Deputy Brady would like to raise a point of order.
Tuesday, 21 February 2017
Questions (26, 29)
Oral answers (14 contributions)
Are Questions Nos. 26 and 29 being grouped together?
You are quite right. There will be only one introduction.
Willie O'Dea
Question:26. Deputy Willie O'Dea asked the Minister for Social Protection his views on the recently published survey on income and living conditions, SILC, data; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8532/17]
View answerJohn Brady
Question:29. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Social Protection the action he is taking in response to recently released figures on poverty rates in the survey on income and living conditions, SILC; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8704/17]
View answerThe introduction will be very short. I raised the question to ascertain the Government's response to the survey on income and living conditions, SILC, figures, which give details of poverty levels across various strands of society for the year 2015.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 and 29 together.
I welcome the latest Central Statistics Office, CSO, survey on income and living conditions results for 2015 which show improvements in living conditions and reductions in poverty overall. In 2015, incomes rose by 6.2%, mainly due to rising employment, the deprivation rate fell for the second year running, and 13,000 children were lifted out of consistent poverty. Ireland was more equal in 2015 in terms of the income distribution than at any time this decade.
Social transfers continued to perform strongly in reducing the at risk of poverty rate from 35% to 17%, representing a poverty reduction effect of 52%. Ireland remains the best performing EU member state in this regard.
However, the results also show that we have a long way to go to achieve the national social target for poverty reduction. While consistent poverty fell in 2014 and stabilised at 8.7% in 2015, a reduction of almost five percentage points would be required to meet the 2016 interim poverty target.
Given the continuing economic recovery throughout 2016 and measures introduced in budgets 2016 and 2017, I expect the figures for those years, when they become available, to show further progress. I will continue my work with my Government colleagues to ensure the economic recovery is experienced in all regions and by all families, households and individuals in the years to come.
The Government’s strategy for tackling poverty and social exclusion is set out in the National Action Plan for Social Inclusion. The plan identifies a wide range of targeted actions and interventions to achieve the overall objective of reducing consistent poverty. My Department will review the plan this year in consultation with relevant stakeholders.
I thank the Minister for his response. The problem is that when we have raised the issue of poverty, the Minister has said on a number of occasions that our figures were outdated. These figures are for the year before last, from a time when employment had increased quite significantly.
Despite that significant increase in employment, is the Minister disappointed that consistent poverty seems to have hardly moved between 2014 and 2015 from 8.85% down to 8.7%? The at-risk-of-poverty figure went from just over 17% to just under 17%. There was a marginal improvement in consistent child poverty from 12.7% to 11.5%. However, the at-risk-of-poverty figure for children showed very small movement from 20.3% to 19.5%.
The figures for consistent poverty for lone parents rose and the consistent poverty figure for people who were out of work due to disability or illness increased quite dramatically. Would the Minister agree with me that the increases in employment that we have seen have not given rise to a concomitant reduction in poverty figures, which says something about the quality of many of the jobs created?
I suppose I am disappointed to one extent that things are not improving faster than they are, but I am encouraged that there can be no doubt now that in 2015, living standards improved, poverty fell and the country became more equal. We have heard from other parties - parties of the left and the parties opposite - that that was not the truth. We have been fed the story that the recovery is not real, that poverty is not falling and that the country is becoming more unequal. Of course, we know from these independent CSO statistics that this narrative is false and not supported by the numbers, which show that in 2015, using the Gini coefficient, Ireland was more equal than at any time this decade. They show that consistent poverty is falling and incomes are rising. Even though the reduction in child poverty might only have lifted 13,000 children out of child poverty, if we continue on this course over the next five years we will have reduced child poverty be more than half - by 65,000 children.
It is good to see that we are making real progress and the Deputy will see even better results in the SILC report for 2016 and particularly for 2017 because of the budget that I was involved in helping to frame, which, as the Deputy will be aware, benefitted people in the lowest quintile the most. They are not just or particularly pensioners but people of working age who will receive an increase - albeit a modest one - in their incomes in a few weeks' time.
Just to put it into context, as well as the 13,000 children who were lifted out of poverty in 2015, the combined rate, that is, the number of people in consistent poverty and people at risk of poverty, who were lifted out of that category in 2015 was 162,000 people. Taking 162,000 people out of the broadest measure of poverty that is used is a step in the right direction. We might have taken 200,000 out last year - we do not have the numbers yet. It is definitely going in the right direction and it is good to see that the Government's economic policies are working, that we are creating jobs, making Ireland more equal in terms of income distribution and reducing poverty.
I note the Minister welcomes the findings of the SILC report. He referred to the overall increase in living conditions. However, he completely brushed over and failed to acknowledge that there is a serious problem with consistent poverty for lone parents, which has increased from 25% in 2014 to 26.2% in 2015. This has to be down to the disastrous changes that were introduced under the previous Fine Gael-Labour Government's watch, under the stewardship of the then Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton.
