Richard Boyd Barrett
Question:6 Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach the State agencies for which he has responsibility; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [27362/11]
View answerTuesday, 25 October 2011
Questions (18, 19, 20)
Gerry Adams
Question:7 Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach his plans to reform the National Economic and Social Council. [29505/11]
View answerGerry Adams
Question:8 Deputy Gerry Adams asked the Taoiseach if he will provide information on the process of dialogue with the trade unions, the employers and the lead social partners which he aims to commence in November 2011; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29506/11]
View answerOral answers (38 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 8, inclusive, together.
The National Economic and Social Development Office, NESDO, is the only State agency under the aegis of my Department. The NESDO was established under the NESDO Act of 2006 and is the body corporate for the National Economic and Social Council, NESC. The role of the NESDO is to advise me on all strategic matters relevant to economic and social development in the State. The role of the NESC is to report to me on strategic issues relating to the efficient development of the economy and the achievement of social justice. The council also provides a forum for engagement between the Government and the social partners. The NESC has made a major contribution to Irish public policy over almost 40 years. I have high regard for the quality and rigour of its reports and analysis, based not just on excellent research but on the quality of the deliberation among its members. Successive Governments have recognised that and that Ireland's development requires the support and contribution of a wide range of groups — economic, social and environmental. I believe the council has the potential to continue to make an important contribution in the time ahead. In that regard I have asked it to focus on more immediate and shorter term issues where the experience and insights of members will be valuable, have more frequent shorter reports and reflect the varying or individual views of its members.
In addition, following the dissolution of Comhar, its sustainable development role will be integrated into the work of the council. In this way sustainable development can be integrated into research and action on the significant national challenges we are facing.
I believe that the NESC has an important role to play as the vehicle for engagement on economic, social and environmental issues. I also believe in the importance of social dialogue. In responding to parliamentary questions in this House on 11 October, I confirmed my intention to meet with social partner organisations as part of a wider process of ongoing social dialogue. The exact details and schedule of these meetings have not yet been finalised. I look forward to future contacts with those partners as part of the Government's efforts to ensure economic and social recovery. In addition the Tánaiste and I will attend a plenary session of the council each year.
I mentioned that NESDO is the corporate body for the NESC. The changes to the NESDO over the last year or so, such as the dissolution of two constituent bodies, mean that we must look again at the legislation to make sure we have the proper governance arrangements in place and to make sure that it properly reflects the role I envisage for the NESC. My Department is doing this at the moment.
I did not hear the beginning of the Taoiseach's response.
That is because the Deputy was talking.
Yes, because I was trying to ask a supplementary question on the earlier matter which I thought I was entitled to ask.
Does the Deputy want to ask a question?
Will the Deputy please proceed then?
There are other Deputies in this Chamber who have questions.
I understand that but I understood I was entitled to ask a supplementary question.
No. The Deputy is not entitled to ask a supplementary question. In case he is has any misunderstanding of the position, he asks a question and if he gets a reply to the question, that is it. If he asks a straight question and the answer is given to him, he is not entitled to ask a supplementary question.
Is it not up to me to decide whether——
No. It is not up to the Deputy, it is up to me——
——I am happy with the answer?
——because I have to chair this session. It is not a question of our having a debate at Question Time; the Deputy asks a question and he gets an answer.
I was not asking for a debate; I was asking for a supplementary.
Does the Deputy want to ask a supplementary question?
The Deputy is making headway now that he has obeyed the Ceann Comhairle.
I am not.
Will the Deputy please proceed?
I am deeply frustrated that I cannot ask a supplementary.
We have 25 minutes remaining for these questions and I ask the Deputy to proceed.
As I did not hear the beginning of the Taoiseach's answer, could he clarify if the National Economic and Social Council is the only State agency for which his Department is responsible? If that is the agency for which his Department is responsible, why was a question I put down to him some time ago asking him to comment on a report produced by the council passed to the Minister for Finance for reply? If we ask the Taoiseach questions about an agency for which his Department is responsible, he should have to answer those questions instead of batting them off to another Department for reply.
In respect of what the Taoiseach said about social dialogue, while I take on board his comments about not wanting to incur further costs for his Department or the taxpayer generally in terms of special advisers, might it not be an idea in some areas, particularly important ones such as health where there is a crisis, to have representatives of the INMO and of doctors and nurses on his subcommittee along with representatives from the HSE who might tell him that the reason there is a crisis in our hospitals is because the Government is massacring staff in terms of the number of staff and the budgets?
The Deputy asked a question in regard to State agencies. Will the Deputy please stick to the question?
The answer to the Deputy's question is as follows. The Deputy asked me if the National Economic and Social Development Office——
Council.
