corps is also of concern. The seven Alouettes on which the Air Corps rely are between 30 and 41 years of age, while the five Cessna aeroplanes owned by the Air Corps are 32 years old. This makes them even older than the Marchetti aeroplanes the Pilatus aicraft will replace, which is a cause of concern. Furthermore, the S61 helicopter is 26 years of age, while the Gazelle helicopter is 23 years of age. I ask the Minister to outline the timescale for the acquisition of new aircraft. I note that he wishes to replace this ageing helicopter fleet and appreciate that the tender acquisition process can add some months to the total timescale for the acquisition of new aircraft. Nonetheless, I would like to have some idea as to timescale for the acquisition of new aircraft and when they may be in service.
I note that the Naval Service allocation for 2004 has decreased by almost €1.5 million, a significant amount. This decrease incorporates a cutback in the amount allocated to the maintenance of vessels, which is of concern when one considers the increased demands on the Naval Service, whether fishing protection, drug protection, EU security or other tasks.
I am also concerned with regard to emergency planning. I am aware that the work of the task force on emergency planning established in the wake of the attacks in America on 11 September 2001 is assisted in its work by the interdepartmental working group on emergency planning. In addition, the Office of Emergency Planning based in the Department of Defence works with Departments and other authorities to ensure the best use and co-ordination of resources across the State agencies involved in emergency planning. The national security committee also comprises representatives at the highest level of the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Defence and Foreign Affairs, the Garda and the Defence Forces.
I note the Minister is pleased to report that he briefs the Government regularly on emergency planning issues. I would like him, however, to share my concern, one I have raised in the Dáil, that our approach to emergency planning is too fragmented as it comes under the control of the different agencies and task forces to which I referred. Will he streamline emergency planning procedures, especially in the light of the report from the Emergency Planning Society last year which found that Ireland was not in a position to respond coherently to an emergency? Furthermore, it was reported in the aftermath of the Madrid terrorist atrocity that the Minister had requested a review of the State's security measures and an announcement to this effect was made in the Dáil. Has the review concluded? If so, what was its outcome and will the Minister comment on it?
I note the Minister's word of thanks to the Civil Defence volunteers who, as he correctly states, are to be commended for their dedication and the valuable assistance they so freely provide for their local communities. However, the decentralisation of the Civil Defence Board to the Minister's constituency has provoked some controversy, not only in the choice of the building to house the board but also because some members of the board questioned whether the building in question would meet their requirements into the future. I note that the Estimate for this year shows a very small increase in the Civil Defence allocation to €5,593,000. How will an increase that is not in line with inflation safeguard the work and success of the Civil Defence Board upon which we all rely?
I am aware that we are pressed for time but perhaps I will be given an opportunity to raise a few other points and questions as we deal with the individual subheads.
I am sure the Minister will respond to the Deputy when he is winding up.
Tá áthas orm bheith anseo ar son Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre agus tá cúpla ceisteanna agam ar an Meastachán seo. Ar an gcéad dul síos, having read the report, it is clear that the proportion of females in the Defence Forces is very low by international standards. After 30 years of female representation, women still only make up 5% of the Defence Forces. I have raised this issue on previous occasions and ask the Minister to explain the position.
Army medical officers are being made available to replace striking medical prison officers, which raises questions as to a shortage of serving medical personnel. How many medical personnel are serving with troops abroad?
I have raised questions previously regarding the integrated management plan and the delay in implementing elements of the White Paper. I do not doubt the determination of the Minister and his Department to see the matter through. Will the action plan agreed with the representative organisations now be published? What is the up-to-date position?
An extraordinary amount of money has been paid out to meet hearing loss claims. It is also extraordinary, to say the least, that €92 million has been paid out in plaintiffs' legal costs. What is the current position? I note the number of claiming hearing loss has decreased. Do the current claims mark the end of the matter?
Reference was made in the report to the benefit to the Army of the sale of the barracks in Ballincollig and the investment of the money raised and so forth. I expected developments at Kilworth Camp due to the closure of Fermoy Camp in Kilcrumper but I am not aware if that has happened.
I could almost describe the An Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil building in Fair Street, Mallow as derelict. Mr. O'Callaghan will know to what I am referring as I made this point previously. An Fórsa Cosanta Áitiúil has an excellent record in Mallow where it gives great service.
