Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 16 June 2004
63 Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for Defence his views on the current staffing levels for the Defence Forces; if it is planned to increase these staffing levels over the coming 12 months; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17855/04]
View answer90 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Defence his plans to increase the strength of the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17861/04]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 63 and 90 together.
The White Paper on Defence of February 2000 sets out a figure of 10,500 personnel for the Permanent Defence Force, comprising 930 for the Air Corps, 1,144 for the Naval Service and 8,426 for the Army. The strength of the Permanent Defence Force as of 30 April 2004 is as shown in the following table:
|
Service |
Officers |
NCOs |
Privates |
Cadets |
Total |
|
Army |
1,018 |
3,085 |
4,311 |
96 |
8,510 |
|
Air Corps |
138 |
410 |
331 |
10 |
889 |
|
Naval Service |
135 |
464 |
453 |
29 |
1,081 |
It is my intention to maintain the established Government policy of ongoing recruitment to the Defence Forces. Recruitment to the Permanent Defence Force will continue to maintain the strength at a level required to meet military needs and as set out in the White Paper, that is, 10,500 Permanent Defence Force, all ranks. The Government remains fully committed to the policy of ongoing recruitment to ensure an overall PDF strength of 10,500 is achieved and maintained. The ongoing recruitment campaign for enlistment in the Defence Forces, which I have approved, is designed to address any shortfall in personnel in the Defence Forces. It is proposed to recruit ten cadets to the Naval Service, 50 cadets to the Army and six cadets to the Air Corps from the 2004 cadetship competition. It is intended to recruit 15 apprentices to the Air Corps in 2004. From January 2004 to date, there has been an intake of 165 general service recruits. The requirements for any further intakes will be reviewed on an ongoing basis.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive account of the present strength of the Defence Forces. I am sure he appreciates, as we all do, the demands on the Defences Forces both nationally and internationally. The international commitment is becoming more pronounced every year. We were all delighted when our first contingent to Liberia recently returned home safely. I had the pleasure of meeting one member of that contingent in my constituency last week with whom I had a conversation about what went on out there. We appreciate what they are doing.
Is the Minister confident the White Paper target of 10,500 personnel is sufficient to meet the demand at national and international level? How many non-commissioned members of the Defence Forces have been taken on this year and will there be another campaign during the remainder of the year?
There have been 165 general recruits this year. Ongoing recruitment is dependent on how the numbers are going. It usually reaches a total of 400 to 500 at the end of the year. I cannot speak specifically for this year, as there was some reduction because of the decision taken in regard to the 10,500 plus the 250 in training. A proportion of that number is obviously affected by that decision.
As to whether 10,500 is enough, one could always do with more. That is the decision that has been taken. There are times when we are stretched in meeting our UN requirements. What the public may not often understand is that when there are roughly 800 troops abroad, another 800 troops are in preparation and training to replace them and there may well be another 800 in the early stages of preparation for a subsequent tour of duty. A great deal of training is required for the new missions and we must also ensure safety equipment and so on is dealt with. Overall, it is working well and morale is high. There has been significant investment in equipment and accommodation.
The work done by the first contingent to Liberia which set up Camp Clara has been excellent. I am anxious that Front Bench spokespersons in the House and others who are interested would have an opportunity to visit and see at first hand the work that is being done there. I would encourage that very much. The one person I would be delighted to have there is Deputy Gormley. It is necessary for him to go through such a process to be convinced in a way that is not necessary for other Members.
Is that an invitation?
That is most certainly an invitation.
I would be delighted to take the Minister up on it.
I appreciate the Minister's invitation which we will consider. From what I heard from those who returned from Liberia, the Minister's visit there was much appreciated by serving personnel.
In addition to difficulties regarding recruitment in the past and more recently, there was a problem with an exodus from certain sections of the Defence Forces. I refer especially to members of the Air Corps and An Slua Muirí. Have these difficulties been overcome and are we able to recruit sufficient personnel to man these two important arms of our Defence Forces? Incentives were given to people who had valuable training to leave the Air Corps. An Slua Muirí had other difficulties. The demands on parts of it were so great that members spent too much time away from home and did not have enough time ashore with their families. Have these difficulties been sorted out and are more recent recruits remaining in the Defence Forces?
