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Thursday, 17 Oct 2013

Other Questions

Child Benefit Appeals

Questions (6)

Róisín Shortall

Question:

6. Deputy Róisín Shortall asked the Minister for Social Protection the reason the decision to remove child benefit from a person (details supplied) in County Cavan has been upheld by the deciding officer despite the significant amount of evidence supporting this person's claim and the fact that an internal review of the case has found the social worker who wrote the letter on which the original decision was based was not in a position to make any comment on the case; and if she is satisfied with the current review process in the Department whereby the final say on whether to change an original decision rests with the original deciding officer regardless of the evidence available. [43834/13]

View answer

Oral answers (11 contributions)

This question relates to a child who was born in 1997. While payment of child benefit has moved between the parents over the intervening years, payment has been made continually in respect of the child since the month following his birth. I understand the principal residence of the child and the matter of who should receive the child benefit is under dispute between the parents in this case.

It should be noted that payment of child benefit is generally made to the mother. In circumstances in which a child resides part-time with both the mother and the father, payment is made to the parent with whom the child resides most of the time. In this case, payment of child benefit was originally made to the mother and this remained the case up to May 2011. At that time the child’s father made a claim for the benefit and following investigation it was decided that he should receive the payment. As a result, the payment was made to him from June 2011 until February 2013, when the child’s mother submitted a new child benefit claim. Inquiries about the length of time the child spent with each parent elicited conflicting information, so the deciding officer referred the case for investigation. The parties were interviewed by separate social welfare inspectors and both provided evidence to show their son resided with them most of the time. The deciding officer, having considered all available evidence, decided to award payment to the mother. The other person appealed this decision. As is routine practice, the file was referred back to the deciding officer for review. The deciding officer did not consider it necessary to revise the decision.

In subsequent representations, I understand Deputy Shortall raised concerns as to the weight attached to a supporting letter provided by a social worker. In light of her representations, a senior official undertook a full review of the papers. The review concluded that the social worker’s letter should be excluded from the evidence. On this basis, the deciding officer again reviewed all the evidence and concluded that the decision to pay the child benefit to the mother should stand. As both parents claim the child resides more than 50% of the time with them, the deciding officer has made a judgment that the child can be considered to reside at least 50% of the time with his mother.

I can confirm it is normal practice to refer back to the original deciding officer when a revised decision is to be considered, as happened in this case. This is now subject to an appeal to the independent Social Welfare Appeals Office.

I raised an individual case because I have serious concerns about the handling of this by the Department. These are separated parents, both of whom claim to be the principal carer of the child. When the Department found in favour of the mother I queried the decision and discovered it was based on a letter from a social worker which was on the file. The social worker had no professional role with the family. When I requested a review, senior staff accepted that the original decision was flawed. The file was then sent back to the original deciding officer, who upheld the original decision, as the Minister stated.

Two issues arise in this instance and both require attention. Will the Minister indicate what is the verification process for supporting documentation from professionals on the basis of which final decisions are made? The decision in this instance related to child benefit and had knock-on effects in the context of increases for a qualified child and a family income supplement payment. In the light of the change introduced in the budget, it will also have an impact in respect of the lone parent tax credit. This is a very important decision and there is a great deal of money involved. It only came to light that there was a letter from a social worker on the file after I had taken up the matter with someone at senior level within the Department. In circumstances where the actual handling of a case is being challenged, surely the review should be carried out by another deciding officer. There is a need for a policy change in this regard. The review in this case did not arise on foot of new documentation, it came about as a result of a flawed decision made by the original deciding officer. In that context, the review should be carried out and the final decision made by a different deciding officer.

Under social welfare law, deciding officers make independent judgments on the application of that law. Individual deciding officers are not subject to direction when making decisions. In other words, they cannot be directed as to what they should decide. A deciding officer can, of course, seek advice and consult others in order to ensure he or she provides a correct and fair decision. Where errors are made in law or in fact, where new evidence or facts have arisen or where there has been a relevant change in circumstances, another deciding officer has the legal power to revise the decision of the original officer. As the Deputy is aware, in practice child benefit is paid to the child's mother in all cases, except where the parents are separated and the father has responsibility for the full-time care of the child for more than 50% of the time. The regulations governing the scheme do not provide for the splitting of the payment between parties in cases of shared residency arrangements for the child. In the case in question, both parents claimed and produced evidence to the effect that the child was with each of them more than 50% of the time.

