Wednesday, 10 June 2015

Questions (4)

Charlie McConalogue

Question:

4. Deputy Charlie McConalogue asked the Minister for Education and Skills her views on the number of schools which had to close on 22 May 2015 due to their use as polling stations for the referendums; if she will provide details on the impact this has on lost school days; if she will agree to liaise with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to draw up a plan to find alternative venues for polling stations to lessen the disruption on schools; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [22323/15]

Oral answers (19 contributions)

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

The question asks, particularly in light of the recent referendums and the use, once more, of many primary schools across the country as polling stations, the Minister's views on the use of primary schools, the impact on the education system and the cost of losing out on a day's teaching as a result of schools being closed. How many schools were involved in polling activities? Will the Minister work with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to ensure that between now and the next general election, within the next year, there will be a full audit carried out to assess what community facilities are available to use as alternatives to primary schools? In the vast majority of instances, as a result of the development of community facilities, sports clubs and community halls over the past number of years, there are real alternatives available to the use of schools, which in the distant past were the only options in many communities. There are alternatives and it is important that we make every effort to ensure they are used.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

Returning officers are statutorily responsible for the conduct of elections and may, under electoral law, use school premises for this purpose. Schools that have been identified as polling stations do not require the approval of my Department to close on polling day and, accordingly, data in respect of the number of schools are not readily available within my Department. Overall responsibility for the running of elections and referenda is a matter for my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government.

I note that for many years there has been an ongoing campaign for polling to take place on Saturdays, which would prevent the loss of any school days. In light of this, the children's referendum was held on a Saturday, with 33.5% of eligible voters taking part. This was obviously a disappointing turnout, which raises further questions about the best day for polling. The most recent referendums took place on a Friday, with 60.5% of eligible voters taking part, the highest turnout in many years.

The establishment of an independent electoral commission will allow for a much more detailed analysis of electoral turnout on different days of the week across different jurisdictions. The commission will be best placed to advise on the most appropriate venues to be used as polling stations, and I look forward to engaging with the commission on the use of school premises for that purpose.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

The Minister does not need to set up or ask a commission for an opinion in order to make a decision on what she believes is the most practical place for a polling station. I am very disappointed in the reply she has given, as the Minister has really not engaged in any way on the question I put for consideration. She has diverted the issue to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, as well as county registrars, by saying it is their responsibility. The Minister has indicated it is not the concern of her Department as to whether schools close on polling day and county registrars can close schools if they wish. The Department does not even seem to take note of how many schools are closed on polling days, which is an absolution of departmental responsibilities of monitoring what schools are open. Even after the putting of this question, the Department has not decided to check how many schools were closed.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question?

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

In my rough estimation, it costs up to approximately €20 million per day to run our primary schools across the country. There have been seven referendums or elections since the last general election, with one polling day on a Saturday. At least half the primary schools, in my rough assessment, were closed across the country for use as polling stations. That would mean at least €70 million or €80 million would be the cost of lost school days but the Department has no interest in assessing it. From an educational perspective, there is no reason to close schools as there is viable alternative accommodation in every county. The Minister is ignoring this question from an educational perspective, which is unacceptable.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I did not say I had no interest.

I said a commission is being set up, and that will have the opportunity to examine the entire area. Something it should examine is whether there are alternative locations but in terms of the places in my constituency where voting takes place, I am not sure if there are alternative locations in every area for the number of polling booths that would be needed. For example, where I vote there are at least five polling stations within the one school. In terms of finding an alternative location where I live, I cannot think of any alternative to the school but I hope that will be an issue that can be examined.

Allowing polling to take place on a Saturday is probably a more viable alternative but that may pose a difficulty. It may have been the subject matter of the recent referendums but there was a turnout of 33% for one while the turnout for the other was 60%. I acknowledge there was a higher turnout for the marriage referendum than would normally be expected for a referendum but it may be more viable to consider using Saturdays as a date for referenda. That would be my personal opinion.

I understand my predecessor also spoke to the then Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government about the issue of identifying alternative venues and it is something I will certainly follow up on but there is not an easy answer to that because we have to achieve a balance between wanting people to have their democratic opportunity to vote and ensuring that children are not taken out of school unnecessarily. It is about getting that balance right, but there is not an easy answer to it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy McConalogue. Could we watch the clock please?

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

The Minister's answer is in no way acceptable. This is not a complicated problem. It may not be possible in her local polling station to find alternatives.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I am just giving that as an example but there are many others of which I am aware.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

That may be an example, and that is grand. In cases where there is not an alternative available there is no problem with the school closing but this problem does not require a commission to be established. It does not require putting forward the idea that this involves moving to Saturday polling instead. What is generally required is a proper audit and assessment in each area as to whether there is a suitable alternative venue available in each community and where that is the case, the local sports hall, GAA facilities, soccer club or parish hall should be used instead. I know of many in my constituency. In my local polling station there was one polling booth yet there were seven classrooms in the school all closed for that day. One of those rooms, the general purpose hall, was used yet 400 yards down the road, there was a community centre which had even more space available. That is the case in the vast majority of instances but the Minister is refusing to engage and grasp this nettle. She is standing over a situation where each time a referendum is held many schools, and she cannot even tell me the number but it is well over half of all primary schools, have to close down. That means that on election day those parents have to either find child care for their children for that day or take a day off school.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

We are ignoring that. Instead, the Minister is talking about considering having referenda on a Saturday or that the commission should consider it but she, as Minister for Education and Skills, is refusing to grasp this nettle and engage-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have to call the Minister now.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I am not refusing to grasp any nettle.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

She is. She should engage with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government and ensure there is real change and a real assessment so that this situation will not arise again.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have called the Minister.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I have engaged and will engage again with the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, and I am not refusing to grasp any nettle. In the rural areas the Deputy describes there may be alternative venues in various communities such as community halls, sports clubs and so on but in urban areas there is a large population in a smaller area more closely together. In terms of all the polling stations in my constituency, in most cases there is probably no alternative to the school. That is the reality. Should we then have some schools closing and others not closing, which is what might result?

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

That is the situation at the moment.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

This commission will be set up. That is the appropriate forum to deal with the issue. I will make representations to it in terms of the education side of it and we will try to ensure that, where possible, schools are not used for polling stations. The fact is that, ultimately, the responsibility is not mine. It lies within the other Department, and it has the authority to decide that a school is needed for a polling station. It is an issue we will address but there is no silver bullet to solve it.