Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 16 December 2008
67 Deputy James Reilly asked the Minister for Health and Children the way she can justify spending €78 million on a computer system to replace the PPARs computer system; the way she will guarantee that spending on this system will be controlled; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [45858/08]
View answerThere is no proposal to spend €78 million on a computer system to replace PPARs. The Deputy may, however, be referring to a draft business plan for financial and procurement systems received by my Department in September of this year. This included proposed capital costs of just under €78 million.
The draft business plan has since been discussed with the HSE and revised proposals involving lower investment levels are being developed by the HSE.
Notwithstanding the fine print around the €78 million, at a time when we cannot afford vaccines for children, will the Minister outline to the House how she proposes to ensure this does not end up being another fiasco like PPARs? It is extraordinary this issue is only now being dealt with given the Minister has held this portfolio for the past four years.
The HSE report was today leaked on the airwaves. I want to know why it was not laid before this House given it deals with issues that affect every man, woman and child. This is the proper place for that report to be released, not on the national airwaves. I remind the Minister of the failed launch, on three occasions at a cost of €2 million, of the HSE Portal website, which is now merely a myth.
Will the Minister comment on the remarks of her financial comptroller on the 1 o'clock news today that the HSE over-performed last year? How does she propose to sell this to the relatives of Graham Dempsey from Cork, who has been left on a trolley for 30 hours and whose nappy is being changed in public view; to the family of Beverly Seville-Doyle who died in accident and emergency at the Mater Hospital; to the family of 77 year old Peg McEntee who was left for three days on a trolley; to the lady in Cork left on a trolley for 48 hours whose oxygen ran out; or to a patient of mine who as late as last month was left on a trolley for 48 hours?
It beggars belief that we can have statements to this effect. I wonder how the Minister intends to reassure the public given the 400-bed reduction last year, the proposed cut of 600 beds this year, the fact that 750 beds are being blocked by patients needing discharge but who have nowhere to go and the review of eight accident and emergency departments in Dublin with a view to reducing them to four. Today, there are 390 people lying on trolleys at hospitals around the country, which is a disgrace.
Let Cinderella at it.
I laid the HSE service plan before the Oireachtas last week, as I am required to do by law. There is no question of the HSE plan being leaked. It was laid before the Oireachtas on 10 December 2008.
On technology, the famous PPARs initiated in 1995 by six health boards does not meet the requirements of a unified service. One of the difficulties with it was that it was not "specked" appropriately initially and the anticipated cost was not correct. Notwithstanding the experience with PPARs, we must not be frightened or run away from the need to invest in information communications technology within our health system.
The HSE spends €8 billion annually on pay and employs 70,000 people. Technology will be enormously beneficial in our ensuring we have in place an appropriate information and financial control mechanism. Any of the health systems which I have had an opportunity to view, and all of the Ministers with whom I have engaged, who have invested heavily in technology have reported huge efficiencies as a result.
Notwithstanding the inadequacies of PPARs, it did throw up the fact that there were more than 1,000 variations in work practices among those people covered by it. That is a fact.
At a cost of €180 million to the Exchequer.
Please allow the Minister to continue. I will call the Deputy again if possible.
As I stated, PPARs was initiated by a number of health boards in 1995 following the publication of the health strategy in 1994. It was felt by a number of health boards, including some hospitals, that we needed to invest in a payroll system. That payroll system, which later became known as PPARs, and which is currently operating in a large number of places, has brought to light many deficiencies, inadequacies and variations in work practices. Technology is important if we are to drive greater efficiency in the interest of patient care. I do not want the Deputy or anybody else to think we can operate a modern health service without investing considerably in technology.
The HSE is currently recruiting a director of ICT. Interviews in this regard are currently under way. This is important. There are new systems in place, involving the Departments of Health and Children and Finance, in respect of projects of this kind which require central approval.
The Minister said she laid the budget plan for the HSE before the House last Thursday yet, I have not seen it.
The service plan.
Where is it?
The Deputy can get a copy of it in the Library.
Should people not be advised of its availability?
I am not aware of the procedure in that regard. However, I did what I am required to do. It is a matter for the HSE to publish its plan.
All documents laid before the House are listed on the Order Paper published daily.
Perhaps the Minister will answer the following question. Some €180 million was spent on PPARs. We all accept there is need for modernisation of our information technology. The Minister continually speaks of value for money. How will she ensure we receive value for money this time and that we will not be faced with another fiasco, as happened on previous occasions? The Minister has held this portfolio for the past four years. It is hardly this morning she woke up and discovered this problem. If so, were she chief executive officer of any other organisation or corporate body, she would not be permitted to retain her position.
I have confidence in the chief executive officer of the HSE and its board. The famous PPARs was "specked" and procured under the old model delivered by health boards. It was not an appropriate model. What was "specked" at the time was completely inadequate for the task at hand, which is the reality. We know that. Clearly, we must learn from that experience because at the end of the day that was taxpayers' money, whether spent by a unified organisation or by individual health boards. Considerable progress has been made by the Health Service Executive with the assistance of expertise in respect of its information communication technology requirements. They are currently in discussion with my Department and the Department of Finance in regard to investment in this area during 2009.
