Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 12 December 2017
51. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the steps being taken to reduce the number of persons in the Defence Forces in receipt of the family income supplement and other welfare supports; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52906/17]
View answer57. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans to address the specific issues of pay and conditions in the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52968/17]
View answer64. Deputy Brendan Ryan asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if there is a timetable for Defence Forces pay restoration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52900/17]
View answer70. Deputy Brendan Ryan asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if there will be an increase in the duty allowance or payments to Defence Forces personnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52901/17]
View answer83. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans to improve pay and conditions for members of the Permanent Defence Force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52973/17]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 51, 57, 64, 70 and 83 together.
As I said earlier in reply to a previous question, the pay of the Permanent Defence Force, similar to other areas within the public service, was reduced during the financial crisis. The reductions in pay were on a graduated scale with higher percentages being deducted from those on higher earnings. This action was one of the measures that it was necessary to take to stabilise the financial situation which faced the country at the beginning of this decade.
The Government appreciates the contribution made by all public servants, including members of the Permanent Defence Force, during the economic crisis. Under public service pay agreements, pay is being restored to public servants, including members of the Permanent Defence Force. Successful negotiations with the Permanent Defence Force representative associations have provided for pay increases under the Lansdowne Road agreement. These pay increases were weighted in favour of the lower paid.
PDFORRA signed up to the Lansdowne Road agreement in March 2017. The finalisation of negotiations under the agreement allowed for the commencement of the process for the implementation of pay increases and arrears, which have now been applied to the Permanent Defence Force. In addition, improved pay scales for general service recruits and privates who joined the Permanent Defence Force post-1 January 2013 were backdated to 1 July 2016 and paid in August 2017. Gross annual earnings for this cohort is €27,000, inclusive of military service allowance. This is a significant increase in pay, which was approximately €21,800 per annum prior to this agreement.
Family income supplement provides a means to supplement a family’s income, be its members employed in the public or private sector, having regard to combined family income and the number of dependent children. Pay levels in the public service, including the Defence Forces, are determined on an individual basis and are not weighted in accordance with family circumstances. Going forward, there is potential for further increases arising from the recent negotiations on the extension to the Lansdowne Road agreement. The public service stability agreement 2018-2020 contains proposals for increases in pay ranging from 6.2% to 7.4% over the lifetime of the agreement. The proposals have been presented for consideration to the Permanent Defence Force representative associations which participated in the negotiation process. They are subject to ballot by members of the associations. The agreement will bring undoubted benefits to members of the Permanent Defence Force. I encourage members of the Permanent Defence Force to ballot for acceptance, so that they may start to feel the benefits of the increases in pay arising from the agreement in early 2018.
My question was on what steps the Minister was taking to reduce the number of persons in the Defence Forces in receipt of family income supplement. If the Minister tells me he is happy that our Army is dependent on family income supplement, we are in serious trouble. In previous questions, he has repeatedly said he is committed to increasing the expenditure on defence and he acknowledges there is a crisis, with more people leaving the services than going into them. I understand that approximately 580 leave every year so when I ask what steps he is taking, the Minister might say what the Government is doing to address the crisis in addition to what has been agreed with unions or representative bodies. It seems to have any amount of money to spend on a European basis but not on basic salaries to lift basic conditions in the forces.
I remind the Deputy that fewer than 117 people, out of a total of 9,219 or 9,220 whole-time equivalent members, are in receipt of family income supplement in the Defence Forces. It is totally untrue to say there is a large number, or a high percentage, of people in the Defence Forces in receipt of family income supplement. This information is also in the public domain.
The Deputy referred to the large number of people leaving. The number is above average for the past number of years but there is always a high turnover in the Permanent Defence Force and it is nothing new in the Defence Forces. There is a budget for 9,500 personnel and I spelled out the increases we have given. I am not sure if the Deputy was listening but we went through a recession from 2011 to 2016. On this side of the House, we have to mind the pounds, shillings and pence and to act in a prudent way.
One thing I do is listen very carefully. My question related to family income supplement and other welfare supports. It is an absolute scandal that members of our Army have to resort to family income supplement and other welfare supports, at a time when there is no shortage of money to commit to the militarisation of Europe. I do not think people stood outside the Dáil last week, in the coldest of weather, just for the fun of it. They did so to tell us how difficult it was to survive on the money they are getting. Can the Minister stand over the fact that they are on minimum pay?
