Special Committee Pigs and Bacon Bill, 1934 debate -
Thursday, 11 Apr 1935

SECTION 105.

Deputy Dillon

I move amendment No. 99:—

Before sub-section (2) to insert a new sub-section as follows:—

In the event of the Board consentting to the removal of a percentage of bacon which has been placed in cold store by any licensee the Board shall consent to the removal of a similar percentage by every other licensee of the bacon which such other licensee has placed in cold store in pursuance of a cold storage order.

This amendment is designed to ensure that if one curer gets permission to remove a certain percentage of his bacon from cold store, similar permission will be available to every other curer. That does not mean that if a large curer is allowed to remove 100 cwts. every other curer would be allowed to remove the same quantity but only the same percentage of his cold storage.

Minister for Agriculture

This seems a fair amendment but I wonder would it be possible for the Board to carry out its terms absolutely. If you take the case of a cold store in Donegal when 20 or 30 cwts. of bacon are wanted, rather than have bacon sent from Limerick to Donegal, the Board might say, " Take out 20 or 30 cwts. locally." It might not be convenient to allow people all over the country to take out a similar percentage at that particular moment. I think the Board will be compelled to act on that principle but I should like to see some safeguard. I cannot imagine the Board acting otherwise but it would be dangerous not to give them power to make exceptions from time to time.

Deputy Dillon

It is essential that there should be no discrimination in respect of that privilege between one curer and another because it might be a very valuable privilege. All I am asking is that they should permit the withdrawal—not order the withdrawal—of a certain quantity.

Minister for Agriculture

It might compel the Board, in certain cases where withdrawal should be allowed, to refuse permission for withdrawal of a small amount.

Deputy Dillon

The alternative to permitting withdrawal in such circumstances as the Minister outlines would be to require the man in Donegal to get bacon from Limerick or somewhere else and, surely, that is the course that ought to be pursued. Suppose this amendment is inserted and 30 cwts. of bacon are wanted at Ballybofey, in County Donegal, the Board will say: " Shall we allow a Donegal curer to take that quantity out of cold store. If we do, it will mean that bacon will be removed in Waterford, Cork and all over the country and it is better that he should get 30 cwt. from Limerick to meet the emergency." A situation of shortage may arise through an unexpected increase in consumption when it would be equitable to say to everybody that he could take 2 per cent. out of cold store.

Minister for Agriculture

This is another case where I am not sure that in the drafting of these two sections the case is not already covered; for instance, if they make an order putting the bacon into cold storage it must come under a certain percentage and sub-section (2) says that the Board may revoke or amend an order. I do not know how they could amend it except by making out the certain percentage again.

Deputy Dillon

Section 105 is a permissive section, and it is clearly intended to give the Board the right to permit or withdraw bacon from cold storage. Surely no emergency can arise that will be made insoluble by my amendment.

Deputy Smith

How does Deputy Dillon anticipate all these injustices being attempted by members of the bacon trade ? You would imagine that they would be just to one another—that they would be just to members of their own trade and would not tolerate interference from any outside source.

Deputy Dillon

Suppose the Party funds of Fianna Fáil and the Fine Gael were put into one general pool and——

Deputy Smith

I would not like to go in with your funds at the present time.

Deputy Dillon

——and suppose the Deputy and I were elected on a Joint Committee for the purpose of equally distributing the funds between the two Parties, would he be satisfied if a majority of the Committee were members of the Fine Gael Party ? He might take the view that we were honest and honourable men and would disseminate the funds fairly, but I think he would like to see a certain security over the distribution.

Deputy Smith

I cannot see the analogy.

Deputy Dillon

In this case the funds are the bacon in cold storage.

Deputy O'Reilly

Are they not all members of the trade themselves ?

Deputy Smith

There are three classes of bacon curers and each will have a right to elect a number of representatives on the Board and surely one must draw very hard on one's imagination to think that they would be so bad as to attempt to do an injustice to one another.

Deputy Maguire

If the quantity for distribution was very small a contingency like Deputy Dillon suggests might possibly arise. I can imagine, for instance, where only 50 tons were to be distributed, and where 10 tons were required for a certain area it would be hard to distribute that quota over the whole country.

Deputy Dillon

Once you had an arrangement of this kind it becomes impossible to determine who shall get priority of the bacon in any one area. There may be two or three curers in that area.

Deputy Maguire

I can see your point but it is almost impossible to regulate that through legislation. At the same time, the Board would be the best people to decide what would be the best to do to avoid injustice.

Deputy Smith

Deputy Dillon is not putting the curers very high in our estimation.

Minister for Agriculture

I do not think the amendment is required but I promise that I will look into it and if there is a necessity for it I will introduce it on the Report Stage.

Section 105 agreed to.