With regard to the 1992 circulars which we discussed earlier, would the Minister clarify what people on community employment programmes qualify for? Will the Minister guarantee that persons on community employment programmes will get the full entitlements they would have got if they had not participated in the programmes? I refer specifically to the exceptional need payments under the supplementary welfare rules. Lump sums of £50 are given at First Communion and Confirmation time, in the Southern Health Board area at least. Applicants are not receiving the full amount now because they are on the community employment schemes. Would the Minister intercede with the health boards to ensure that there is no loss of entitlement because of a person's willingness to work?
SECTION 24.
This gives me the power to make a statutory instrument. If I go to intercede with people they can tell me where to go. That is what happens to me.
Will the regulations ensure that all benefits are allowable in full?
That is its purpose and we will have to develop regulations to ensure that.
I will take the Minister's word on it.
I move amendment No. 29:
In page 25, before section 33, but in Part VI, to insert the following new section;
33.—The Principal Act is hereby amended by the insertion after section 238 of the following section:
238A.—(1) The Minister may, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, for gain or otherwise, promote and enter into, with a specified body—
(a) a contract or an agreement for the provision by him to, or
(b) a contract, agreement or a joint venture for the provision by him with,
that body, of consultancy, advisory, training, technical assistance or contract services or the sale or provision of computer products, inside and outside the State.
(2) In this section "a specfied body" means—
(a) a body established by or under any enactment (other than the Companies Acts, 1963 to 1990),
(b) a body established under the Companies Acts, 1963 to 1990,
(c) a body formed or established under the laws of a state other than the State and corresponding to a body referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b),
(d) an institution of the European Communities,
(e) a competent authority of a state other than the State, or
(f) the United Nations, the World Bank or any other international institution recognised by the State.
The purpose of this amendment is to give my Department the freedom to take a more commercial approach to the increasing opportunites that are becoming available to market skills and services overseas. The economic benefits from that are self-evident. We can help the job creation effort through the expertise we have developed, which is much in demand internationally. I know we are criticised a lot at home for it but, on an international basis, our experts and our systems are much in demand.
For a number of years my Department has received many delegations from different parts of the world to see how information technology has been used in the Department and how it has transformed some of our working practices. They have been impressed with what they saw and many have made return visits. In the last year or so we have had approaches from a number of public and private sector organisations regarding the possibility of providing expert assistance in the social welfare area on a consultancy basis to developing countries. With the opening up of eastern European countries many more opportunities present themselves.
We have invested steadily in information technology over the last 15 years and we have reaped significant productivity benefits from this investment. Investment in information technology is a continuing process and my Department continues to develop and modernise systems, to improve service to our customers, to improve efficiency and to give value for money at the same time. My Department has been involved in a joint initiative with the Digital Equipment Corporation, its main computer supplier, to develop a business plan which would use systems developed for social welfare services in Ireland as a base for marketing expertise and skills abroad.
I was in research myself in the past and too often I saw the products of the research and of Irish technologists not being used for anything elsewhere and not being used to create jobs here. In this area, Digital Equipment Corporation and other groups have been approaching us and we have been giving them information. We want to be able to formalise that and make it into packages which can be used by the private sector here, which would take up jobs or provide consultancies overseas and we might do that ourselves in limited instances.
We have been approached by a number of other organisations in Ireland who operate abroad and who wish to avail of social welfare expertise in order to enhance their chances of winning contracts. Significant amounts of money are dedicated to providing technical and other skills to developing countries through the European Union and other organisations such as the World Bank. We should ensure that Irish organisations with the required skills and expertise will have every opportunity of competing successfully in this market as it is good for employment, the economy and the individuals concerned.
The purpose of this amendment is to provide a legal basis to enable my Department to enter into agreements or contracts with various bodies for the provision of technical skills and services overseas. This is a new departure in public administration, as witnessed by the need to provide for it in legislation and we will see more of this type of development in the years ahead.
This new role for my Department reflects the Government's determination to develop joint ventures between the public and private sectors and create commercial units within Government Departments to develop and market the considerable expertise available. I am confident my Department is well positioned to maximise these opportunities for the development of new markets, which is an essential component of the Programme for Competitiveness and Work. It is only by widening our horizons, having confidence in our abilities, seeking every opportunity and working together, that can create employment opportunities and sustainable jobs.
We developed packages for computer work in payment and security systems — the British post office wants to use our security system for post-draft cheques and other bodies are also interested. We want to make those arrangements and ensure they are commercially useful to people at home and that they produce jobs.
Many of our people work in computer software because of the type of packages we develop, which are much in demand elsewhere. It is not intended to reduce our work at home but to make use of the fruits of that work to create jobs. Companies at home can set up a consultancy and involve people delivering such packages in other countries for various groups. This provision gives us powers to enable us to be involved in that work.
Does this provide for or disallow such arrangements with local authorities in Ireland? Sub-paragraph (2) of the proposed new section says: "A body specified means a body established by or under any enactment other than the Companies Acts 1963 to 1990." Would that allow local authorities to participate?
Yes.
For a minute I thought the Minister intended to privatise the Department of Social Welfare. I have no objection to this provision and I am delighted the expertise gained here will potentially be of use in job creation. If a specific project undertaken as a joint venture with a trading company is profit oriented, is it intended that the profits so earned will be returned to the Department?
We are discussing that at interdepartmental level with the Department of Finance and we are taking this initiative with support from that Department. Certain patents were introduced in the 1960s which were given away free. They have been used in Bord na Móna products but more jobs would have been created if they had been used properly. We do not want to branch into other areas; our only interest is that the technology can be used in the interests of the people and in job creation.
The matter also arose in the context of the operations of Digital. That company is currently considering setting up a centre of expertise in Ireland for its European operation. It will work in health, social welfare and other related activities. Digitial is considering this because people who used to work with the company in Galway have expertise in that area. On St. Patrick's Day last year in Boston I visited the company to set this project in motion.
It is an innovation and the Department is advanced in this area as Deputies will know but we should have the flexibility to turn this into jobs at home.
It may not be appropriate to ask but if the Department was to enter into joint ventures which were profitable both to the Department and the other party involved, would that profit be ploughed back into the Department?
We are discussing that with the Department of Finance.
It could be earmarked for a particular project.