Mar aon leis na Teachtaí eile, tréaslaím leis an Aire as an tuairisc chuimsitheach atá curtha os ár gcomhair um tráthnóna aige. I acknowledge the major achievements of the Defence Forces, both at home and abroad, since we last met to discuss these issues. We continue to wish them well, particularly those members who are serving abroad and proving to be outstanding ambassadors for the Irish people. Morale is particularly high. One of the main reasons for this has been the high level of investment in recent years, especially in the upgrading of barracks and accommodation facilities.
The Minister put some impressive figures before us. He referred to a total of €135 million in capital expenditure which is impressive by any standard. I compliment him, his team of civil servants and everybody involved in the Defence Forces on the ongoing work being done.
The Defence Forces have become an attractive career option for young people. I understand a recruitment campaign recently took place. How successful was it and what sort of numbers does the Minister anticipate bringing into the Defence Forces during the year?
Much of the investment referred to has been made possible through the practical and sensible disposal of properties, to some of which Deputy Sherlock referred. We now know that some of the remaining properties are to be used for the purpose of providing affordable housing and we laud all involved in that move. The Defence Forces are making their own unique contribution in the dedication of the lands in question.
Members will forgive me for being parochial. The Minister is aware of the situation at Magee Barracks in Kildare, a site which extends to some 65 acres. Good planning would dictate that it would be unlikely that 65 acres of affordable housing would be delivered but that there would be integrated development on the site. As facilities other than housing would be provided, there would be an opportunity to generate income. How does the Department envisage generating income in this regard? Is it envisaged that some of the income would come back to it?
Deputy McGinley referred to the issue of emergency planning which I am sure the Minister will address. There is a great deal of public interest in it, not least because of the international atrocities that have taken place. There is also concern at local level as to the effectiveness of local emergency plans. Confidence is higher in areas where military installations are located. Military personnel are the ideal persons to be on hand to meet local emergencies but what about those counties without a military installation? Does the Department have any input in that regard? What would be its contribution?
Other members referred to decentralisation. The move to the Curragh is sensible. Most of those who understand the Defence Forces see the wisdom of that initiative. What timescales are envisaged for the relocation of military headquarters to the Curragh Camp and civilian personnel to Newbridge?
I note that some 990 civilian personnel work in the Department. Given the major investment in barracks, facilities and equipment, the ongoing maintenance of the enhanced facilities may require the recruitment of additional civilian personnel. Is this envisaged, or will existing staff resources be adequate for this purpose?
I welcome the Minister and his staff. I hope I can also be forgiven for being parochial. Following on from Deputy Ó Fearghaíl's question on the timescale for decentralisation, when is it envisaged that Civil Defence willrelocate to Roscrea?
A vote has been called in the House. Does the Minister wish to add anything before we suspend the sitting?
Many issues have been raised, including that of emergency planning. What we are doing is co-ordinating the activities of various Departments and agencies which have a significant role to play in this area.
I have previously stated to Deputy McGinley that I have an open mind as to how this can be streamlined but it is important to realise that a central agency to take control of emergency planning would not have as much potential as one would imagine. We must bear in mind that anthrax is covered by Department of Health and Children protocols, nuclear issues concern the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the fire services come under the remit of local authorities while airports and other forms of transport come under that of the Department of Transport. It would not be that simple to bring all of these issues together under the remit of a central agency.
The challenges to be faced would depend on the type of atrocity involved. Health expertise is required in the purchase of antibiotics, vaccines and the provision of medical personnel to deal with particular issues and it is difficult to see how that could be changed. The specialist services required have to be maintained in hospitals and so on throughout the year. The same is true of the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland in nuclear matters. We are working well and there is a high level of co-operation.
On the acquisition of helicopters, the advertisement is in place. We are talking about a period of 12 to 18 months if there is a successful outcome in the negotiations with the company involved. We may well do two things. The speed with which the helicopters would be delivered will be a factor in making up our minds. Another factor will be if a particular company could do something to help us in the interim using any helicopters it may have. I accept, however, that we have an ageing fleet, the reason we have purchased the Lear jet, the Pilatus aircraft and the helicopters.
Sitting suspended at 5 p.m. and resumed at 5.20 p.m.