Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 21 November 2012
5. Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will outline the way the forecasted €2.25 billion cuts for Budget 2013 will be distributed across Government Departments; if he will outline the processes and analysis used to determine this distribution; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51921/12]
View answerIn the Comprehensive Expenditure Report 2012-14, CER, published in December last year, I set out the various elements of the Government's medium-term expenditure framework. A key element was the introduction of ministerial expenditure ceilings, which are three-year allocations of current expenditure to each Minister. The Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Bill 2012, which was published on 28 September, will when enacted provide the legislative change necessary to put these ceilings on a statutory basis.
The Government took account of a wide range of often competing considerations and policy priorities to decide on the balance between priorities in setting these parameters. The CER set out the main results of this process, while the individual papers produced by Departments give more detail on the analysis underpinning the final ceilings. These papers are available on my Department's website.
The ceilings published in the CER form the basis upon which the detailed 2013 expenditure allocations are being decided by the Government. The precise composition of the 2013 budgetary consolidation will be set out in the budgetary statements on 5 December. In this context, the aggregate levels of expenditure are split by reference to ministerial Votes and the detailed disbursement of the resources within their allocations is a matter for each Minister in accordance with overall agreed Government policy.
It is my intention to undertake a comprehensive expenditure review process every three years. However, I do not intend that the role of evaluation should come to a halt in the years between these large-scale formal expenditure reviews. Rather, the new public spending code introduced by my Department will ensure that ongoing evaluation becomes an integral part of expenditure policy.
The role of evaluation was further enhanced by the introduction earlier this year of the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES. The work of the service will support each Department in evaluating policy and expenditure options.
I draw the Deputy's attention to the new whole-of-year budgeting process that is currently under way. I discussed it with the Deputy at the committee meeting. All Dáil select committees have the opportunity to participate in the annual Estimates process in an ex ante fashion with Departments. This process introduces an important new dimension of accountability that will enhance the role and the policy relevance of the select committees.
I thank the Minister for his detailed response. I appreciate that he is trying to move in the right direction. I participated in the finance committee's examination of his Department. He will probably agree that it was useless. There was no accountability for the Department's increase of the CER by €88 million. The data we examined were not rigorous. My understanding is that the same frustrations were heard from the other Departments.
In February, the Minister stated that we had an open and more modern budgetary process that allowed the Dáil to be fully involved in expenditure policy. That is not the reality. Deputy McDonald asked a fundamental question about whether the Government will conduct an equality impact assessment of the budget. I have asked whether there will be a regulatory impact assessment, a gender impact assessment or a poverty impact assessment. The Minister did not answer my question.
As the Minister is aware, the OECD rates our budgetary process as the second worst in the developed world. In particular, it points out that the Parliament has no time to interrogate a budget before the latter is presented as a fait accompli by the Government. In two weeks time, the Minister and his colleague, the Minister for Finance, will address the Dáil, but that will be it. We score zero out of ten in that regard. The OECD also scores us zero out of ten in terms of the quality of information provided to allow us to interrogate the budget.
I appreciate that the Minister is trying to modernise an archaic, useless system. Specific to the upcoming budget, will there be a regulatory impact analysis, a gender impact assessment and a poverty impact assessment? If so, will we have them before the budget?
In our discussions, I have found the Deputy to be process-focused, that is, on regulatory impact assessments and so on. The Government has published ceilings of expenditure and, through the CER, set out policy options. We must select from these options to achieve the ceilings. This process does not require regulatory impact assessments or anything else in terms of the participation of Members of the Oireachtas. There is a marked reluctance by Members to drill down into the detail and, as I had hoped since the start of this year, consider the sum of money available, examine the policy options and recommend a number of them.
The Deputy promised to make a pre-budget submission. I undertake to examine it carefully. However, we are two weeks away from the budget. He needs to publish his submission sharply if it is to have an impact.
This is the first year that we have had this process. I agree with the Deputy that it has not been successful. I hope that, at the beginning of next year, committees can set out in any shape or form they like the data that they require. However, I do not want people to become absorbed in the process. Equality proofing and so on is important and will be done, but one must eventually get off the fence and recommend policy options to achieve the difficult financial objectives that we must meet.
We must meet them and I assure the Minister that I am not obsessed with process. I am obsessed with getting the right information. There is a large national protest of people with intellectual and physical disabilities and their carers. They are terrified that the Minister or his colleague, the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, might decide to cut a further €54 million from them. They do not know whether it will occur because there is no draft budget to interrogate.
In other countries, parliaments and citizens are given draft budgets three months before budget day. They take the form of technical appendices containing the governments' proposals and the impact of same on people with disabilities, people living in poverty and children who cannot get enough food. The parliaments and civic societies engage with the governments on the draft budgets. This is not the case in Ireland.
I am not interested in ticking boxes. I am interested in this Parliament being able to fulfil its constitutional role, which is to consider the Estimates. This is not the case currently.
I had hoped that the Deputy would have a more ambitious role than to critique someone else's proposals. When I was on that side of the House, I fought for parliamentarians to have the ability to table our own ideas. If the Deputy believes that the disability sector should be preserved, he should table alternatives that exclude it from cuts. This is what being a robust parliamentarian means.
In our budgetary documentation last year, we published the medium-term financial framework. We have updated it for the next three years. The Deputy knows the ceilings, how much money we have, the breakdown between tax and expenditure and the breakdown between current and capital expenditure. He should propose measures.
We also provided the Deputy with the comprehensive review data of all the options and the costings for them. If he wants any more, he should ask for them.
They are depressing options.
They are all bad options. Deputy Broughan is right but that is the awful state we are in. I am asking people, if they want Parliament to be Parliament, to make the decisions. They should not say this is what we should not do but they should say this is what we should do. Let us see the Deputy's proposals to meet the thresholds we are obliged by our funders to reach. As I said, I look forward to seeing Deputy Donnelly's draft submission so that I can see the policy options he is recommending.
