Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 7 May 2015
2. Deputy Pearse Doherty asked the Minister for Finance if he will establish a full investigation into the Siteserv deal and other issues at Irish Bank Resolution Corporation to which his Department has raised objections; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17768/15]
View answerI wish to raise the issue of Siteserv and the planned review by KPMG of the sale of that company. It is very clearly an issue that will not go away. Why should it? The Minister's attempt last night to fob off and defend the KPMG investigation into the sale, which KPMG had its fingerprints all over, is not getting public support.
It is important we get to the truth of all this. Can the Minister outline why he is so opposed to a commission of investigation? What are the reasons for his belief that a commission of investigation into the sale, about which his own Department has raised concerns, is not warranted?
It was announced on 23 April 2015 that I would be directing the special liquidators of IBRC to review certain transactions which occurred between 21 January 2009, the date of the nationalisation of IBRC, and 7 February 2013, the date of the appointment of the special liquidators to IBRC. The review will cover transactions that resulted in a capital loss to IBRC of at least €10 million during that period or are specifically identified by the special liquidator as likely to give rise to potential public concern in respect of the ultimate returns to the taxpayer. I am informed that the review will cover over 30 transactions.
On 27 April 2015, I formally announced the terms of reference for the review. A copy of the ministerial direction which includes the terms of reference can be found on the Department of Finance website. Retired High Court judge, Mr. Justice larfhlaith O'Neill, will monitor any actual or perceived conflict of interest with the review. The purpose of this review is to determine whether there is evidence of material deficiencies in IBRC's performance in respect of such transactions and related activities and management decisions and whether it can be concluded that the transactions were not commercially sound. I have asked that the special liquidators carry out this review and provide a report of their findings before 31 August 2015. Following this, I will make the report available to relevant committees of the Oireachtas.
It is important to note that the commission of this review and report is to serve the public interest in light of recent speculation and is not being undertaken as the result of any evidence that such deficiencies existed or that transactions were not commercially sound. The special liquidators are best placed to undertake such a review thoroughly and expeditiously, given their access to all books and records of IBRC, the resources at their disposal to conduct such a review and the power set out under the IBRC Act which allows me to make this direction in the public interest. As I have stated, in order to manage or mitigate against any actual or perceived conflicts of interest, I have directed, with the agreement of the special liquidators, that they engage retired High Court judge Mr. Justice larfhlaith O'Neill to monitor any actual or perceived conflict of interest with the review. I am confident that this will ensure that the review process is robust.
The Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform has requested a copy of the review upon completion. The review will be made available to the committee in line with the request.
I failed to hear why the Minister is so opposed to a commission of inquiry. He says he has instigated the review because of public concern about the sale, three years and two months after the issue was first raised in the Dáil. There remains public concern but that concern is not just about the sale - it is also about the review he has instigated. It is about the fact the Minister has asked the special liquidators from KPMG to investigate a transaction which KPMG had its fingerprints all over. KPMG, or people associated with it, has been involved in nearly every part of this transaction, whether in the past or the present. It was involved in the liquidation of Siteserv by the special liquidator of IBRC, it gave advice about the sale to directors of Siteserv and the company paid fees to KPMG for that advice. Does the Minister not realise that this will not garner public confidence? Can he explain to the Dáil why he is opposed to a commission of investigation that does not include KPMG reviewing a transaction in which it was involved?
Every fact about this issue has been put on the table by the Department of Finance and myself, whether by way of parliamentary questions or freedom of information requests made by Deputies. Not a single fact or piece of evidence has been brought forward by any of the people who are making third party allegations.
I see this as possibly the first step in an investigation. When KPMG liquidators have carried out the report and given it to me and after the Government has cleared it, I will send it to the relevant Dáil committees. I have already received a request from the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform and I have told it I will send the report to it expeditiously. I presume the Committee of Public Accounts will also look for a copy of the report and then it will be up to whoever adjudicates on who deals with work in the House to decide which committee will deal with it.
I will not inhibit the committees in any way in continuing with an investigation. If further action is required at that time, the Government will facilitate it. The Deputy can see this, as with many other such cases in the past, as a first step, a scoping exercise by the people who have all the data at their disposal. His concerns, and those of many other people, have been about perceived or actual conflicts of interest and I have dealt with that by appointing retired High Court judge Mr. Justice larfhlaith O'Neill and he will decide whether there are perceived or actual conflicts of interest.
The Minister says this is the first stage of an investigation and he mentioned the committees of this House. If one of those committees recommends a commission of investigation, will the Government facilitate that process after scrutiny of the KPMG review? He said the review would involve some 30 transactions. Can he confirm that every transaction that resulted in a loss of €10 million to the State will be investigated by KPMG? Will the review have the powers to look beyond the companies which traded on behalf of individuals to discover who the individuals were who bought shares in Siteserv around the time of the transaction?
The scope of this review is far too short. The Minister will know that others who bid for assets of IBRC while it was in liquidation by the special liquidator have raised concerns that not all financial information was available to them. The Racing Post transaction, for example, was one where an individual is on the record in the media as saying he withdrew from the auction because the information was not available. There is concern among the public about this and I ask the Minister and the Government to commit to facilitating a full commission of investigation in the event that a committee of this House recommends one.
The key issue of concern to a number of Deputies is over conflicts of interest. The modus operandi is that no institution will be involved in scrutinising itself. That is why the judge is involved. It is not a question of KPMG investigating 30 transactions. If KPMG has a perceived or actual conflict of interest, some other forensic accountants will be brought in to carry out that piece of the review and it is the role of the High Court judge to monitor the transactions.
My commitment is to send the report to the relevant committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas. I presume the committees will discuss it and we will see what is necessary after that but I will not pre-commit because the review has just commenced and we will wait for the results before we take further steps. The information will be shared with the relevant committees and if the Deputy is on one of those committees, he will be able to have his say on what happens next.
Will all transactions be examined?
We must move on to Question No. 3 in the name of Deputy Ruth Coppinger.
The question I asked was not answered.
The review will include 30 transactions of over €10 million.
Is that all of them?
There are others which may excite concern and they may be taken too.
I ask speakers to adhere to the time limits. It is unfair to other Deputies when their questions are not reached.
