Select Committee on Social Affairs debate -
Wednesday, 20 Mar 1996

SECTION 5.

Amendment No. 3 not moved.

Question proposed: "That section 5 stand part of the Bill."

Proinsias De Rossa

Section 5 provides for the improvements in child benefit as announced in the budget. Section 5 (1) provides for an increase of £2 in the rates of child benefit, bringing the rate payable for each of the first two children to £29 and the rate payable for third child onwards to £34. Section 5 (2) provides that the increased rates will come into effect on 1 September 1996. Section 5 (3) increases from £200 to £500 the grant payable on the birth of twins. This subsection also provides for an additional grant of £500 payable in respect of twins on reaching the ages of four and 12. Section 5 (4) provides that these improvements will apply in the case of twins who are born and who will reach age four or 12 on or after 1 January 1996.

Under existing provisions child benefit can be paid outside of the State to a parent who is resident abroad where that person or his or her spouse or partner is serving as a member of the Defence Forces or the Civil Service. Section 5 (5) extends to these provisions to a qualified parent where the parent or his or her spouse or partner is working abroad as a volunteer development worker or working abroad on a temporary basis insured under the Social Welfare Acts.

Miss M. Wallace

I want to raise with the Minister the issue of the unfair child benefit payment for twins. Prior to becoming Minister for Social Welfare, he was concerned that it was extraordinary that twins are not considered a multiple birth under the Social Welfare Acts, yet we saw no improvement or change in this either this year or last year. The spokesperson for the parents of twins is incensed at this stage and is referring to the new grants in this year's budget as unacceptable and discriminatory. How can the Minister reconcile his view prior to becoming Minister for Social Welfare that these people had a justifiable case with the fact that, since taking over in the Department, he has virtually ignored their position? I ask if he will comment on the crazy situation that twins are not considered a multiple birth.

Proinsias De Rossa

Again I am struck by the petty mean-minded approach of the Opposition to a significant improvement in the manner in which twins are treated for child benefit. I do not know whether the Deputy has the correspondence which I sent to the person campaigning for double payments of child benefit for twins. At no point in that correspondence did I commit myself to doubling child benefit for twins. I said there was a case for treating twins differently from single births, and that is what I have done in the budget by providing for an increase in the grant from £200 to £500 on the birth of twins and introducing two new grants for twins, one payable at age four when it is expected they will start school and the other at age 12 when it is expected they will transfer from primary to secondary school. These are the three points at which I believe there are significant additional costs involved for parents of twins. At birth there is the cost of cots, prams, clothes and so on, when starting school there is the cost of school bags, books and perhaps uniforms and at age 12 there is the cost of moving from primary to secondary school.

To say this is an unfair development is extraordinary. It is untrue to say that I have ignored the issue of twins and that I welshed on a commitment I gave some years ago to those campaigning for better treatment for twins. I have implemented the commitment I made when in Opposition. I made it clear at the time that there was a justifiable case to deal with twins differently from single births. There is no sustainable argument, however, for treating them in the same way as triplets. On foot of the commitment I made many years ago and of my belief that there are special costs involved for families when twins are born, when they start school and when they transfer from primary to secondary school, I have provided three new grants. For Deputy Wallace to describe that as unfair or discriminatory is extraordinary. It could be argued — I am waiting for the argument to be made — that parents of single birth children are discriminated against in that they too have additional costs when their children start school and when they transfer from primary to secondary school. If there is discrimination perhaps it is in that area.

Miss M. Wallace

Prior to the Minister entering the Department of Social Welfare he and his party were of the opinion that twins constituted a multiple birth. However, now that he is in a position to do something about the issue he is not willing to take it on board. While every member of the committee believes that twins constitute a multiple birth, in social welfare terms they are not considered as such. In the Minister's letter he said that the people campaigning for double payments had a justifiable case and that he would pass the issue to his spokesperson on Social Welfare, Deputy Byrne, who in turn highlighted the failure to recognise twin births as a multiple birth.

Even though the Minister and his party highlighted this scandal when in Opposition — he even suggested at the time to the people involved that they lobby their local Fianna Fáil TDs on the matter — he now fails to recognise that twin births constitute a multiple birth. A document produced by the Minister's party on 1 May 1991 claimed that the then Minister was wrong in not recognising twins as a multiple birth. When the Minister took office in the Department of Social Welfare the people involved wrote to congratulate him, believing that he would take action on their behalf. Those people are now annoyed that recognition has not been given to twins as a multiple birth. They are concerned that they were used as political pawns and believe that the Minister has failed to respond to them. They are now told that the question is being kept under review from one budget to the next.

Proinsias De Rossa

I find the Deputy's case extraordinary.

Miss M. Wallace

The Minister said it was a justifiable case.

Proinsias De Rossa

I have listened to the Deputy with some patience.

Miss M. Wallace

On a point of order——

Proinsias De Rossa

I have listened to the Deputy warbling about this issue. Nobody ever suggested in this House that twins do not constitute a multiple birth.

Miss M. Wallace

The Department does not recognise that.

Proinsias De Rossa

The question of how to treat multiple births is the real issue. For some reason Fianna Fáil, in a search for votes, decided to double child benefit for triplets throughout their childhood, which is extraordinary. Virtually every week on the radio Joe Duffy praises the fact that he receives hundreds of pounds per month for his triplets.

Mr. Flood

Does he mention Fianna Fáil?

Proinsias De Rossa

Nobody could reasonably argue that Joe Duffy and his wife, very decent people whom I have met from time to time, who both work and have a reasonably good income, are in need of that money. There is no dispute as to whether twins constitute a multiple birth. The question that arises is how to treat twins. For example, should they be treated in the same way as triplets? In the context of the resources available and that we must provide for general increases in rates — we have provided for families in general through child benefit — I met the commitment I made in good faith by providing for twins an increased grant at birth and two additional grants, one at age four and the other at age 12. That recognises that twins constitute a multiple birth, which gives rise to special costs at particular times in the lives of those children.

This issue should be considered in the context that child benefit generally has been increased by £9 per child per month —£7 last September and a further £2 this year. In addition we are providing for twins £500 at birth, £500 at age four and £500 at age 12. In introducing those measures I am recognising that twins constitute a multiple birth. By providing special assistance when needed I am meeting in full the commitment I made in writing to the organisation that campaigned on behalf of twins. It may not be sufficient for the individual running the campaign but I have not yet met a parent of twins who has not congratulated me on introducing those grants.

Question put and agreed to.

The Select Committee adjourned at 3.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21 March 1996.