The Minister is not answering the question I asked.

Where there is a dispute, the deciding officer is obliged to make an extremely difficult decision. In this instance, each parent brought forward separate evidence indicating that the child was with them more than 50% of the time. Where a child spends more than 50% of his or her time with the mother, the practice has been to make the payment to her.

The Minister is ignoring circumstances where a decision is based on a flawed understanding of the case or a strange letter which appears in the file. Surely there is a need to refer a case of this nature to a different deciding officer. If it is referred back to the original officer, he or she will be required to admit that he or she made a mistake. I have serious concerns about this matter. Having tabled a number of parliamentary questions in respect of it, I discovered that, first, the file had gone missing and then that the social worker had disappeared. This matter raises some significant issues for the Department. It also gives rise to questions about the probity of some of the decisions made. In view of the serious nature of these matters, will the Minister refer the case to which I refer to the Secretary General of the Department in order that someone might consider it anew and carry out a full review of the circumstances involved?

In the aftermath of the Deputy's representations, a senior official undertook a full review of the papers relating to the case. The review concluded - as the Deputy has acknowledged - that the social worker's letter should be excluded from the evidence. On that basis, the deciding officer again reviewed all of the other evidence-----

The original deciding officer who made the mistake in the first instance.

Therefore, the Deputy is suggesting the case should not be referred back to the deciding officer who was involved in making the original decision. It is very difficult to make a decision in a case such as this, particularly as both parents produced evidence to support their claims. As the Deputy will appreciate, it is extremely difficult to achieve an outcome which is favourable to both parents in circumstances where they are in dispute with each other. The best interests of the child must be the prime consideration of the Department in the context of its actions based on the evidence. This matter is now the subject of an appeal.

Which will be costly and lengthy. A mistake has been made and it should be addressed.

Deciding officers have certain powers under the Social Welfare Acts and are required to act in a certain way. I sympathise with the Deputy in the context of the complexity of the case. As is the position in all separations where issues arise, it would be ideal if the parents could reach an agreement that would be in the best interests of their child.

National Internship Scheme Placements

Questions (7)

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

7. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Minister for Social Protection her views on the number of Government Departments that are making use of JobBridge interns with no hope of offering them employment due to the recruitment embargo and that almost 60% of JobBridge participants who undertook their internship in a public sector organisation did not progress into paid employment; and the steps she will take in response to same. [43367/13]

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Oral answers (15 contributions)

JobBridge is one of the key initiatives introduced to assist individuals to bridge the gap between unemployment and the world of work. As of 10 October, some 21,842 jobseekers had participated in the scheme, with 5,918 participants in active internships. In addition, 2,948 internship posts have been advertised and are available on the JobBridge website. It is important to highlight that participation in the scheme is voluntary for both jobseekers and host organisations. A key measure of the effectiveness of any scheme designed to provide a pathway into employment is the extent to which participants progress into employment within a short period following completion of their placement. In the past, a criticism made by the ESRI and the OECD was that the State did not perform a robust ex-post evaluation of scheme effectiveness and, as a consequence, ineffective schemes were allowed to continue in operation at a considerable cost to the Exchequer. I decided, therefore, to commission an independent evaluation of JobBridge to assess its effectiveness early in its lifecycle. I published the independent evaluation conducted by Indecon economic consultants earlier this year. The evaluation found that 61% of interns who finished placements secured employment within five months. These progression outcomes indicate that JobBridge is the best performing of all employment schemes and that it compares more than favourably with European averages for equivalent schemes. In the context of the evaluation, 89% of interns stated JobBridge had given them new skills, 88% stated they had gained quality work experience, 81% stated it had improved their chances of gaining employment, 81% stated it had improved their self-confidence, 80% stated it had helped them identify job opportunities and 76% stated it helped them to establish contacts and networks. These types of benefits accrue, regardless of whether an internship placement is within the public or the private sector.

The Department’s records indicate that 20% of all placements to date have been in the public sector. The Indecon evaluation found that 41.2% of interns who undertook their internships in public sector organisations progressed into paid employment with other organisations. This rate of progression exceeds that for other schemes such as the community employment scheme and Tú, and shows that the experience that interns gain in public sector host organisations enhances their CVs and facilitates them in gaining employment with other employers. I am satisfied, therefore, that public sector internships provide a valuable pathway to employment for many and I will continue to support such internships through the JobBridge scheme.

