Strategic Management Initiative.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 8 July 2004

Thursday, 8 July 2004

Questions (4)

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

4 Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on and if he proposes to implement the proposals contained in the final report of the Garda SMI implementation steering group to downgrade five divisional Garda headquarters and up to 30 district Garda headquarters; the way in which and when he intends to proceed with this; if he has identified possible locations for downgrading; the details of the factors that will be taken into account in making such decisions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20858/04]

Oral answers (8 contributions)

Mr. McDowell

The strategic management initiative in the Garda Síochána has been under way since 1997 and a great deal of work has been done. Far-reaching recommendations in a previous Garda SMI report on performance and accountability have been included in the Garda Síochána Bill which is before the Seanad. The current report is the final one of the Garda SMI implementation steering group. It deals with important aspects of the organisation and structure of the Garda Síochána, and I believe it will inform the Garda Commissioner in the kind of strategic planning envisaged for the Garda organisation when the Garda Síochána Bill is enacted.

In compiling this report, a lengthy process of consultation was undertaken by the Garda SMI implementation steering group and a related review group. This was an inclusive, consultative process, involving Garda management, the Garda representative associations, officials of interested Departments and outside consultants. Their task was to give advice and make recommendations as to how the challenging and wide-ranging proposals for change and enhanced efficiency in the Garda Síochána, which were made in an earlier report of the 1997 steering group, could be translated into reality.

The Garda SMI report makes recommendations on the reorganisation of Garda regions, divisions and districts throughout the country, including the reduction of the number of regions by one, the number of divisions by five and the number of districts by between 20 and 32. The Government and I have made no decision on this or any other proposal in the report. In this and many other aspects of the report, the Garda Commissioner, under the terms of the Garda Síochána Bill, will have enhanced responsibilities in preparing proposals for organisational reform, and I believe that this report will be of considerable assistance to the Garda Commissioner in that task.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Does the Minster accept that these proposals, if implemented, will involve substantial downgrading of Garda headquarters throughout the country? The number of divisional headquarters, where a chief superintendent is stationed, will be reduced from 22 to 17 and the district headquarters, which I understand number approximately 130, could be reduced to fewer than 100.

Does the Minister recognise the bond that exists in cities, towns and villages throughout the country between the people and the Garda Síochána? Does he not see that, if this proposal is implemented, contact between the Garda and communities will be diminished? Will he agree that the theory behind this proposal is to centralise the Garda in Dublin and throughout rural areas? We could end up in the position where people's only contact with the Garda would be in situations of conflict and this is the wrong approach. The Minister appears to be adopting a Pontius Pilate reaction to the report in that he implies it will be for the Garda Commissioner to implement. Has he any stance on the issues I have raised?

Mr. McDowell

I do have a stance that reform of the Garda Síochána is definitely needed. I do not accept the proposition that the distribution of the Garda Síochána, which has much to do with the 19th century distribution of the RIC in Ireland, rather than 21st century conditions and circumstances, needs to be reformed. I have no problem in saying that. Likewise, our changing demographics will clearly have implications for the Garda Síochána. The fact that our population is becoming increasingly urbanised and that the numbers are rising, are issues which require a response in terms of the organisation of the Garda Síochána and, lest it be forgotten, its size. That is why it is necessary to increase the size of the force.

It is not a Pontius Pilate act on my behalf. I am bringing forward legislation in the Oireachtas which has been broadly welcomed in which day-to-day management and control will be vested in a tangible way in the Commissioner, on the basis of statute. At present, under the 1924 legislation the distribution of the Garda Síochána is, theoretically, still a matter for my decision. I do not believe that giving the Minister of the day the right to move Garda resources from this town to that town, as envisaged in the 1920s, is the proper way to run a police force. It is important to keep the Garda away from political interference. This House would be the first to raise its collective eyebrows, if I were suddenly to announce that gardaí should be transferred from, say, Cork to Limerick or from Limerick to Dublin or vice versa on the basis of my judgment of the situation instead of on the good, reflective policy making of the Garda Commissioner.

The slimming down of some Garda branches does not have implications for the large numbers of gardaí across the country. I believe the coming weeks will show it is vitally necessary to have a proper chain of command and accountability within the Garda Síochána.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

We are not talking about day-to-day matters when discussing the downgrading of Garda stations. As regards the size of the force, I am surprised the Minister even mentions it since that was the greatest con job of the last election. We are still missing the 2,000 gardaí. If these proposals are implemented, will that not have an enormous impact on the opening hours of stations? The only stations with assured 24-hour opening will be the 17 divisional headquarters.

Mr. McDowell

I will not deal with the first two points because the Deputy will have his reply soon enough. On his point about Garda stations, I would like to inform the Deputy that in the Dublin metropolitan region, at any given time there are 34 sergeants and 60 gardaí engaged in station office duties. When rostering is taken into account, that means 177 sergeants and 312 gardaí are permanently allotted to station duties in the Dublin area. In some cases many of them might be better deployed on the streets or doing core Garda policing functions outside the station.

I have made the point on a number of occasions that Tiger Woods could, from a point in St. Stephen's Green, drive a ball to Pearse Street, Harcourt Terrace, Kevin Street and Harcourt Square Garda stations.

Mr. Durkan

He used to be able to. He is not now.

Mr. J. O’Keeffe

Would the Minister not be patriotic and talk about Padraig Harrington?

Mr. McDowell

He could hit four Garda stations with a good drive from that area. All of those stations have to be manned at night. They must all have the complement of gardaí I have just mentioned attached to them. We must change a little. There is no point in pretending that everything must remain the same. However, I agree with the Deputy that we have to maintain the strong links between the ordinary people and the Garda Síochána. We cannot have a Garda service which is provided by commuting gardaí at a great distance from the community they serve. We must strive to maintain the links between the Garda Síochána and the community in which it is based and within which it is working.