——is the only State agency under the aegis of my Department. The answer to that question is, "Yes". The Deputy also mentioned the importance of having people on the NESC who reflect particular sectors. For instance, under the community and voluntary pillar nominees there are representatives from Social Justice Ireland, INOU, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and the NYCI. The membership of the National Economic and Social Council covers a broad range of sectors and personnel of particular ability. As I said in my reply, the latter half of which I hope the Deputy heard, I value their individual presentations and encourage them to state their views when we meet, to have shorter reports and to reflect on the more short-term problems that the country faces in terms of this economy and social justice.
In respect of the report on the NESC that the Deputy mentioned, that deals with the broader details of the economy and the Department of Finance would have a particular interest in that.
Tá dhá cheist i mo ainm.
That is correct.
The Taoiseach spoke about short-term projects and ongoing social dialogue which I can only interpret as part of his clear statement previously that he wants to move away decisively from social partnership. He did not tell us how that process will be structured. Will the community and voluntary sectors be involved?
B'fhéidir go bhfuil mé mícheart faoi seo. Is cuimhin liom gur chur NESC moltaí chun cinn fá choinne cruthú oibre agus cothú fás eacnamaíochta. Ar mhol NESC gur chóir banc straitéiseach Rialtais a bhunú? Níl mé cinnte gur tharla sé sin, ach tá mé á úsáid mar chás. Cad a tharla leis na moltaí a cuireadh chun cinn?
An féidir leis an Teachta an cheist sin a chur arís? Níor chuala mé é go soiléir.
Gabh mo leithscéal. Is cuimhin liom — b'fhéidir go bhfuil mé mícheart — gur chur NESC moltaí chun cinn i dtaobh obair a chruthú, fás eacnamaíochta a chothú agus banc straitéiseach Rialtais nó Government strategic bank a bhunú. Ar tharla sé sin? Má tharla, cad a rinneadh leis na moltaí?
Tá a fhios agam gur chur NESC tuarascáil ar fáil faoi chúrsaí traenála agus buntáiste oibre do dhaoine atá ar chúrsaí leasa shóisialaigh. Tá na moltaí sin á phlé ag an Aire. Tá an cheart ag NESC an tuarascáil sin a chur ar fáil.
The NESC, for instance, covers the trade union pillar nominees, the business and employer organisation pillar nominees, the agriculture and farming organisation nominees, the community and the voluntary pillar nominees, the environmental pillar, and the Government and independent nominees from the ESRI, NUIG, Queen's University, Trinity College Dublin, Maynooth College and so on. The NESC reports are important and are considered by individual Ministers and Departments where they are relevant. I value the expressions of interest and proposals they put forward. It is not possible to adopt all of them but they are all valuable and I consider their work to be very useful.
The Taoiseach spoke two or three times about valuing the individual contributions. I can only deduce from that that he does not value the reports the NESC has put forward. If he moves away from social partnership, which I believe is his intention, how would the alternative process be structured?
I mentioned the quality of the debate among members, which is important. I also mentioned that the reports should reflect the varying individual views of the members and therefore when they meet us as a council I do not expect them to have all of that distilled into a few paragraphs stating that this is the considered view. If there are varying views within the council it is important to hear that. It is an opportunity for the different representative pillars on the council to give their view and ask that it be taken into account. There is a spectrum of views which is important for Ministers and myself to be able to acknowledge but politics is about making decisions on those views.
The answer to the Deputy's question is "Yes". They do excellent research and I value the deliberation that they have as a group dynamic, but I also respect the reflected individual views of the members.
In terms of the structure of the dialogue with the trade union movement, about which we asked some time back as well, it is not clear what that will be. The Tánaiste mentioned that there would be a structured dialogue with the social partners generally. I think the Taoiseach's position has been of a more informal kind of engagement. In the context of the dialogue to begin in November, will the Croke Park agreement be up for renegotiation or is it envisaged that it would be covered by that dialogue?
The Tánaiste set out the views here, with which I agree, to SIPTU on 5 October last. While the engagement with the social partners was a well-established part of the process of government over a number of years, we intend to initiate a process of dialogue and engagement with those who represented the social partners. I cannot give Deputy Martin the dates now, but I think I myself have arranged three meetings with IBEC, ICTU and the IFA over the next couple of weeks. I addressed the IBEC president's dinner on 22 June last and I met representatives of IBEC on 20 July last. The Tánaiste and I will attend at a plenary session once a year.
When we met both IBEC and the trade unions we made it perfectly clear that the lines of contact and connection to Government are very open. We are not going into the sort of structure that applied there for a long number of years but there is no blockage, to put it that way, on those who were in the social partnerships making contact with Government. That is an important part of the dialogue.
Deputy Martin asked will the Croke Park agreement be up for assessment. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is dealing with that and is in discussions on a regular basis about getting the full implementation of the Croke Park agreement, which, as Deputy Martin will be aware, is a central part of the troika agreement. That has been a challenging position for all concerned and the Minister is very active on that.