This is a formal meeting of the Committee to consider the amendments which appear on the Paper, and I think it would be right to explain how they come before us in this shape. They are the result of several conferences with experts, including Commissioner Murphy, who gave us very valuable assistance, and they were all brought before an informal meeting of the Committee a week ago. They were then very fully discussed, with the exception of a couple of amendments which appear on the Paper in Senator Linehan's name. That will probably result in us not having to discuss at any very great length any of these amendments, but it does not, of course, prevent any member of the Committee from discussing them further, or from proposing any further amendments that he may think fit. The proceedings to-day will be in exactly the same form as if the Senate was sitting in Committee; that is to say, we will have to take each amendment formally, discuss it and pass or reject it as the case may be. The question is that the Preamble and Title be postponed.
SECTION 1
The following amendment stands in the name of Senator Sir John Griffith. Perhaps some Senator would move it on his behalf:—
Section 1, line 25. To delete line 25 and to substitute therefor the words:—
The council of any county or county borough or borough or urban district or rural district or the town commissioner of any town not being an urban district (hereinafter referred to as the local authority).
I have pleasure in moving it.
The reason for it was explained by Senator Sir John Griffith the last time. It was to get rid of the fact that there was no definition of a local authority until the end of the Bill. That is, we start with the local authority doing most of the things that have to be done under this Bill, and we have to look to the end of the Bill for a definition of a local authority. This amendment gets rid of that.
The following amendment has been handed in by Senator Linehan:—
Section 1, lines 26 and 27. To delete the words " and when directed by the Minister for Local Government and Public Health (hereinafter referred to as the Minister) shall."
Colonel Moore
Senator Linehan has asked me to move this amendment for him. He told me that his object was to prevent small towns being ordered and forced to make town plans when they did not wish to. That was all that he told me about it.
Of course, the answer to that is that this does not refer only to small towns, but to any town, and if you remove the words referred to you in fact remove from the Minister the power to order that a town survey should be made, because this deals with surveys, not with town plans. I think it is essential, if the scheme of the Bill is to be maintained, that it should not be left entirely at the option of any local authority, that there should be behind the Minister power to order that a town survey in the first instance should be made, because the whole purpose of the Bill is to improve the general lay-out and to preserve the amenities of the country as a whole, and it would not be to the public benefit if general plans could be frustrated by an obstinate local authority. Unless we give authority to the Minister to order this in case of necessity, we will be very little benefited from the present chaotic situation, and it is part of the general scheme of the Bill that the local authorities shall co-operate. It is intended that they shall co-operate, but there is this reservation of power left to the Minister, which is in accord with the general principles of our legislation. I think that the amendment should not be accepted.
Colonel Moore
I did not promise to advocate this amendment. I merely stated what Senator Linehan told me.
Besides, if the amendment is rejected here the Senator will have an opportunity of moving it on Report.
I move:—
Section 1, line 28. To delete the words " within three years from the first day of August, 1929."
We think that these words are not necessary, that in fact they may be limiting, although the intention was that the preparation of these civic surveys should be expedited, but it will be seen that if the words are kept in and if nothing happens within the three years, then the powers will have been lost, so that I propose to delete these words. They do not add to the strength of the Bill but rather weaken it.
Colonel Moore
On behalf of Senator Linehan I move:
Section 1, line 34. To delete all words after the word " Minister " to the end of the section.
The proposal in the section is that the local authority may, and when directed by the Minister shall cause a survey to be prepared. The latter part of it is an essential part of the survey—" and shall record and delineate the circumstances of such area, in the manner and with such competent assistance as the Minister shall, by regulations to be made by him under this Act, prescribe." I do not know what was Senator Linehan's purpose in putting down the amendment, but it seems to be part of the proposal to remove from the Minister that final authority. But it seems to me that these last four lines which the Senator seeks to have deleted should be retained, because they are an essential part of the scheme.
If the Senator intends to preserve the rights of country authorities the trouble would be that it would not be known if they were willing to have town planning schemes, and they would go about them really without a direction from the Minister.