I beg to move in sub-section 1 to delete all after the word " supplied " in line 11 to the end of sub-paragraph (a) and to substitute " by individual cow-keepers."" Manufacturing exporters " appear to be premises which buy cream from individuals.
If that is so, the Minister has power to impose any conditions he likes on these individuals suppliers. That means to say that all conditions of cleanliness, and everything else, can be enlarged in any direction he likes; it gives an enormous power over every individual who sells cream.
The manufacturing exporters are rather a peculiar class.
This whole section applies only to manufacturing exporters?
Yes. I think it was represented when the Bill was going through the Dáil that there are institutions calling themselves creameries which, instead of separating the milk, collect the cream from the farmers—the Macamore Creamery is a case in point. There are not a great many farmers in the neighbourhood, and it would be too far for a man to take his milk there. To farmers a long distance away from the creameries it would be a great hardship to take milk in every day. To avoid the procedure of separating milk, the cream is collected from farmers. It is a system no one is much enamoured with, as obviously the milk is liable to be sour and half churned on the way. On the other hand, a lot of people thought, if there was to be any extension of the creamery business in the West of Ireland, that it is on these lines that the extension would take place, when you will not have dairy farmers so numerous in any one area as to provide enough of milk daily. I do not think that there is very much in that myself, but in any event, it would be a pity to shut down this possibility. We decided, in view of representations made to us, regarding separating premises, to give them a special class. Up to this they did not want to be called butter factories and they are not creameries. We are giving them the right to use the word " creamery " for three years in view of the fact that they have been using it and supplying good butter, and it would be a serious hardship to shut down at once. The few in existence do things particularly well and there is no danger in giving them the right to use the word " creamery " for three years. By reason of the fact that it is harder to control butter than cream, they invited us to make regulations as stringent as we like and said: " We will submit to any regulations and prove that we will make as good butter as any creamery."
Macamore, for instance.
Did the individuals who supply Macamore agree to give the Government a blank cheque?
I do not say that, but that they agreed to the imposition of more serious restrictions and regulations on them than on the creameries.
The individual suppliers?
No, the creamery itself.
This deals with individuals.
I am dealing with the first paragraph: " All butter manufactured on the premises shall be made from cream which has been separated from milk on the premises, or has been supplied from other premises, subject to such conditions as may be prescribed."
Would not " other premises " govern individual farmers?
It would, and that is why it is put like that.
As I read this, every individual farmer supplying places like Macamore is liable to be subject to any conditions which the Government likes to impose. This gives an opening to apply these conditions on individuals.
If we delete " or has been supplied from other premises subject to such conditions as may be prescribed " and insert " individual cow-keepers," then you will agree that such creameries cannot, as the section is drafted, get cream from a cream-separating station. I do not think that is intended. With regard to the second point, I think " has been supplied from other premises " would include individual cow-keepers.
You can make it if you like " or has been supplied from milk-separating stations or from other premises, including individual cow-keepers' premises."" Premises " look rather like the premises we have been speaking about all through the Bill—registered premises. You would still have to retain the words " subject to such conditions as may be prescribed."
That is right, but that is taking power over these people which we are not taking over creameries. We are making an experiment, a rather dangerous experiment, in allowing them to use the word " creamery." I have seen representatives, not alone of the creameries, but of the farmers supplying to Macamore and they state that they are willing to submit to our regulations.
They are getting into an Act in which they have no right to be.
Do you assume that from the fact that there are two or three people in Ireland registered as manufacturing exporters? Will not a number of proprietary people register as manufacturing exporters rather than as creameries?
They would be very foolish if they do.
Of course they would.
It is a greater advantage.
It gives them the brand for three years.
For these years they can do what they like.
They would only have three years' trade.
If they had a profitable one for three years it would not matter.
If a creamery applied without registering itself we certainly would refuse them.
So you ought.
Would you give them the national brand for these three years?
Manufacturing exporters may get the national brand and use the term " creamery butter," but Mr. Bennett's point was, supposing the case of a creamery which separates milk in the ordinary way applies to be registered as a manufacturing exporter instead of a creamery, would we agree? I say no. We are putting in this to meet special cases.
It is given in aid of a certain class temporarily.
I am not pressing the amendment, but I will bring it up again on Report.
Amendment withdrawn; to come up on Report.
Amendments 42 and 43 withdrawn, as they have been already covered. Amendment 44 is withdrawn for the moment, but will be brought up again on Report. Amendments 45 and 46 are withdrawn because they were originally drafted for Second Reading. I was hoping there would not be what are, in my opinion, totally worthless restrictions on factory butter which will always be had. However, as they want to control factories, let it stand.