The Minister's answer referred to "117 customers" but it is unacceptable to refer to them as customers. They are households, families and people who are on family income supplement, not customers.
I did not use the word "customers".
No, you did not, but the word "customers" was used in the reply I received to the Dáil question. What steps has the Minister of State taken, other than what he has just outlined?
I outlined to the Deputy the pay increases. All elements of the public service were subjected to pay cuts during the financial crisis. On completion of recruit and three star training, newly qualified three star privates and their Naval Service equivalents can expect minimum gross annual earnings of €27,000, up from €21,800 last year. A newly qualified non-graduate entry second lieutenant can expect a minimum of €34,915 per annum after 15 months training, while a graduate entry lieutenant can expect a minimum of €39,860 per annum after 15 months training. The first point on the payscale for a corporal, including military service allowance, is €37,000. The first point on the payscale for a sergeant, including military service allowance, is €39,600.
With regard to family income supplement, fewer than 117 families are in receipt of family income supplement in the Defence Forces.
The Minister of State will recall that my colleague, Deputy Lisa Chambers, and myself at each meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, Trade and Defence when defence issues have been discussed have raised the need to improve the pay and conditions of members of the Permanent Defence Force. I cited examples of real hardship to families directly to the Minister of State where, unfortunately, the previous Government closed Dún Uí Neill Barracks in Cavan, which was the most modern army barracks in Europe and the only purpose-built barracks in Ireland. Those members were transferred initially to Athlone to Custume Barracks, but subsequently most of them have ended up serving in barracks in Dublin.
There is a cost on individual members travelling to their place of work. In many instances there may not be a second motor car in the household and there are extra costs when the member of the Permanent Defence Force is away at work and the spouse, wife or partner is at home caring for children. Real hardship has been inflicted on these people. There is a need for them to get an improvement in pay and conditions. They do not want to have their spouses or partners out on the streets. They want to be rewarded for the work they do in a very professional way. I come from two counties in the south of Ulster where we had the benefit of the protection of the Permanent Defence Force when paramilitary organisations were trying to bring down the State. They have always done us proud and we should reward those people for their work on behalf of all of us.
I am the first to recognise that when barracks closed during the reorganisation extra costs were incurred by members of the Defence Forces and I am not disputing this. Since I was appointed to this position in May 2016 I have asked that members of the Defence Forces are located as closely as possible to their homes and this is happening. A number of family initiatives have been introduced by the Chief of Staff and the general staff to comfort members of the Defence Forces. I am the first to recognise this. There have been real salary increases which I have stated and I do not want to state them again, during the Lansdowne Road agreement and the extended Lansdowne Road agreement and for post-2013 members of the Defence Forces whereby they received a €5,000 increase which was backdated. There has been a huge amount of increases.
I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I urge him to continue to engage with PDFORRA and other representative organisations to ensure the areas of conciliation and arbitration are dealt with. There are other issues apart from pay and conditions. I emphasise the need to ensure members doing us proud in their work on behalf of the State go home with a decent wage packet every week to meet the needs of their families so they do not have to have people out on the streets protesting on their behalf and seeking proper remuneration for a job they do very well in the most difficult circumstances. When there are difficulties in this country and abroad we call upon those people to rise to the task ahead. They work in difficult circumstances. They are away from home a lot of the time. All of us would pay quite rightly our commendation for the work they do abroad championing Irish foreign policy in awfully difficult circumstances. Those people should be properly rewarded for their work.
In pay restoration for all public servants anybody on less than €70,000 per year will have their pay fully restored and this is part of the legislation going through the Seanad at present and which went through the House last week. I engage regularly with the representative organisations PDFORRA and RACO. The report of the Public Service Pay Commission published in May 2017 highlighted the Defence Forces. There are areas in the Public Service Pay Commission that will sit next year on specialist pay. The health care sector and the Defence Forces are recognised as needing urgent attention. The Deputy can be absolutely assured I will continue to push that we show appreciation to members of the Defence Forces.
Not realising five questions were grouped, I wrongly gave a commitment to Deputy Broughan but I will keep my word. We will go straight to the reply and we will have a very short supplementary question.