When the economy is going well and there are plenty of alternative employment opportunities, people in the Defence Forces, like everywhere else, look to the various options available to them. Civil aviation opportunities exploded for Air Corps pilots in particular, but that has slowed down considerably. The haemorrhage is not as acute as in the past.
Other factors must also be taken into account. Non-commissioned officers qualify for a pension after 21 years and officers qualify for a pension and lump sum after 12 years. In theory, an officer could leave in his 30s with a pension for life and a lump sum. The arrangements for the Defence Forces are fairly generous, which sometimes act against us to a degree. The training programmes in the Defence Forces, both in the science and technology areas as well as defence, are highly specialised. Defence Forces members are fit and able people and there has been a significant investment in training and third level education for some. It is desirable to retain such people for as long as possible within the Defence Forces. However, even when people leave, there is not a loss to the economy if they take up other important jobs because the capacity they have developed enhances the work they do in other areas.
Overall, it is working reasonably well although there are times we lose specialists. We have particular problems with keeping up the numbers of artificers, engineers and others as far as the Navy is concerned. As I informed Deputies on a previous occasion, we are very troubled in terms of trying to retain medical personnel.
Regarding the age profile of Defence Forces members, is it envisaged there will be a haemorrhage in the near future due to the retirement of a large group of members and has that been factored into the recruitment plans? Is a Defence Forces strength of 10,500 sufficient to meet UN and rapid reaction commitments? If we have a rapid reaction commitment the same year, the equivalent of 1,600 personnel would be abroad at any one stage.
The UNSAS and rapid reaction commitments are one and the same and we do not have a doubling of the figure of 850. I would be faced with an horrendous situation if there was a problem in Europe or elsewhere where we had to make an attempt to meet such a demand. We would not be able to meet those needs and that is why they are one and the same. However, that is not to say that in stretched circumstances, depending on the distress and humanitarian needs involved, we would not be able to stretch ourselves a bit further for a temporary period. This is not something I invite, envisage or would be happy about, because it could not be maintained.
Will the Deputy remind me of the first part of his question?
I asked whether there was a specific group or year.
The problem existed in the past. One of the reasons I changed to constant recruitment was because we had periods where there was no recruitment for four or five years and we then had to fill a gap. The circumstance outlined by the Deputy arises from those conditions, where all of these people were the same age and retiring early at the same time. We dealt with that problem and should never invite anything like it again.
The age profile is reducing all the time. Both the Gleeson and the earlier report on the Defence Forces said the age profile was too high but it is coming down dramatically and will continue to do so.
Are the Minister's plans sufficient to meet the strength requirements for the Defence Forces for the foreseeable future? Are current manpower levels adequate to cater for all eventualities?
These questions were asked earlier.
We are listening and waiting for the answers to them.
No matter what we do, we will not get the Deputy to stick to the rules. Leaving that aside, there is no doubt that there are times when we are stretched. We have up to 800 people engaged in UN, OSCE or other missions at present and are stretched when we must cope with potential problems such as foot and mouth disease. On the other hand, the development of the peace process has ensured that the demands on the Border have been considerably reduced. The transit of money, thankfully, is beginning to decline somewhat and there is greater support for the Garda in other matters. The numbers are adequate if——
Has the Minister no plans to increase the numbers?
No other party in this House has such plans.
That is not the purpose of the question. The purpose of the question was to elicit what plans the Minister has to increase the strength of the various elements of the Defence Forces. The Minister's answer is that he does not propose to increase anything.
The White Paper on Defence specified a ten-year span of 10,500. This was made clear to the public and supported by every party in the House.
Those circumstances have changed. There are now serious threats from overseas that did not exist then.
The Deputy should not try to pretend——
I am surprised by the Minister. I thought he was prepared to cover all eventualities.
The Deputy will not get away with that sort of pretence.
The Minister is shadow boxing.
