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Mother and Baby Homes Inquiries

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 25 September 2014

Thursday, 25 September 2014

Questions (2)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

Question:

2. Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if he will advise Dáil Éireann of the terms of reference for the commission of investigation into the mother and baby homes and similar institutions that was to have been presented to the Members of Dáil Éireann by 30 June 2014, in advance of the summer recess; if he will explain the inordinate delay in the preparation and presentation of the said terms of reference; the reason he and his Department have not facilitated continued contact with opposing party spokespersons over the summer recess, as committed to by his predecessor and Department officials; the reason requests to resume these engagements have not been acceded to; if he will advise when the commission of investigation will get under way and the timeframe for completion of its work and reporting on its findings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35990/14]

View answer

Oral answers (6 contributions)

I seek to establish the current status of the terms of reference for the commission of investigation into the mother and baby homes and similar institutions. What institutions will be included? What is the timeframe for the commission to present its report? I am anxious to ensure a number of specific areas of address are included in the terms of reference.

I thank the Deputy for his question, and I have met with him on the issue. The Government is committed to establishing an effective commission of investigation into matters relating to mother and baby homes. Considerable progress has been achieved in this important task, including the publication of the interdepartmental group’s report and the announcement that Judge Yvonne Murphy will chair the independent statutory investigation.

Discussions are ongoing with the Attorney General and colleagues across Government on the terms of reference with a view to finalising our deliberations in early course. In parallel with this work, my Department is advancing the legislative and logistical arrangements required to establish the commission.

Given the breadth and scale of the issues involved and our experience of previous statutory inquiries, the importance of providing the commission with precise terms of reference should not be underestimated. The tasks to be undertaken and the appropriate range of methodologies to be utilised must be defined to ensure the commission is set up on a sound footing. The Deputies across the House are also very concerned about this. It is a complex undertaking and, as I explained in some detail to the House on 16 July, it is right to take the necessary time for drafting to ensure the commission can deliver on public expectations in a realistic and timely manner. To do otherwise would not be in the best interests of the mothers and children who were in these institutions nor would it serve the wider public interest.

In light of the significant progress achieved since 11 June, when this House passed a motion to establish a statutory investigation, I cannot accept the Deputy’s claim of an inordinate delay. Establishing an investigation which is capable of addressing these important matters effectively and in a sensitive and timely manner must be our primary concern. It is my intention to bring a memorandum to Government as quickly as possible setting out the proposed terms of reference and to return to the Houses with a draft order to establish the commission.

My predecessors and I have indicated the desire to achieve the widest possible consensus in this investigation. I acknowledge Deputy Ó Caoláin's constructive contributions to date in this regard. Given the complexity I referred to, my plan is for further engagement with Opposition spokespersons and other stakeholders as matters progress in the coming weeks to update them on the emerging issues and seek their further views. Such an inclusive approach will assist the Government in establishing an effective inquiry and I am confident that we can conclude this important process in a timely manner. My office will be in contact with the Deputy and others to make the necessary arrangements in order that we can all get the outcome we desire.

It is not timely and I do not underestimate the challenges involved. The Minister spoke of legislative and logistical challenges. Could he spell out exactly what these are in terms of the delay in the publication of the terms of reference? What years are to be covered from 1925 onwards? What institutions will be included? Will it include the Sisters of Bon Secours in Tuam and similar institutions, the Bethany Home and the Magdalen laundries? Will the Minister indicate clearly, in this first opportunity after the summer recess, exactly where this preparatory work is? Will it include address of the adoption practices, infant mortality rates, medical experimentation on children, burial of children in unmarked graves and many other issues we have highlighted to the Minister and his predecessors? This was not only a failure of religious institutions but of the State. We must also recognise that because of the societal pressures it was also a failure of communities and families. Since we last met, before the recess, what efforts have been employed to secure and protect all records? Have they been gathered and placed in a safe repository?

The Deputy will be well aware, as we all are, of the cost and duration of previous tribunals. We do not intend to put people through a long process of years before they get the answers they require and resolution they seek. My officials are consulting the Office of the Attorney General on draft wording. The challenge is to draft terms of reference that are inclusive enough to provide an understanding of the relevant issues but also precise enough to allow the commission to complete its work in a timely and cost-effective way. Our approach must have regard to the experience gained in conducting similar investigations, including directions on appropriate methodology for specific strands of the investigation. As well as working closely with officials, my predecessor, Deputy Charles Flanagan, met representatives of a number of key advocacy groups and church leaders, including the Adoption Rights Alliance, First Mothers Group, Bethany Survivors Group, Cúnamh, Adoption Loss and Archbishop Diarmuid Martin. I have also recently met Archbishop Michael Jackson of the Church of Ireland.

The timeframe for these questions does not allow for the searching that needs to take place here. The Minister has not answered the questions I asked about the legislative and logistical challenges he outlined in his initial response. What are we talking about here in real terms? The records are very important and of great concern. Have efforts been made to gather these and place them in safe custody? What is the position on the terms of reference for the commission of inquiry? Will it include the address of the various mother and baby homes, not only the Tuam institution and others, but also the Bethany Home and the Magdalen laundries? What practices will be addressed regarding the years that are to be focused on? Will the Minister clarify exactly which years are to be addressed in the investigation? We had a direct engagement with his predecessors, Deputies Frances Fitzgerald and Charles Flanagan, on these matters. There was an agreement. We made it very clear that we were available, willing and eager to engage throughout the summer recess and I made a number of requests for an opportunity to secure updates from the Minister and his Secretary General over the period, which have yet to be accommodated. It is anything but satisfactory.

I hope, in the interests of all concerned, that we will continue to co-operate to expedite this as quickly as possible and also to ensure the terms of reference are as comprehensive as possible. Many groups which have an interest are involved, and their interests must be represented. The Deputy has asked me to give specifics, but that would be to pre-empt the Department's work, which will come to a conclusion in the coming weeks. I ask the Deputy to keep his mind open. We will meet him again to discuss it, as we will with other members of the Opposition and other groups which have made representations.

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