Special Committee on the Roads Bill, 1991 debate -
Tuesday, 14 Jul 1992

SECTION 7.

Mr. Gilmore

I move amendment No. 17:

In page 10, lines 25 to 31, to delete subsection (2) and substitute the following:

"(2) Where it is proposed to make regulations under this Act, a draft of each regulation shall be laid before each of the Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall not come into effect until a resolution approving of the draft has been passed by each such House.".

This section, as drafted, provides for two sets of circumstances which will arise when regulations are being made. When regulations are made under sections 10 and 17 — section 10 deals with the classification of roads and section 17 deals with the functions of the Roads Authority — there is a requirement that the regulations be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and would not be made until a resolution had been passed by each House. In the case of all other regulations it is the other way around; the regulations are made, laid before the Houses and unless a resolution is passed annulling them, the regulations are made. From experience we know that motions annulling regulations do not happen for a variety of reasons. I fail to see why there are two categories here. I am seeking to have the same rules apply to all regulations, in other words, that the regulations be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas and would not come into effect until a resolution is passed to give effect to them.

Mr. Smith

The Bill provides the legal framework for roads. Administration and much of the procedural work is done by way of regulations. Deputy Gilmore, myself and others shared experiences in the House during the spring and early summer on a variety of Bills. The general feeling was that, on one hand, much more should be covered by the primary legislation and, on the other, there should be one band of regulations. In practice most of us appreciate it is not possible for primary legislation to cover all the detail and procedural aspects and, envisage changes that might take place. The regulations provide for more flexibility and orders for change where these are mainly of a procedural nature.

It would not be necessary to be bound, to come back to the Houses of the Oireachtas on these procedural matters. For example, where an important matter of policy is concerned, under sections 10 or 17 you must get positive confirmation from the Oireachtas. I do not know if there is a better way to do it. Even with the best will in the world, if primary legislation is to take account of all these features it will get bogged down.

Deputy Yates referred to the embryonic stages of this Bill, going back to 1987. From the time decisions were taken to make changes, it takes a long time to tease out the different aspects of legislation. In my Department there is a considerable range of activities to cover the transportation of directives on the environment, housing, planning, dogs, electoral issues, Environmental Protection Agency and roads into legislation and if we were required to transpose all the regulations into primary legislation we would be bogged down. It is not necessary, and it is not the practice anywhere. I want to assure Deputy Gilmore that important aspects of the regulatory side, vis-�-vis policy changes, have to be confirmed by the Oireachtas.

I accept the point that very often when these regulations are laid before the Houses there is no opportunity for debate, but following reform of the Houses of the Oireachtas, there may be an opportunity to deal with these matters. Because the required changes in management are not made is not a reason to try to delay legislation further. The effect of going down that road would be that whatever time it takes to prepare primary legislation, if we were to involve ourselves in the detailed work on the regulatory side and then transposing that into primary legislation, we would be talking about much longer periods.

Mr. Gilmore

It is probable that this debate will go on and on. There are many circumstances where regulations can be made under this Bill and it is wrong that so much legislation which affects so many people, can be put in place simply by regulation without any debate or public examination other than this archaic arrangement unless the Dáil annuls it, which, of course, does not happen in practice,

Amendment, by leave withdrawn.

Section 7 agreed to.