I welcome the Minister of State to the meeting. Perhaps he will introduce his officials.
Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill, 1998: Committee Stage.
I am accompanied by Mr. Liam Daly, Mr. Joe Mooney and Ms Nuala Smith.
I suggest to members that we conclude this meeting by 3 p.m. as this room is required by another committee. Is that agreed? Agreed. If we have not completed the Bill at that stage we will have to resume its consideration following the summer recess.
Chairman, with your permission, I wish to request that the committee defer consideration of section 2. The Chiropractic Association of Ireland has argued strongly that it should be given more time to present its case to the Department of Health and Children and to the committee. I do not wish to be unreasonable in this regard and I see no difficulty, if you, Chairman, and the committee agree, in delaying consideration of section 2. Nevertheless, I would like to ensure the passage of the Bill this year.
Both sections 2 and 5 will have to be deferred as an amendment to section 5 is consequential on section 2. It is not normal practice but we can accommodate the Minister of State in deference to the situation which has developed. The committee received a submission from the Chiropractic Association of Ireland and the Department of Health and Children was represented. A recommendation was made by the committee that legal representatives of both should meet. The Department of Health and Children did not meet with them until very recently, which is absolutely disgraceful. I would like this committee to communicate to the Secretary General of the Department of Health and Children our total dissatisfaction with the manner in which it has dealt with the subject matter which was vital to us in our consideration of Committee Stage of this Bill and the consultations which it was recommended should take place between the Department and the chiropractors. It would be remiss of me as Chairman if I did not put this forward to the committee so that it would have a full understanding of what has happened.
I thank the Chairman for the sentiments he has expressed in strong terms. It was my intention to express similar views in equally strong terms. It was disgraceful that the meeting with officials from the Department of Health and Children did not take place until last Friday. The meeting was arranged at short notice and it was Wednesday before the Department made contact with the chiropractors. This gave them from Wednesday to Friday to make all the necessary arrangements, during a holiday period when they could not get their people together. There is a suggestion that that was deliberate and I hope that is not the case.
At that meeting it was agreed that the CAI legal team should meet with the legal advisers of the Department. This meeting has not taken place yet which is another very good reason for postponing consideration of sections 2 and 5. As members of the committee will remember, legal issues figured prominently in the discussions we had here with officials from the Department of Health and Children and representatives of the chiropractors. There was a serious difference of opinion as to what the current legal position is in relation to chiropractors. This must be cleared up before we go on to make new law on the matter. These are practical considerations behind the proposal to adjourn discussions on those elements of the Bill.
No other decision could possibly have been made by the Minister of State, and I welcome it. The Minister of State, the Department of Public Enterprise and Transport and this committee has been put in an impossible position by the Department of Health and Children. The Chairman's strong words of criticism are well deserved. It seems an attitude was adopted by the Department of Health and Children and it did not want to yield any ground. Last Friday's meeting was held with the interests of the Chairman and the committee in mind. I am not sure they were prepared to attempt a consensus at that meeting. It is important that a strong message goes back to the Department of Health and Children that it has every reason to resolve this issue very quickly. The introduction of important legislation has been delayed because of the manner in which it has operated. The chiropractic association has put forward a very cogent and well argued case and it should be listened to. If the Department of Health and Children was to have its way, this Bill had been pushed through and the Minister had not exercised the degree of restraint that he did, chiropractic operations in this country would come to a halt and a large number of people would be grossly discommoded and thrown onto the already hard pressed health services. I cannot understand the attitude adopted by the Department of Health and Children, although I am very pleased with the attitude adopted by the Department of Public Enterprise. It is a vindication of the stance the chairmanhas taken on this matter over the past few months.
I support the deferral of this section. I am sympathetic to the case made by the chiropractic association, which highlights a number of problems. The general problem it highlights is that the Government needs to review whether radiological protection is as relevant as it may have been in the past to the Department of Public Enterprise. Increasingly it is emerging that it is relevant to health issues. This is one example. This issue dates back to when we were considering nuclear power as a form of energy in this country. It highlights perhaps how outdated the views might be in this regard between the association and the Department of Public Enterprise. That is a deeper issue. It involves the Department of Health and Children and this issue should be thrashed out in the committee dealing with health and children.
I appreciate the positive attitude adopted by the Minister and his officials to the problem that was brought to the Minister's attention on Second Stage. I would have supported the amendments tabled by Deputy Currie if they had been moved. I am glad the Minister suggested that the sections should be deferred. The Department of Health and Children have been digging their heels in on this issue not only since our last meeting but for a long time. That is why the matter was not resolved. An official letter should be sent by the chairman to the Minister for Health and Children to bring to his attention what has occurred, as described by the chairman, which is unacceptable. It is appropriate to defer consideration of section 2, as proposed by the Minister, until the matters are resolved to our and to his satisfaction.
Is it agreed that we send a letter and a copy of the transcript to the Minister and the Secretary General of the Department of Health and Children? Agreed. Is it also agreed that we defer consideration of sections 2 and 5? Agreed.
Section 1 agreed to.
Section 2 deferred.
SECTION 3.
Amendment No. 15 in the name of Deputy Sargent is out of order.
I received notification to that effect. Was it ruled out of order because it refers to the principal Act rather than to the amended Bill?
It was ruled out of order because of the narrowness of the scope of the Bill. The Bill provides in the main, first, for the strengthening of licensing powers of the Radiological Protection Institute in relation to the use of X-ray equipment by practitioners and, second, for the elaboration of the powers of the institute to fix licence fees. The only other substantial provision in the Bill is contained in section 4. This provides for a number of technical amendments to the Radiological Protection Act, 1999, clarifying the summary prosecution powers of relevant Ministers, the Radiological Protection Institute and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. Amendments Nos. 1, 15 and 16 introduce matters not relevant to the provisions of the Bill, as read a Second Time, and they must be ruled out of order.
I accept the ruling.
I do not have a personal view on the matter.
It is interesting to note that they were not out of order when the principal Bill was being considered in 1991.
It is now 1999, we are dealing with the Radiological Protection (Amendment) Bill, 1998, and in that context they have been ruled out of order.
Time moves on.
It would be an excellent subject for a Private Members' Bill and would make for a very interesting debate.
Amendment No. 15 not moved.
Amendment No. 16 in the name of Deputy Sargent has also been ruled out of order.
Amendment No 16 not moved.
Section 3 agreed to.
Section 4 agreed to.
Section 5 deferred.
The Select Committee adjourned at 2.15 p.m.