The committee will now consider the Revised Estimate for Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development with the Minister for Rural and Community Development. I welcome the Minister and her officials, and the Aire Stáit, Deputy Joe O'Brien. I invite the Minister to make her opening statement.
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development (Revised)
I thank the Chair and the members of the committee for the invitation to attend today to discuss and seek approval for the 2024 Revised Estimates for the Department of Rural and Community Development. I was here very recently for a Supplementary Estimate and I am glad to be back again to bring forward this Estimate, which will ensure the progress we have made in recent years continues into 2024.
For 2024, gross expenditure of €431 million is budgeted, which consists of €221 million in current expenditure and €210 million in capital expenditure. My Department also has a capital carryover of €20 million from 2023 into 2024. On the split across programme areas, €205.4 million is allocated for the rural development and the islands programme area, €220.5 million is allocated for the community development programme, with €20 million of capital carryover from 2023 also being used to support the community recognition fund in 2024. Finally, €5.4 million is allocated for the work of the Charities Regulator. The €205.4 million provided for the rural development programme, including the islands, is made up of €166.8 million in capital funding and €38.5 million in current funding.
Capital funding is of particular importance for the rural development programme, delivering schemes, including LEADER, the rural regeneration and development fund, town and village renewal, the local improvement scheme, LIS, and CLÁR. These schemes are now really well established and are having a positive impact for towns, villages and parishes throughout Ireland. The €205 million will allow additional funding for both LIS and CLÁR and will bring their funding levels to €13 million and €8.7 million. It also provides funding increases for the continued provision of lifeline transport services to our offshore islands and for capital investment on our islands. Last year saw the highest level of capital investment ever by my Department. Over €213 million in capital funding was paid out with €158 million of that under the Department's rural development programme. This funding is helping to make rural Ireland an even better place to live, supporting rural communities, and helping the rural economy to develop and grow.
I must also note the importance of the €38.5 million in current funding for the rural development programme. The current funding helps to support implementation of policies such as our rural future, Town Centre First and the national outdoor recreation strategy. It also funds vital schemes and services, including the walks scheme, rural recreation officers, the Western Development Commission, and transport services to the islands.
The Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, is here to discuss the community development programme area. The Revised Estimate will see a funding allocation of €220.5 million for 2024, with €177 million for current funding and €43.1 million in capital funding. In addition, there is €5.4 million in current funding allocated for the Charities Regulator. There are important core current funding increases for community development. These include an additional €4.6 million for the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, and related measures, bringing core funding for social inclusion measures up to €58 million. There is an additional €1 million for local community development committees, bringing the allocation to €3.4 million. There is an additional €1.5 million under the European social fund for social innovation supports to help mentor and develop social enterprises. There is €0.5 million to promote responsible dog ownership. There is an increase of €0.4 million for Water Safety Ireland to €1.8 million. There is an additional €100,000 for public participation networks, PPNs, bringing that funding to €2.95 million. There has also been an increase in funding for the Charities Regulatory Authority, from €5 million to €5.4 million. The overall figure of €220 million for community development includes a non-core allocation of €11 million to assist with the community response to the Ukrainian crisis, under SICAP and through volunteering supports. This funds important work to assist and help integrate new arrivals into local communities throughout the country.
With regard to capital funding for community development, I launched the community centre investment fund in 2022. The first funding round focused on upgrades and improvements, with approvals of €45 million made and €32 million paid out to date for these improvement works. A second funding round, focusing on new builds, was introduced in 2023, and approvals for that will be announced shortly. A budget provision of €21 million is being made for this area in 2024, which covers the community centre investment fund and the local enhancement programme, which is a small grants scheme for communities and community groups. This scheme has really brought communities together and will ensure every community can be proud of their local community centre. I look forward to seeing the impact of this new scheme continue in 2024 and beyond.
In 2023, following a Government decision, I established a community recognition fund to support community infrastructure in areas welcoming new arrivals. This capital fund recognises the contribution of communities to the national response. Under this round of the fund, €50 million has been allocated to 880 projects, with €10 million spent in 2023 and I hope to see the remainder completed as soon as possible.
