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Gender Balance

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 22 October 2014

Wednesday, 22 October 2014

Questions (1)

Seán Ó Fearghaíl

Question:

1. Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl asked the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht if she is committed to gender equality on State boards under her remit; the reason the general scheme of the National Cultural Institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill 2014 does not include a strict gender guideline with regard to board appointments; her views that her direction over that institution as envisaged in the Bill is excessive; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [40302/14]

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Oral answers (6 contributions)

I am afraid that my first question relates to national cultural institutions and the boards thereof, but I suspect the Minister has heard enough about such institutions and their boards to last her a lifetime. Nonetheless, I raise the very serious and important matter of the proposed legislation pertaining to the National Concert Hall, NCH, and in particular, the lack of a proposal for clear gender balance on the board as well as what I would see as the excessive powers the legislation gives the Minister to interfere in the affairs of the NCH.

The programme for Government includes a commitment to take steps to ensure that all State boards have at least 40% of each gender. Nine of the 17 bodies funded from my Department's Vote group that currently have boards in place have already reached that target. I have developed an implementation plan to reaffirm and achieve the target of 40% of each gender on the remaining boards and will be working with all bodies to move towards 45% of each gender as the new target for gender equality. It may be noted, however, that in a number of boards certain appointments are made other than by way of Government or ministerial appointment, for example, on foot of nominations by other bodies, by way of elections or on an ex officio basis. Clearly, such circumstances can have an influence on the gender balance of the boards in question. I can assure the Deputy, however, that I am fully committed to further promoting gender equality across all of the bodies and agencies funded from my Department's Vote.

The general scheme of the national cultural institutions (National Concert Hall) Bill sets out that the Minister shall, to the greatest extent possible, ensure that there is an equitable balance between men and women in the membership of the board. As the Deputy will appreciate, there is a number of different ways in which this issue can be reflected in legislation and I remain open to considering, in the drafting of the text of the Bill, how best to deliver on this commitment to gender balance.

In general terms, the purpose of the Bill is to establish the National Concert Hall, NCH, as a statutory body and to put in place a governance framework that will provide for appropriate reporting and accounting to the Minister and onwards to the Oireachtas. The legislation must stand the test of time, enabling the NCH to fulfil its functions to promote and encourage the performance of music to the highest standards regardless of what Minister is in place.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

It is important to emphasise that artistic policy at the national cultural institutions has never been nor ever will be the remit of the Minister and this is guaranteed in the draft legislation currently being prepared. The general scheme provides that the Minister may issue general policy directions on matters such as pay policy and staffing but not artistic or curatorial matters. It also sets out the Minister's role in the statement of strategy and in the approval of staffing and borrowing by the NCH, among other things. I do not consider that these proposed provisions are an inappropriate intrusion into the business of the NCH, especially in the context of the significant level of State funding being provided to it. Indeed, they are broadly reflective of the approach to corporate governance adopted in other legislation enacted in recent years.

I am, of course, aware that the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht, of which the Deputy is a member, is currently engaged in pre-legislative scrutiny on the general scheme of the Bill. These issues will, no doubt, form part of the committee's considerations and I look forward to receiving its report in due course and to the further debate which will take place on these and other matters as the Bill proceeds through the legislative process.

I welcome the fact that the Minister has indicated a willingness to consider further the legislation as proposed. What we have before us at present states quite clearly that the Minister will "endeavour, to the greatest extent practicable" to achieve an equal balance between men and women on the NCH board. The phrase "endeavour, to the greatest extent practicable" has no legislative meaning. It is a pretty worthless commitment and is at variance with what the Minister has just said in terms of indicating a strong commitment to working towards gender balance. That commitment is not reflected in the text.

Additionally, the Bill as proposed provides that the board shall take policy directions from the Minister "in such a manner and at such intervals as the Minister may direct". I put it to the Minister that this allows for extraordinary potential to interfere in the affairs of a cultural institution.

I reiterate that I am absolutely committed to gender balance. It is important that there is strong representation of both genders on all boards because decision-making is much better when issues are viewed from different perspectives.

The legislation is at a very early stage and I am happy to engage with the committee on it. I am open to suggestions that will improve the legislation. I am not looking for control but I am looking for accountability and good corporate governance. I want to allow this important institution to continue to thrive and flourish while at the same time holding it accountable to the taxpayer, which is important given the level of funding it receives. I want to make it clear that the legislation is at an early stage and I am very open to listening to the suggestions and views of Oireachtas Members because at the end of day, we all want the best possible legislation that will protect the taxpayer.

Regrettably, what the Minister is saying to us today and what the general scheme of the Bill is saying are not one and the same thing. Why would the Minister want to be in a position to direct the board of the NCH? That the current or any future Minister should be in a position to direct the activities of the board is bizarre in the extreme. Indeed, it is the antithesis of how a government should be treating any national cultural institution. It also seems to me to be unprecedented, in the context of cultural legislation at least, that any draft plan or strategy would be exempt from the freedom of information process for five years, as the general scheme provides. Why would the plans or strategies of the NCH be exempt from the FOI process? Why would such a provision be included in the legislation? It makes no sense.

As I have already said, the general scheme provides that the Minister may issue general policy directions on matters such as pay policy and staffing but not artistic or curatorial matters. The Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht, of which the Deputy is a member, is currently engaged in pre-legislative scrutiny on the general scheme of the Bill. These issues will, no doubt, form part of the committee's report on the legislation. I look forward to receiving that report in due course. There will be much more debate on this legislation and I am very happy to take on board the different suggestions and ideas put forward by Deputies and Senators because at the end of the day, we all want an institution that is allowed to continue to thrive and flourish but which is also accountable to the taxpayer.

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