Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 12 December 2017
48. Deputy Declan Breathnach asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the contingency plans in place to reopen Army barracks that were closed along the Border; his plans to reverse the decline in the Defence Forces to mitigate against increased smuggling activity; if his attention has been drawn to the fact that only two Army barracks remain near the border, at Bundoran and Dundalk; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52727/17]
View answer59. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans to open a new Army barracks in counties Cavan or Monaghan or the greater Border region in view of Brexit and the possible reintroduction of a hard border. [52877/17]
View answer79. Deputy Brendan Ryan asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he is examining strategies to reopen barracks along the border in the event of a hard Brexit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52904/17]
View answer82. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans for the reinstatement of troops in the Border counties in view of Brexit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52878/17]
View answerThe roles assigned to the Defence Forces in the White Paper on Defence include the provision of aid to the civil power, that is, providing assistance and support to the Garda Síochána when requested to do so, and assisting the Revenue Commissioners in the carrying out of their duties. We in Louth are fortunate to have Aiken Barracks and Gormanston Camp, but many of the Border counties have been denuded of Army barracks. My question refers to the need to have a Defence Forces presence in the region so that people feel safe and confident that help is available when needed.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 48, 59, 79 and 82 together.
As part of a whole-of-government approach, my Department is engaged in forward planning with the other Departments involved in addressing all issues relevant to the United Kingdom decision to exit the European Union.
Recruitment to the Defence Forces is at an historically high level. By the end of October, 702 personnel had been inducted into the forces in 2017. Investment in new equipment in respect of land, air and maritime capabilities is being pursued. A maintenance and upgrade programme has been entered into for 80 armoured personnel carrier, APC, vehicles at a cost of €55 million, exclusive of VAT, and contracts for a small number of armoured logistic and utility vehicles for force protection have been entered into this year at a cost of €11 million, exclusive of VAT. A tender competition is ongoing to replace the Cessna aircraft with three fixed-wing utility aircraft. The ship replacement programme has seen three new ships enter service since 2014 and a contract for a fourth ship due to enter service in 2018 has been placed, at a total cost of more than €250 million.
The UK's decision to leave the EU does not in itself give rise to additional Border control requirements at this time and, therefore, there is no reason to revisit earlier decisions on the closure of barracks. Those closures enhanced the operational readiness and deployability of Defence Forces personnel and, along with other measures, involved the redeployment of personnel from barracks, headquarters and administrative posts into front-line operational units. The recent progress on the first phase of Brexit negotiations gives encouragement regarding the resolution of Border issues.
Primary responsibility for the internal security of the State rests with the Minister for Justice and Equality and An Garda Síochána. Responsibility for the security aspect of Border control rests with An Garda Síochána, while the Revenue Commissioners have responsibilities relating to their particular mandate. As the Deputy noted, among the roles assigned to the Defence Forces in the White Paper on Defence is the provision of aid to the civil power, which, in practice, means to provide assistance and support to An Garda Síochána when requested to do so. The Defence Forces also provide support to the Revenue Commissioners.
I am satisfied that the Defence Forces have the resources available to them to fulfil all roles assigned by Government as set out in the White Paper.
The Minister of State is missing the point of the question I am asking. Nobody is seeking a militarised or nanny state. What I am proposing is that we have an Army presence along the Border which would leave communities feeling safer. We hear constantly in this House about the lack of resources in the Army and the Garda Síochána. It is about presence, visibility and a deterrent to crime. I referred specifically to smuggling in my question but this is also about the ongoing illegal activity that goes on in the Border region. We need an Army presence there to make people feel safer. That is what people want to see in terms of aid to their communities.
It is a matter for An Garda Síochána to request the assistance of the Defence Forces. Following the successful talks last week on the European stage and between the Government and its British counterpart, I do not foresee a need for members of the Defence Forces to be stationed once again along the Border. Nobody in this House wants to see that. If the support of the Defence Forces is required by An Garda Síochána, along the Border or anywhere else, it will be provided under the aid to the civil power function. The Garda Síochána and the Minister for Justice and Equality have responsibility for the security of the State. The Defence Forces work hand in hand with the Garda, whether in training exercises or otherwise, to assist in any eventuality that might arise. Everybody will be happy not to see the hard border that was being predicted prior to the successful negotiations last week.
Again, the Minister of State is wholly missing the point. I am not for one minute advocating militarisation or using the Army as a back-up to the State. I am talking about having a presence in communities. I am advocating for this in the context of barrack closures, including in Castleblayney and Cavan.