Finally, as the committee is aware, Government continues to consider the needs of communities that are welcoming new arrivals and the impact of the community recognition fund and the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, are part of those discussions. Significant supports are already in place, but additional ones may emerge following these discussions
In closing, this Revised Estimate for 2024 shows the Government's continued strong commitment to rural and community development and provides the funding to make sure that our schemes and programmes continue to support rural areas and communities across the country. When we talk about the social protection Estimate we usually talk in billions of euro, but when we talk of rural and community development, we are dealing in millions. When we consider programmes like Ceantair Laga Árd-Riachtanais, CLÁR, the community centres funds and the outdoor recreation fund, these are small grants, but they make a huge difference in our local communities. I often say that while the Department of Rural and Community Development is one of the smallest Departments in government it has the greatest impact in communities across the country.
As Deputies may be aware, when this Government was formed, I was determined that the Department of Rural and Community Development would be retained as a stand-alone Department. Having two Departments means more work for me as Minister and for the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O' Brien, but I am conscious that it also means more work for the committee members and for the officials. There are two sets of Estimates and two sets of parliamentary questions to consider and so on. I want to acknowledge this and thank the committee for its time. With the Minister of State, Deputy O'Brien, I am happy to answer any questions the committee may have.
Minister, thank you for your opening statement. We will now go through the programme subheads. The first one is administration. Are there any questions? No. The next is rural development, regional affairs and the islands. Are there any questions? No. The next is programme B, which is community development.
Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. I would like to extend my condolences to the family of the former Taoiseach and his friends and colleagues in the Fine Gael Party.
Funding is down by 0.8%. I look at the community recognition fund which has decreased to a proposed €10 million in 2024. In relation to the community development sector, it is disappointing to see that the funding has gone down. I am not sure why this is the case. When we look at the significant impacts of extra funding for Ukrainians and people in international protection, I do not see a slowdown in the numbers of people coming to the country. In fact, in January, we have seen a significant increase in the number of Ukrainians coming to the country. This is expected to continue in February as well. We have also seen a huge increase in the numbers of people seeking international protection. The community recognition fund is a vital piece of the infrastructure to support communities that are accepting people into their communities. The fund is an acknowledgement that there are significant impacts on their communities. Will the Minister comment on this?
I thank the Deputy for his words of condolence.
In May 2023, €50 million in funding was announced for more than 880 proposals under the community recognition fund. The entire €50 million has been allocated across all local authorities, based on the number of new arrivals located here. It follows an extensive consultation process with local authorities. Each local authority submitted individual lists of projects for approval. Some €30 million of the fund was available in 2023 and €20 million in 2024. Of the €30 million, almost €10 million allocated for the community recognition fund has been spent, providing funding for 60 projects. Of the remaining €40 million, provision of €30 million was made in 2024. That is €20 million of a carry over and €10 million allocated in 2024. The rest is available when needed by supplementary requests, if necessary.
If we need any more we can get it but this is the way we have outlined it for this year. The problem is some of these are big projects and it will take longer for them to get up and running. It is about making sure we have enough money but if they go better than anticipated, we can get a Supplementary Estimate. That is the plan.
Just for clarification, I am asking about a community that has not previously applied for funding but has taken in a certain number of Ukrainians or international protection applicants and is looking for it this year. If it is new to this and if certain things need to happen in the community as part of the community development fund, is the Minister saying there will be additional funding if required?
No. That has to be a decision of Government but there are discussions ongoing about supporting communities with new arrivals they have not had before. It will be part of the 2025 or 2026 budgets. We are discussing it. I take the Deputy's point. It is true there are areas which had no new arrivals and suddenly have them. They should not be-----
Excluded.
-----left out because all of the money is spent in other areas. We will continue to engage with communities and local authorities. This is something Government is discussing.
On the community development programme, the Minister said in her opening statement that €500,000 will be provided to promote responsible dog ownership. I will raise with the Minister something I have raised before, namely, the issue of persistent dog fouling on our streets and footpaths. It is a persistent and consistent problem and a disgusting problem for families and adults using the footpaths in many streets. Disappointingly, there are many streets in Ireland on which you would want wellingtons to go around, with the amount of dog fouling. That is particularly so when you have young children because they will not avoid it. We talk about active travel and people getting out into the fresh air, yet on footpaths in our streets and on paths in our parks, every small child comes home with dog foul on their footwear or clothes because of irresponsible behaviour by dog owners. This issue has not been properly addressed. In terms of the €500,000, will this aspect be addressed?
It needs to be taken up with the Minister for the environment in terms of increasing fines for people involved in this practice, as well as increasing enforcement. It is not good enough. We spend substantial amounts of public funds on opening walkways, opening and developing parks and investing in safe routes to school and town centres, yet a small cohort of irresponsible people make many of these no-go areas for buggies, small children and older people. I have seen it first hand outside the homes and on the doorsteps of older people's dwellings. It is disgraceful and disgusting.
