Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 27 November 2014
3. Deputy Finian McGrath asked the Minister for Education and Skills if she will support the integrity of the junior certificate for students by retaining the principle of having external examiners grade the examinations. [45414/14]
View answerWill the Minister for Education and Skills support the integrity of the junior certificate for students by retaining the principle of having externally examiners grade the examinations? I welcome the debate because we need a detailed debate in this area. The bottom line is that the Government wants the abolition of an independent State assessment. School-based assessments with teachers grading their pupils in State examinations will not work because it leaves out one major factor. The role of the teacher is to support, nurture and develop the pupil. They have a different and rather special relationship. This important aspect has been missing in the debate.
Let me be absolutely clear: the integrity of the existing junior certificate will be maintained and improved by my proposals.
It is essential that students are marked by their teachers to promote better student learning and improved student outcomes. School-based assessment empowers teachers to support the unique talents and skills of the students in their classrooms. It allows for a far more rounded picture of student achievement to emerge. What is assessed is valued; school-based assessment promotes a learning culture in schools which recognises and rewards skills that cannot readily be externally assessed. This, in turn, improves the validity and integrity of the assessment.
Parents and teachers have raised concerns with me about school-based certificates and I am happy to address those concerns by retaining the State certificate. However, State certification is not only about putting the harp on a certificate. It will be underpinned by the assurance that the procedures leading to the award are robust, including the school-based element.
The unions are questioning how standards will be maintained. The combination of a 60% examination set and marked by the SEC, combined with quality assurance by the SEC on the school-based elements, has allowed me to be confident about issuing State certificates. This reform is not about protecting systems; it is about improving standards.
The bottom line is that an independent outside examiner does not know where the pupil comes from. He does not whether the pupil is rich or poor, male or female. He is coming at it objectively. Teachers have led the charge for reform. School assessment and project work goes on every day in every school in Ireland. The Minister referred to the rationale and children dropping out of school. I worked in a disadvantaged school.
The best way to keep pupils in the system is to work, nurture and develop them, and build on the relationship. Seán O'Broin, as the principal of Kinsale Community School, saw his students reach great heights of achievement, particularly in the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition. He has seen the dividends of close application of hard academic slog and is a respected educationalist. He said, "Teachers correcting the school work component may jeopardise the public's trust in the integrity of the assessment." He hit the nail on the head. While everybody supports reform, the Minister must maintain the integrity of assessment. This is the issue, and parents see it coming down the line.
Although a written exam after three years can assess certain things, which we value, it cannot assess everything. The Deputy referred to the Young Scientist and Technology Exhibition. A written exam at the end of three years does not assess the kind of work we see at it. I am sure everybody here will have visited it and seen what these fantastic students are doing. They work together in groups, do project work, get lots of feedback from their teachers and produce interesting, creative projects. A written exam will not examine those achievements. If one gives no marks for something, there is pressure on schools not to spend too much time doing it. Assessments would contribute to students' marks, fully stood over by the State Examination Commission. I am not abolishing independent State assessment. I will continue to have the State independently providing these certificates. If one does not give some value to the ongoing assessment and the feedback involved, it has no value at the end of the year, there is pressure on the schools to spend less time doing these important things. Higher education lecturers value those skills when students come to third level. They want secondary students to get the opportunity to have these skills valued.
The Minister is a great woman for distracting us. She is misrepresenting most teachers and educationalists. The teachers support a move away from reliance on a terminal exam, and we all support that principle. The problem is the actual assessment. Take a small school in a village or parish. What about the parents who make their presence felt every day in the primary schools and micro-manage every aspect of their children’s lives from their social lives to who they sit beside at school? Some of us would call them pushy parents. Imagine the pressure on the local teacher if such a parent does not like the junior certificate result his or her child gets. Imagine the pressure on the teacher going to the shops or across the community. The Minister is missing out on a very important aspect, independent assessment where no parent can accuse a teacher of giving a preferential mark to his or her own child. This must be examined closely. It is a major problem in wider society. Pushy parents are out there. The Minister and I both know them. They come in and tell people what to do left, right and centre, and they could be a problem in the assessments.
Although I am not supposed to mention people who are not here, I will respond to Fintan O’Toole as well as the Deputy. Do we really so much mistrust the parents and teachers of Ireland that we believe this will happen?
It does happen, unfortunately.
If parents behaved like this, one would not be able to pick an underage team in any sport in the whole country. Let us not bring it down to that level. I trust the teachers and the parents. It will be good for the students. The students trust the teachers. Their association has said they want assessment by their own teachers. I ask that people look at this fairly, for all the students, not just for those who are good at written exams.
I never said that.
Many young people do not get the full benefit from the education system because we have not moved forward in this area. Again, I ask people to consider what is on offer and I urge that the strike does not go ahead.
There should be a debate.
A proper debate, yes.