Bringing units of the Army into community facilities on a regular basis, even as part of the training process, would allow people to feel safer. I am satisfied that if a poll was taken on the issue of getting people out into the communities - not in an armed capacity, but as a back-up to the Army - we would solve a lot of the issues relating to burglaries and crime because when there is a such a back-up in place, it acts as a deterrent.
There are no plans to reopen any of the barracks that were closed during the recent reorganisation of the Defence Forces. I absolutely take the Deputy's comments on board but while the purpose of the Defence Forces is to protect the security of the State, it would be totally irresponsible to say that they have a role to play such as that suggested by the Deputy. The role of Defence Forces is to aid the civil power and assist An Garda Síochána. I do not believe that bringing members of the Defence Forces out on to the streets for security reasons would help in that regard; it would do quite the opposite. An Garda Síochána is doing a very fine job.
My colleague, Deputy Breathnach, has made a very reasonable suggestion. He is not for one second suggesting that we have total militarisation on our streets. Deputy Breathnach is merely suggesting a visibility and a presence against the backdrop of Brexit. Along the Cavan- Monaghan-Louth stretch of the 500 km long Border, businesses are especially vulnerable in the context of their exposure to smuggling. Our Defence Forces are truly missed in Cavan, Monaghan, Castleblaney and Cootehill, where, previously, troops had been stationed. The Minister of State referred to An Garda Síochána's duty and remit in this regard. In the Border region, the Garda Síochána is working against the backdrop of depleted resources. Gardaí do not have the capacity to do their job. There is also a lack of supervisory capacity. The Minister of State spoke about the Defence Forces not being needed in the area because An Garda Síochána can do its job. I am sorry to tell him that the reality in the Border area is very different.
As the Minister of State with responsibility for defence, it is my priority to ensure the operational capability of the Defence Forces is maintained to its greatest possible extent to enable the Army, the Air Corps and the Naval Service to carry out all of their roles as assigned by the Government. I have been assured by the Chief of Staff that, in providing aid to the civil power or in the day-to-day duties asked of them, Defence Forces personnel have the capability and the capacity to carry out their functions. The Deputy has highlighted her view that members of An Garda Síochána are struggling on the Border region-----
They do not have the numbers.
-----but that is a matter for the Minister for Justice and Equality. The Deputy should raise that matter with the Minister.
Absolutely, but the Minister of State made reference to An Garda Síochána.
There is time for another supplementary question.
It was the Minister of State who referred to the role of An Garda Síochána in this regard, not me. In light of the potential for smuggling along the Border, it would be wrong to say that An Garda Síochána can pick up the slack, particularly if there is to be no reinstatement of troops in the area. The reality is that the Garda is under-resourced and does not have the necessary manpower in place. Local Garda stations have closed all across the Border region, especially in counties Cavan and Monaghan. It is unfair of the Minister of State to say that I should raise the matter with the Minister for Justice and Equality. It was the Minister of State who referred to the role of An Garda Síochána. We have seen the closure of Army barracks and we have seen troops being obliged to leave their families and homes to work further afield. This is not just for normal work shifts; it is to stay further afield for longer periods.
I am disappointed to hear the Minister of State say that he does not have any specific plans to consider the reinstatement of troops. Deputy Breathnach quite rightly suggested that troops be deployed to community resource centres or other centres to show a visibility or a presence. That is a fair point. An Garda Síochána cannot do it alone - it would be the first to admit that - so why not deploy troops to do that job also?
I absolutely disagree with Deputy Niamh Smyth. If members of the Defence Forces were patrolling local communities across the Border region, it would totally send out the wrong message. Such a deployment would be absolutely and completely inappropriate. I am personally opposed to it. As already stated, if An Garda Síochána requests that members of the Defence Forces be deployed in order to aid the civil power, such a request would - like all requests - be considered. After the successful Brexit negotiations last week, I genuinely feel that we are in a space that I thought would be difficult to get to whereby there is not going to be a hard border and people, North and South, will be able to continue doing business in the way they have done in recent years. I remember when members of the Defence Forces were stationed on the southern side of the Border and British forces stationed on the northern side. It was not a pretty sight.
It was the Minister of State who made reference to patrolling. He is misinterpreting our proposal.
We are a totally new generation of people and I do not want my children or those of anybody else to have to remember the Defence Forces stationed on the Border.
The Minister of State must deal with the issue.