I absolutely agree there is nothing more disgusting that dog fouling. There are irresponsible dog owners who allow that to happen. I agree the fines should be greater. It is a matter for the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications.
Under the litter Act, that Department has responsibility but I have no problem with highlighting the issue in terms of my Department. We are providing €500,000 for a comprehensive media campaign on responsible dog ownership because we have heard the stories about what has happened and situations where people have been attacked. A lot of that comes down to the owner of the dog who is not keeping it under control. We want a media campaign on the issue. We are going to have a targeted neutering campaign and I am also going to set up a stakeholder group. That is going to bring in all the stakeholders and there are many diverse views on dogs, as we know. We are setting that up and I have identified a chairperson. I am going to move that on as quickly as I can and set up that group, so it can come forward with suggestions. We must get all the players into the room because there is no one solution to the issues of dogs and dog control. We are coming into the lambing season and dogs that are allowed to run around are dangerous.
We are also going to develop and provide standardised training for dog wardens. The county councils and local authorities have a role here because they have responsibility for the dog wardens. I know that is not an easy job. It is about how we can support them better in their jobs. A number of measures are taking place. I am working with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine because he also has responsibility in this area. A couple of Departments are involved. The stakeholder group will bring everybody into the one room and will have a good chairperson. It can come forward with suggestions. Everybody will have problems but we also need solutions. There is a big focus on the issue, and rightly so.
I will make two suggestions for that stakeholder group. The first is that the issue of dog fouling should be included as part of the group's work programme. The second is that representatives of older people and the parents of young children are included in the group, so those voices can be represented. In many cases, they are the ones on the receiving end of this particular practice. If the Minister could address both of those aspects as part of the stakeholder group, I would appreciate it.
I thank the Cathaoirleach. I will certainly ask the group to look at the issue of dog fouling. As to the make-up of the group, it is getting bigger every day and I do not want it to become so big that is unworkable. I will ask about that point. I am sure some of the people in the group will have small children and older people will be represented by other groups. The stakeholder group will be well aware of how absolutely disgusting dog fouling is. The Cathaoirleach is right that we are investing good money to upgrade our pathways and walkways and there is nothing worse than to have that carry-on.
May I make one suggestion? I understand the Minister does not want a forum that is too big but a simple compromise would be to include wheelchair users. They would be well able to articulate the problems. I ask the Minister to ensure that at least one representative of wheelchair users is included in the forum, so the issue is properly articulated and addressed.
I take the Cathaoirleach's point. We will certainly ask the stakeholder group to consider the issue.
We will move on to consideration of the Charities Regulator. Are there any questions? No. That is the Vote. We have gone through it but if there are any other brief supplementary questions, I will take them. We are running tight on time.
I wish to clarify a point. The Town Centre First policy is a joint policy between the Department of Rural and Community and Development and the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I want to understand which funding is provided by the Minister's Department and which is provided by the Department of housing.
We have €3.6 million allocated for matters related to Town Centre First policy such as the appointment of a town regeneration officers for which we pay, the development of the plans, and the establishment and the operation of the Town Centre First national office. We work in conjunction with the Department of housing and it looks at other issues involved in the regeneration of the town centres as well. It is a joint policy and it is about bringing old derelict buildings back into use. We have the rural regeneration fund in my Department and we deal with the towns under a certain size, and the Department of housing has the urban renewal development fund, URDF, which looks at the bigger towns. This was to tie the whole thing together so that we have one Town Centre First officer who pulls in the businesses, the local authorities, the Departments and can look at it from a much more holistic perspective. Therefore, there is no duplication of work; one person does it. There is the Town Centre First national office, which is based in the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, and is funded through the Department of housing.
Regarding the community centres investment fund for the large projects, when will the announcements be made?
It will definitely be before the end of quarter 1. I am getting closer every day and they nearly there-----
That means in the next six weeks?
They are well assessed. I have not seen them yet but they have been assessed, have gone through a process and I hoping to get them soon.
Will this be in the next seven weeks?
It will be in the next few weeks.
The next few weeks. I will hold the Minister to that.
It could be the week after next or the following week.
Regarding LIS funding, has the Minister a database of eligible applications that shows the demand for that scheme, as compared to the amount of funding Government is providing for it? Why is it the Department of Social Protection rather than the Department of Transport providing it, I never know.
If I could get money out of the Department of Transport, we would be flying. I have been pumping any spare money I have into the LIS.
I advise the Minister to tell the Department of Transport that it is for walking.