In the past the Minister has accused me of being opposed to JobBridge. Before she does so again, I wish to put it on the record that I have never opposed JobBridge per se. I have called for its reform and I wish all of those who get work from JobBridge or under their own steam well in those jobs.

However, I believe the Minister is a disgrace. She is turning her back on the unemployed, the unions and the Trades Council. She is adopting a right wing, workfare agenda. She is intent on making young and old people work for nothing, displacing paid jobs and reducing pay in other jobs. Is she aware that the Irish Congress of Trade Unions states that JobBridge in its current form depresses genuine job creation, decreases paid employment and undermines economic recovery? Is she also aware that the 61% statistic on achieving work which she quotes does not stand up to full scrutiny because it is not evident whether that work is full-time, permanent or contractual? It should not be forgotten that this is on the back of a free internship. The criticism in the question relates to Government Departments. It is an absolute disgrace, given that there is a public service recruitment embargo, that the State is using JobBridge to fill positions that should otherwise be filled by public servants.

JobBridge has been in operation for a little over two years. A total of 21,000 people have taken on a JobBridge internship. I commissioned the examination of how the scheme was working for people. We have extensive web interaction in real time with both the interns and the host organisations, so if there are problems we get onto them immediately. We also get many messages from people on social media sites. If they raise issues with us, we investigate them immediately.

Is the Deputy saying there should be no internships in the public sector? If that is what he is suggesting, I believe he is wrong. There is a great deal of experience, of a very high quality internship type, available in the public sector. It is for six or nine months and is for people who cannot get a foot in the labour market. They cannot get a job because they have no experience and they cannot get experience because they cannot get a job. The six or nine months' experience overcomes that problem, which I acknowledge is a particular feature of the recession. It is a response to the terrible situation I see, as somebody working in third level with many young people, in which people emerge with all sorts of qualifications from secondary and third level education and cannot get a job because they have no experience, but they cannot get experience because they cannot get a job. They are stuck in this catch-22. If the public sector can help in a careful way, that is appropriate.

The fact that the JobBridge steering committee is weighed down by departmental officials might be one of the reasons a number of people in JobBridge are in the public service. Why is there no trade union representative or representative of the unemployed on that steering committee? In contrast, an anti-union company which recently announced the lay-off of 280 paid workers has two representatives. Was the Minister not embarrassed when she announced that the head of that company, Mr. Martin Murphy-----

Sorry, Deputy; we do not use names in the Chamber. The Deputy has been here long enough to know that.

It is the chief executive officer of Hewlett Packard in Ireland. Anybody can Google his name and it is on the Department's website.

Yes, but the Deputy knows the rules as well as I do.

Why did the Minister appoint him to a jobs council at the same time as he was laying off 280 workers?

The principle of internship is definitely a good one, and I am sure JobBridge has been positive in some ways. However, it is easy to abuse. I know many highly qualified people who are involved in it.

A question, please.

Given that the OECD has pointed out that it is more of an employers' support than a workers' support, does the Minister not think that increasing the period from 12 months to 18 months is counterproductive in that regard?

There is a number of sectors in Ireland that are really important for employment opportunities. The IT sector is a major source of employment for Irish people and for people from other European countries coming to Ireland. In the context of the downturn in both construction and retail, it is odd that the Deputy would choose to make those comments. Across the Border, his party has been cock-a-hoop when employment expansion in the IT industry has been announced. As the Deputy knows, and I am sure he is familiar with business practices, in all IT companies there are periods when there are changes and reductions in one area of activity. The company the Deputy referred to has been expanding employment enormously in other areas and has many thousands of people employed in the greater Dublin area, Galway and Cork. That company is a major employer in Ireland and the Deputy should not indicate otherwise. It has been expanding its employment even though certain areas in IT companies change from time to time.

In response to Deputy Wallace, we changed the regulations to allow people to take on a further internship if, as a consequence of a first internship of six or nine months, they find they are not interested in that field. If a person finds an internship in an area in which he or she is interested, he or she will be allowed a second chance, as it were. That was a proposal from the interns in the survey by Indecon and it was a recommendation in the report. One can only do that repeat experience if it is in two different organisations. It is not meant to be a consecutive internship in a single organisation. That is not allowed. There are a small number of cases in which people find that the internship is not what they wish to do, but they would like a chance subsequently at another internship that they have identified as being of serious interest. It is only in such circumstances that we allow a repeat. It is not consecutive and it cannot be in the same organisation.

