Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 19 November 2015
6. Deputy Sean Fleming asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the number of new State bodies and agencies that have been established since February 2011; the number that are subject to a sunset clause and that are currently being planned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40603/15]
View answerI wish to ask the Minister the number of new State bodies and agencies that have been established since February 2011 that are subject to a sunset clause, or those that are currently being planned. I am not inquiring about the ones the Minister has abolished but about new agencies. I ask him to respond on that and make a statement on the matter.
In line with the public service reform plan, I have organised and reconfigured resources within my Department to establish the national shared service office. The office is responsible for delivering shared services projects in the Civil Service and for the operation of Civil Service shared service centres. As one of the key priorities set out in the public service reform plan, I established the Office of Government Procurement in July 2013.
The Government, as part of the sale of the lottery licence and as set out in the National Lottery Act 2013, established the Office of the Regulator of the National Lottery, which is under the remit of this Department. The overarching function of the regulator is to ensure that the national lottery is run with all due propriety, the interests of participants in the lottery are protected, and the long-term sustainability of the lottery is safeguarded. Subject to this, an additional function is to ensure that revenue for good causes is maximised.
As I have stated previously, State agencies play an important and legitimate part in implementing and advising on Government policy and delivering public services, including economic regulation, consumer protection, road safety, industrial relations and a host of other services in support of citizens and businesses. They are an established part of the modern state and will continue to feature prominently in the Irish administrative system. It is essential that this occurs in a structured and coherent manner, that it not repeat the unplanned and sporadic growth of the past and that agencies' impact and performance be understood, reviewed and managed.
One element in the updated code of practice for governance of State bodies includes a periodic critical review ensuring that the ongoing business case for State bodies, including those newly established, will be subject to periodic scrutiny and assessment.
I must address my comments to the Ceann Comhairle in the first instance. I asked the Minister the number of State agencies that have been established. He made no attempt to answer that. I am complaining to the Ceann Comhairle and I ask him to help me, as a Member, to get an answer on Question Time. I asked about the number of agencies subject to a sunset clause but the Minister chose not to even deal with the issue. To my first question this morning, on the Supplementary Estimates across various Departments, he made no attempt to answer.
I have tabled a couple of questions today and there has been no attempt whatsoever to answer them. What is the point in coming in here to listen to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform? When I asked him about additional expenditure in Supplementary Estimates across Departments - some of which are listed on the Order Paper today but without figures - he made no attempt to deal with it. On my second question, about the number of agencies, he has made no effort whatsoever to answer or deal with the issue of sunset clauses. Frankly, it is a waste of time asking this Minister questions because he is refusing to answer them. He either does not know the answer or is refusing to give it. Answer the question.
Let me deal with the two points made by the Deputy. On his first question, there are 13 Supplementary Estimates on the Order Paper. The rules of the House require that I do not pre-empt the discussion on Supplementary Estimates listed on the Order Paper.
The Minister never said that.
The Deputy knows that. He knows the Supplementary Estimates are listed on the Order Paper. The ones that are not on the Order Paper have not yet been dealt with by the Government. Thirteen of the 15-----
I ask the Minister to stick to the question.
The Ceann Comhairle works very hard to educate Deputies on the rules of the House but those who have been here a long time should know them.
On this issue, I have answered comprehensively on any agency within my ministerial remit. I am not answerable for every Minister in the Government. The normal procedure for the kind of information requested by the Deputy is to table a question to all Ministers that seeks information in tabular form. One does not ask individual Ministers for a cross-governmental answer to the these questions. Again, the rules of the House are crystal clear to the Deputy. He knows them well.
I thank the Minister for the reply. He is putting on the record, fairly and squarely, that he, as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, has no interest in dealing with these issues-----
I said no such thing.
-----or he is saying he has no authority to answer to the House on the number of State bodies that have been established.
What he said was that each Minister is responsible for his own area.
As the Deputy knows.
And I will put those questions to the Ministers.
To each Minister.
I asked specifically about sunset clauses. The Ceann Comhairle knows that, even on the second attempt to respond by the Minister, there was still no reference to the sunset clause issue. The phrase has not come out of the Minister's mouth here today. I expect that he will probably answer on the third attempt and I look forward to receiving that answer. The Minister is responsible for public expenditure and reform and the public service generally. He and the Taoiseach issued a document last year on how he was reforming the public service. If he is telling me he is not answerable for the public service other than for the few officials in his Department, he should say so and change the title of his Department to reflect his responsibilities.
The Deputy plays the game both ways. He knows the rules and normally asks questions seeking information in tabular form. I will happily answer questions on areas for which I am responsible. However, if the Deputy wants to ask specifically about legislation brought through this House to establish other agencies or bodies by my ministerial colleagues, he knows full well he must ask those Ministers. That is how this House has always operated. Therefore, let us not pretend the Deputy is in total ignorance as to how the House operates. He is a wily enough operator and knows full well that what I say is the case. I have answered in regard to the areas for which I have responsibility.
The shared service centres will be a permanent feature of public administration. They are proving to be very good. The Office of Government Procurement will be a permanent feature of public administration. There is a transformation in the way we do business and we are saving many hundreds of millions of euro in public procurement. The national lottery regulator will be a permanent feature for as long as the lotto operates.