If the Deputy can bring representatives from the Department of Transport in before the committee and ask them why they will not give me money for the LIS, that would be very useful.
The Cathaoirleach is all open to suggestions on that particular one.
As the Deputy knows, the LIS has closed. It opened up in 2016 and since then I have put over €100 million into it. The budget for this year is €13 million and that is up for €12 million in 2023. There is a big long list of lanes in different parts of the country. In some counties, the list has gone down in numbers and in others it is getting bigger because some local authorities opened up the scheme to new applicants while other local authorities decided to try to get rid of the backlog before opening it up. It is hard to compare like for like with counties. However, in total, as of the end of December 2023, local authorities told us they had 3,400 roads and stated that the categorisation of backlog varied from county to county and represented a point-in-time estimation from 2023. There are a good few roads included there. Some 3,400 roads are listed. Any spare money I had last year, I transferred it over to try to reduce the LIS backlogs. I also always raise it at budget time that it is an area where money is spent quickly but it has a huge impact. The Deputy has asked me about changing the criteria. I said I would rather get rid of some of the long list before I did that or before I allowed more house owners as opposed to the way it is now where you have to have two land owners before qualifying now.
I think the scheme is totally different in different parts of the country. We do not have any lanes in Connemara. They are all bóithrín. They are actually roads and they are not primarily for agriculture. Many of them are going to the bog. However, they are roads that were always there. Take south Connemara where you had the main road and then the road off that going to the sea. People built along that road to the sea or up to the bog through the land, so there are houses on most of these roads but they were always there as roads. They are not something that people created just to build a house. The problems was that a lot of these roads were done 20 or 30 years ago but the weather and traffic causes damage and they need to be done again. Unfortunately Galway County Council did not take over the roads. Is there any way of carrying out a national assessment of what the demand is?
I have a bit of a hang up on this because I believe that every house in this country, up to the front gate but not beyond unless there is exceptional humanitarian reasons, should have water and broadband. The Government is getting there on broadband - full marks to it - but there is still a major problem with water with 10% of houses depending on private sources of water which are very variable and very rarely checked. Every house should have electricity, which is effectively done. The last thing is a decent road, in this very wet climate, to every house in the country. I do not think it is an awful lot to ask because rural people do not benefit from all the other infrastructure like footpaths, street lights, wastewater systems and so on that cost a fortune for the State not only to build but also to maintain. Is there any way that an inventory could be drawn up of the number of houses that do not have a tarred road to them, so we could assess this problem? I think those five basics are basics for every house.
The scheme for the community, not the local improvement scheme, but the community-----
The community enhancement scheme.
It is the one that is run through the Department of Transport where communities can come together and put in a contribution. There is a grant there to top it up for roads. Is that public roads the Deputy is talking about?
That is public roads.
They can do that on public roads.
I am talking about people who have been left stranded by an incoherent county council policy. There are roads that have existed for hundreds of years, on which there are houses, that are not in the charge of the local authority. That is why the demand is so big for the LIS in places like Galway. In Galway, it is a lot of money. You have a list of really genuine roads, although some are higher priority than others. Once they pass houses, that is the main priority in Galway. It is to get to the houses never mind the land.
In Galway they are actually public roads. They are not private roads.
No, they are not.
Deputy Ó Cuív is talking about private roads.
This is a vexed question as to whether they are public or private. They are all -----
Public access.
They are public rights of way that have been there for years but they are not in the charge of the local authority. You would not know, if it was well tarred by an LIS scheme in the last few years, where the public road ends and the private road begins. We often have to go to the county council to find out where the public road ends and where the non-public road begins because they are part of the same bóithrín.
I take the Deputy's point. I thought CIS -----
We will not sort it today on the Estimates but we need to look at this issue because, as I said, it is a fundamental right in this country to have those five things.
I do not know. Maybe the community improvement scheme will not work for them.
It is LIS or nothing.
It is LIS or nothing. We are happy to liaise with Galway County Council.
It should be able to provide that information. It is up to it to get the information. Last year, we gave it almost €2 million in funding under LIS. Some people say some local authorities did better than others. We did a call out last year. We gave all of them an allocation and then we did a call asking them to send us what they could spend and told them that if they did not spend it, we would cut it from them next year. They had to be realistic because there was no point in them sending me sums of money they were not going to spend because I need to spend as the Deputy will appreciate. We got the list and gave every local authority 70% of what they asked for, so that was not a bad stab at it to try to get it down a bit. I hear what the Deputy is saying but we can engage with Galway County Council in terms of the roads referred to by the Deputy.