We have had poverty statistics after poverty statistics and no action. In the Minister's contribution he said a number of times that we should wait for next year's statistics. We have the current statistics which show that poverty levels among lone-parent families are on the rise. I put a straight question to the Minister and expect a straight answer. Does he agree with me that the increase in poverty levels facing lone-parent families is a direct result of the changes introduced by the previous Fine Gael-Labour Party Government? Does he believe it is acceptable that children in lone-parent families should be 3.5 times more likely to live in consistent poverty than a child in a two-parent family?
The straight question I would like to ask the Deputy is whether he would like to take back and stand corrected when it comes to the Sinn Féin narrative for the past two or three years that incomes are not improving, that living conditions are not improving and that poverty is not going down. If he wants to use these statistics against me, he cannot be selective about them. He cannot just use them when it suits him; he has to be consistent.
The statistics show consistent poverty down and deprivation down significantly from 29% to 25.5%. The at-risk-of-poverty rate is down. The number of children in poverty is down. Income inequality as measured by the Gini coefficient at 30.8% is the lowest since 2009. The whole argument Sinn Féin has made for the past few years is not supported by the facts.
The Deputy particularly zeroed in on the issue of lone parents as opposed to child poverty because, of course, that is down. When it comes to the statistics for lone parents, there is an increase in consistent poverty but there is a fall in the deprivation rate and a fall in the at-risk-of-poverty rate for this category. Of most interest is that the consistent poverty rate for lone parents who are in work falls by three quarters to 6.7%. The clear message there is that the best way to ensure that lone parents escape from poverty is not by reversing the reforms made by Deputy Burton when she was Minister, but rather by ensuring people are in work because when they are in work, the chances of them being in poverty goes down by three quarters. It disappoints me that Sinn Féin opposes encouraging lone parents to get into work when it is so obvious that that is what makes the most difference.
I call Deputy O'Dea for a short supplementary question.
Leaving the politics aside, is it not disappointing that the poverty figures are reducing so marginally? I obviously welcome any improvement, but is it not a major disappointment that they are reducing at such a slow rate?
The Minister mentioned that deprivation and at-risk-of-poverty rates for lone parents had fallen. Those figures have only fallen marginally - by 0.1% or 0.2%, that is, by one or two decimal points of 1%. Consistent poverty has increased, which is a cause for concern. Would the Minister not agree that there must be a connection between that and the changes introduced by the former Minister, Deputy Burton? The net effect of the changes introduced by her was to make it less attractive for lone parents to go to work, in other words, they would be less well off at work.
The rate of consistent poverty among people out of work due to illness or disability increased dramatically from 14.4% to 22.49%. The at-risk-of-poverty rates within that cohort increased from 25.2% to 34.81%. What are the reasons for that and what steps will the Minister take to alleviate it?
I ask Deputy Brady to be brief.
The Minister talked about statistics. I will select statistics that jump out at me and that raise serious concerns. Obviously, the Minister wants to talk about smashing the unemployment figures and the type of language he is good at. However, I will stick to the real statistics here - the statistics for which we are constantly told we must wait until the subsequent year. While the Minister talks about smashing the long-term unemployment rates, the statistics speak volumes. A total of 105,051 people in employment are living in poverty. More than 750,000 people are living on less than €230 a week. The Minister talks about Ireland being more equal now than at any point previously.
The only thing that says to me is that people are equal in poverty.
The Minister uses the term "smashing". I cringe when I hear that type of language coming from him because the statistics in the SILC report are clear evidence that the type of jobs the Government is creating are of the low-paid variety. Many employees in these jobs have to rely on family income supplement to allow them to go out to work. They are in precarious, part-time employment with zero-hour contracts. They are the figures and statistics over which the Minister is proud to stand.
I will ask one more question. What is the Minister doing, in tangible terms, for lone parents or for the 105,051 individuals who are employed but who are living on less than €230 a week? What is the Minister actually doing for those people?
I do not recall ever using the term "smashing" about any target. Perhaps it is in a Government press release or something but it is not a term I have used. Sooner or later, Sinn Féin will have to face up to the fact that the story it has been telling Irish people for the past couple of years is just not true and does not stand up to the statistical facts. What also came out today was the quarterly national household survey. What does the survey say about employment? It says that the rate of long-term unemployment is down to 3.6%. That is an extraordinarily positive result for the country. The Deputy's claim is that they are all part-time jobs. Here are the facts: full-time employment is up by 71,000 and part-time employment is down by 6,800. The Deputy says there is casualisation and that all these people are self-employed. However, the number of employees is up by 67,000. The number of self-employed people is barely up at all - it is only up by 200. The Deputy says they are all low-paid jobs but the Central Statistics Office says today that employment increased across all 14 sectors so the jobs are being created at all levels. There is a 9% increase in work in construction, which is reasonably well paid and there is a 5.7% increase in professional, scientific and technical activities, which is generally very well paid. Sooner or later, Sinn Féin will have to face up to the fact that the spin and nonsense it has been telling Irish people for the past couple of years are just not true.