I must call Question No. 8.

Also, the key aspect of the internship programme is that, unlike in the United Kingdom, to which some references were made, internships in Ireland are voluntary. They are voluntary on the part of the host organisation and on the part of the person who participates. There is no compulsion involved. To be honest, I would not be keen on compulsion given the nature of the internship experience. It is about somebody going into an organisation to get work experience and being full of energy and enthusiasm. It is very different from some of the schemes one reads about in other jurisdictions.

There is compulsion in Tús.

Departmental Customer Charters

Questions (8)

Clare Daly

Question:

8. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Social Protection the steps she will take to ensure that the customer charter action plan of her Department is implemented in all local and district offices; and the steps that are open to those who believe it has been breached. [43679/13]

View answer

Oral answers (5 contributions)

The Department is committed to ensuring that a customer service ethos is embedded in everything it does and is embraced by everyone in the Department. Significant effort was made to ensure that the highest customer service standards are achieved and these standards are set out in the customer charter and developed further in the Customer Action Plan 2013-2015. The Department employs a range of mechanisms to measure and evaluate performance against the standards set out in the customer action plan. These include regular meetings with customers, stakeholders and staff to get feedback and suggestions on how the Department can improve its service provision and delivery.

As Minister, I regularly meet all of the organisations involved in advocating or service provision in social protection areas. The Department also employs dedicated resources within all business areas in the Department dedicated to the management of all comments and complaints received; the use of internal management information systems to inform customer service policies; and monitoring and evaluation of complaints received through the Department’s comments and complaints system. Senior management in the organisation review the customer action plan at regular intervals and measure its performance against the service standards. Achievements in service standards are reported in the Department’s annual report.

As Minister, I regard it as really important that the people who used the Department services get a good quality service. We have put major investment into clearing the backlog that I, as Minister, inherited in respect of areas such as domiciliary care allowance, family income supplement, applications for carers and applications for a number of other areas. We have cleared all of those backlogs and we are now working strongly to clear the backlog on disability. This takes place in the context of demand for the Department's services having exploded from the period of 2008 to date.

This was tabled by Deputy Clare Daly but both of us received phone calls from people, mainly from people who had not previously visited social welfare offices. Some people were surprised at being poorly treated when they went there. In some cases they felt patronised and demeaned. In some offices, there is a customer action plan and information is displayed on how people should be treated.

A question please, Deputy.

Is it possible to check that such notices are always displayed in the offices? It would be no harm if a circular was sent to people to remind staff that people coming in have not done anything wrong and should be treated with respect.

I am interested in hearing about any experience of poor service that does not meet the standards set out in the charter. Perhaps the Deputy is talking about service in a particular area and perhaps Deputy Wallace or Deputy Clare Daly can contact the manager of the office. We issue a large volume of payments and award entitlements to people. The Department processes some 87 million payment transactions a year, a huge volume of transactions. It is important that where there are complaints, we are made aware of them. I do not know if the Deputy is talking about a particular office and perhaps I will talk to him privately about it. At the moment, we are rolling out the new Intreo service offices. In the new offices, there is more privacy and there is room for people to sit down. There are new identity cards and automatic sign-in, which means business can be done more efficiently and in a more modern way.

We have also undertaken group engagement. New jobseekers are brought in in groups of 20. It is all about telling people what is available in terms of education. We get feedback from people thanking us for informing them of something they did not know about.

We have more offices to roll out and some of the offices leave much to be desired. I regularly visit offices around the country. The OPW are our agents to upgrade and refurbish the offices. Deputy Wallace is in the trade and it is taking three years to upgrade the offices. The Minister in Deputy Wallace's constituency, Deputy Brendan Howlin, has made available an extra €9 million to the OPW via the Department to carry out upgrades of the offices between this year and next year. Perhaps we can have a private discussion if the Deputy has a particular office in mind.

Written Answers follow Adjournment.
The Dáil adjourned at 6.15 p.m until 2 p.m on Tuesday, 22 October 2013.
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