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Public Procurement Contracts

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 27 September 2018

Thursday, 27 September 2018

Questions (4)

Jan O'Sullivan

Question:

4. Deputy Jan O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government his views on comments by a public official on the cost of public procurement in the context of a housing project in Dublin which will cost nearly €500,000 per unit; if this will be examined as a matter of urgency in order that publicly-owned lands can be developed for social and affordable housing as speedily and cost-effectively as possible; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39228/18]

View answer

Oral answers (16 contributions)

I want to raise the issue of the comment by a public official on the cost of public procurement and the time public procurement takes in the context of a housing project in Dublin that will cost nearly €500,000 per unit.

St. Teresa’s Gardens, the housing project referred to by the Deputy, is a key regeneration project, the first phase of which will see the delivery of 54 new social housing homes. As the project is currently the subject of a tendering process, it would not be appropriate for me to comment at this time on the likely project costs. I understand this matter was discussed by the committee yesterday in respect of the same council official.

On the issue of public procurement, I can assure the Deputy that public procurement does not drive up the cost of construction projects. It is set in place to try to drive the cost down, to monitor costs and make sure we get the best value for taxpayers' money. Social housing projects funded by my Department, like all publicly-funded construction projects, must comply with the Government’s capital works management framework, the objectives of which are to ensure greater cost certainty, better value for money and financial accountability. I consider the competitive tendering process required by public procurement as being a cornerstone in achieving value for money and transparency in the use of public funds.

It should be noted that the regeneration projects, such as that referred to by the Deputy, move through a number of phases including initial master planning stage, demolition works, enabling works, refurbishment and consultation and construction more generally. These projects seek to address the causes of disadvantage in these communities through a holistic programme of physical, social and economic regeneration. By their very nature, regeneration projects are complex and can incur unavoidable additional costs, including demolition, site remediation, temporary rehousing and amenities such as playgrounds, pitches and so on. The public procurement process helps ensure that value for money is achieved in rebuilding and regenerating a community and there is no reason that cannot be achieved in a speedy and efficient manner.

I do not buy into this concept that the rules are slowing down projects. We have made a lot of changes to the processes and I have engaged a lot with local authority officials in the housing sector as has the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy. We are quite confident that our new system of delivery and the new timelines that are in place are not delaying projects. As quickly as local authorities can do the work, we can get it signed through in our Department as well.

As to the cost of this project, we were on site last week - we launched our report there - and this project is finally moving on. There will be a tender decision made in the next couple of days - in the next week or two - and it will hopefully move on from there. I cannot go into details on the price but certainly the price being talked about is way off what we have estimated it will be. The project involves a lot more than just building these houses.

The Minister of State is going to have to enlighten us all because he is in charge of this. Would it take, in the context of the housing emergency, eight weeks to get a proposal ready on the part of a county council? In terms of the Department, which has a lot more staff and expertise, would that take about six weeks? Could the Minister of State tell us if it is his view that his Department and the county council together can get this public procurement process done and dusted, and get builders etc. on site within approximately - let us double the time - 20 weeks?

As Minister of State, his job is to untangle the bureaucracy. We have county councils with flow charts. Accompanied by the flow charts, on the Minister of State's own departmental website, they look like a surrealistic painting. The reason I say "surreal" is because of the length of time it appears to be taking for public procurement, arising from the procedures of his Department, which is well resourced, and the county councils, to which the senior Minister has given a kicking recently, which the Minister of State has said was deserved. Can the Minister of State give us a timeline on how long the average public procurement process will last? Currently, the Minister of State is making people who are walking by all of the derelict sites feel utterly hopeless.

I want to be clear on this. One of the first things we decided to do in the Rebuilding Ireland plan was to change the policy in relation to the process of delivering housing projects, which under previous administrations, Governments, Ministers and parties was taking three, four or five years. We put a process in place, in conjunction with the local authority sector, that is in line with best practice and the commercial sector, so that when one looks out the window and sees a field or a site, one can go through all of the processes and be on that site now in 59 weeks.

Fifty nine weeks.

Can I finish, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle? The Minister and I wish-----

We agreed this morning that we would observe the time.

The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and I would be very happy if all involved could make this happen in 30 weeks. In some cases, it is possible to do it in 30 to 35 weeks.

In the private sector, if one asks a developer or builder today, and they look out and pick a new site and ask them how quickly they can be on site, they will say roughly 14 months to go through all the planning etc. We believe we can do it in 59 weeks. We have proven that. We want it done even faster with the resources that are there. I can assure the Deputy that the delays in our Department are dealt with. We have put an end to that and we can turn applications around quite quickly. The public procurement process, which is set down by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on capital projects, and in which the Deputy's colleague was involved, gets good value for money and is in place. It is a nine point process. We have it down to four stages and can turn this around quite quickly.

The notion that it would cost €500,000 per unit is wrong and not true and that was explained yesterday at the committee. The average cost for a social housing unit is in or around €200,000.

Mr. Brendan Kenny, the deputy chief executive of Dublin City Council, is well regarded by everybody who has an interest in housing over a very long period of time. He has suggested - I would seriously listen to him even if the Minister of State wanted to give him a kicking - that the cost for procurement is approximately €300,000 in the way the Minister of State's Department is running it.

Can the Minister of State sit down and untangle the bureaucratic steps? Could he produce the flow charts to us here in the Chamber?

If we all get pen and paper, I am sure we could merge and blend some of these steps. There was a time when Fine Gael's slogan in an election was to burn all of the quangos. Now, Fine Gael resorts simply to bureaucratic gobbledygook. There are people who know all about building and all the Minister of State is talking about are steps, and then he falls back on it being the Department of of Public Expenditure and Reform's fault. The Minister mentioned another Department and made a reference, I presume, to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. The Minister, Deputy Pascal Donohoe, has been in that Department for a while and Deputy Michael Noonan was in it before that. Can the Minister of State give us an answer?

The Deputy is forcing me into making this point to her. Previous housing Ministers from her own party had processes and positions in place that were gobbledygook, were red tape and took three, four, five and six years - ridiculous times. One of the first things we did was to get in there and change the process to get on site. I am not saying it is perfect. I would like to get it even faster but we have set out a target now, a timeline, that is available and can be followed.

What about Dominick Street?

I would be very happy if the Deputy could tell me where we could shave off more weeks but it is an agreed process, which is in line with the private sector as well, which claims to do all of these things really quickly. Our sector can now do it just as quickly.

Mr. Brendan Kenny attended the committee yesterday, and he did not blame our Department for delays.

I did not say he did.

I want to clarify it. The process is changed and I am quite happy to give the process to Deputy Burton. She can go through it and come back to me with her pen if she has any changes and I will be happy to look at it. We want to get on site more quickly - trust me. All that the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, has ever asked of local authorities is to be more urgent in delivering projects where they can. That is what we are trying to do and the process has changed. Trust me, it was gobbledygook before that.

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