When will SICAP roll out?
I will refer that question to the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien.
The majority have been decided. There are three that are still in the tender process and that is ongoing. There are certainly ones in Galway that I know of and in Meath as well.
What are the other two?
I think there are two in Galway and one in Meath but I am open to correction on that.
When will they get a decision?
There has been a rolling of the current contracts to make sure there is no gap. It involves Meath, Mayo islands, Galway east, Galway west and Galway islands so we have a bit to work through there but no area is left without SICAP in the interim.
Galway is getting an awful doing.
The Deputy will appreciate that I cannot say too much about an ongoing issue.
I am not asking the Minister of State to-----
Has the Deputy any final question?
When will LEADER roll it out fully? That is up to 2027. It is a seven-year rolling fund up to 2027 but we have only really got 2024, 2025, 2026 and 2027 left.
I have kept them going in the meantime. Eighteen of the local action groups are selected for the new programme and I expect to have all decisions of the independent selection committee issued in the coming weeks. I want to get this new programme up and running. I do not know about the Deputy but people are coming to my office wanting to know when this LEADER money is coming. It will be done very quickly. There were areas where they had to be assessed. There was a competitive bid. They are being assessed by an independent panel. The panel had a few things to finish up. It will be coming to me in the next week or two because I am asking my officials very regularly about when I can announce the rest of LEADER funding because it is money we want out there being spent on the ground.
What about the islands?
Very briefly because we have gone over time.
Will it be outlined in 2024? What new actions that will be implemented on islands in 2024 - I am thinking in particular of housing, which has become a crisis on the islands - on foot on the islands policy published last year?
I am giving the top up on Croí Cónaithe for the islands. I know the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage is looking at housing and what measures he can come up with. I am sure the Deputy has been talking to him about measures to assist the islands because we know housing is a significant issue on the islands. Regarding the three-year action plan, there is a commitment to review the cost of transporting goods on cargo services. I accept it costs more to build a house on an island because the materials must be brought over on a boat. The Department intends to have the review completed by the end of 2024. It is heavily subsidised but it still costs-----
The Minister recognises this with regard to Croí Cónaithe. The cost of building on an island or doing anything on an island that requires the physical movement of bulky goods does not just involve the cost of transport. We could give the transport for free and it would still not resolve the extra cost issue. If someone was getting something delivered to his or her house, he or she would put it on a vehicle, bring it to his or her house and take it off.
That is in one movement. To put that into a house on an island, the item has to be brought as far as the port, the equivalent of getting it to your house. There are then the transport costs of the boat. Even in the mythical world where they were eliminated, when you get to the island you have to reload it again, bring it to the house, and unload it for a second time. It is the handling of the goods that costs a lot of the money. Therefore, it is always more expensive to do things on islands. When Croí Cónaithe was being announced I thought it was coming from the Department with responsibility for housing but it is coming from the Minister's Department and I welcome that. I think it is a little bit low. As the islanders will say themselves, it is 35% more expensive to build on an island.
We spoke to the Minister about the housing aid for older people, HAOP, grant. Islands should have the same top-up because it is just more expensive. I stress to the Minister that if all the Departments do not tackle the issue on the islands, a lot of the investment will be lost because people cannot live on the islands without the housing issue being resolved. That includes new families. The idea one has to be born on the island to get planning permission or to get a house on the island and that not even the local development company can build houses on islands for people who are coming in means every island will be killed off.
I thank the Deputy for acknowledging my Department was the first one out of the traps on this, in giving the top-up to the Croí Cónaithe scheme. By the way, I think it is the best grant ever because I drive down the road now and see houses being renovated - some of them very imaginatively, I might add. The Croí Cónaithe scheme is doing a great job across the country. It is a great scheme and I support the Minister all the way with that. We had an opportunity to top it up for the islanders, and we did that.
I accept the islanders want more. I understand why because of the costs and all of that. I might have set a precedent here because people will want top-ups in other areas. I understand that. It is not easy to live on an island. I am thinking of the DPD van which leaves goods at the port. The goods have to get to the port from wherever on the mainland and then on to an islander's own place. These are all of the challenges we forget about sometimes.
The three-year islands action plan contains a commitment to review the cost of transporting the goods on cargo services. It will be looked at and will be done by the end of 2024. It is something we need to push, highlight and see how we can solved it and I am happy to do that.
I thank the Minister and the committee members for their time. That concludes the committee's business for today.