Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 9 July 2008
42 Deputy Dan Neville asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government his views on electronic voting; the cost of storing electronic voting equipment for 2007 and to date in 2008; whether this is an acceptable cost in view of the economic downturn; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27712/08]
View answerAs I recently informed the House, I am at present considering the next steps to be taken in relation to the electronic voting project. In this, I am taking into account the work of the Commission on Electronic Voting, which has examined the system, relevant experiences and developments internationally, the need to maintain public confidence in the electoral process, as well as the provisions in the programme for Government relating to electoral reform generally.
I am not in a position, therefore, to be definitive regarding the timing of future use of the system. I am conscious of the extensive work inherent in the recommendations of the Commission on Electronic Voting, including the replacement of the election management software, as well as adaptations to the equipment and further end-to-end testing. At the very least, it will be problematic to envisage use of the current e-voting scheme at the local and European elections in 2009.
Information provided by returning officers to my Department indicates that the total annual storage costs incurred by them in respect of electronic voting machines and ancillary equipment in 2007 is €489,000. In 2006, these costs amounted to €706,000. Based on recent provisional information from returning officers, a total of €139,000 has been expended to date in 2008 in respect of the storage of the electronic voting equipment. Full annual cost data is gathered by my Department at the end of each year and a more definitive figure will be available in due course.
In 2007, over 60% of the electronic voting machines — 4,762 in total — were moved to a central storage facility located at Gormanston army camp. Costs incurred to date in respect of the movement and storage of this equipment are approximately €328,000. These are largely one-off costs related to the preparation of the facility, transportation of the machines and the acquisition of storage containers. The available capacity at this location has now been fully utilised and my Department is examining other options for greater centralised storage of the remaining machines. Further costs will be incurred in the completion of these centralised storage arrangements, including buy-out costs of local leases.
With approximately €51.32 million having been spent on the development of the electronic voting project, it is reasonable to make adequate and appropriate provision for the storage of the machines. The Government decision to proceed with the movement of the electronic voting equipment to centralised premises, therefore, was the right approach, taking into account a range of factors, including costs of the current and centralised arrangements and the likely benefits to be realised.
In a previous reply, the Minister stated that he would not be afraid to make a tough decision, if necessary, on the e-voting machines. Obviously he did not get around to making any tough decision in the past few days, despite the announcement of €43 million worth of cuts in his Department. He has an opportunity now to make some savings by terminating the storage arrangements and selling or recycling the e-voting machines, although it now seems clear that will not happen.
Does the Minister accept that €51.3 million in the roll-out of electronic voting and €2.8 million, to date, on storage costs is an obscene amount of money to have spent on a project that is dead? At a time when €48.3 million must be saved in his Department, I urge him to re-examine those cuts and to deal with the issue of terminating the storage contracts and selling, at whatever salvage value can be obtained, the e-voting machines.
It is very interesting to hear the Deputy speak on this issue because I get the impression that if a decision is made in line with the Fine Gael manifesto, which is to scrap electronic voting, that——
I am glad to hear the Minister has read our manifesto. I have read the Green Party's manifesto which has changed considerably.
Fine Gael would welcome that decision with open arms.
The Green Party tore up its manifesto last June.
We will put down a marker here today.
The Minister should answer the question.
The marker is that Fine Gael is encouraging me to do this. I take it that if a decision is made along those lines, Fine Gael would be more than happy to welcome it. To return to the point made by Deputy Hogan, I have a funny feeling that Fine Gael would crow about waste.
This is an issue with which I must deal. I am looking at the best international practice. The problem, as the Deputy knows, is that countries like Germany use these machines and are happy with them. France is currently conducting a study on this to see if these machines can be tampered with in any particular way. I must give consideration to all of these matters.
I will talk to those dealing with the setting up of the electoral commission.
I am anxious to bring in other Deputies.
Hopefully, I am progressing that at a rate with which Deputy Hogan will be happy. The commission will have its report by the end of August. I would also like it to look at this issue and see what recommendations it can come up with.
Members of this House and the public have no faith in these electronic voting machines. The Minister needs to get that report and see what can be salvaged from this situation. Certainly, a considerable amount of money has been wasted in the storage of these voting machines. Does the Minister see these machines being used in the local or European elections next year? When will they be used? Otherwise, what is the point in having them in the first instance?
In my original reply, I said that it would be quite problematic for these machines to be used at this stage in the local and European elections.
Deputy Hogan may ask a brief supplementary.
I know the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is being very patient.
Lots of latitude.
I do my best.
I know the Minister had a difficulty with e-voting machines when there was no verifiable paper trail before the election but, like everything in his party's manifesto, it has been torn up. Does he accept that those machines are effectively obsolete? Does he also accept that this is a more meaningful way of making savings in his Department rather than the proposal he came up with this week?
Hear, hear.
The Deputy knows only too well that the commission on electronic voting carried out an analysis. He also knows that in respect of the voter verified audit trail, VVAT, issue, it was not part of the terms of reference. However, the submissions made reference to VVAT and the need for it. It looked at that issue in some detail.
We know that retrofitting will cost about €22 million, which is probably a conservative estimate. That is the figure it came up with. If the Deputy is suggesting that we spend——
The Minister should justify that.
The question is whether it is the Deputy who is justifying that.
The Minister is the one who mentioned the figures.
Those are the questions with which I must grapple.
The Minister should justify it but he cannot. It is more hot air like the incinerator.
