Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 9 December 2021
85. Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the status of his Department’s work on curbing bogus self-employment, especially in the transport and haulage and construction sectors; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [60807/21]
View answerThe practice of bogus self-employment is absolutely disgusting. It is horrible for workers and it is disrespectful to taxpayers. I hope that no Member of this House would stand over it. What is the Department doing specifically to curb the rise of bogus self-employment? I would like the Minister to acknowledge that he at least knows that bogus self-employment is on the rise. We see it all around us.
The issue of false self-employment has been discussed many times, including at the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, subgroup on employment and enterprise in May. Officials from the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social Protection and the Workplace Relations Commission attended and explained their individual roles on enforcement and compliance in this area in respect of taxation, PRSI and employment rights. While there was some debate about the actual scale of the problem, there was general agreement that it is a complex issue. Although the data do not suggest that false self-employment is becoming more prevalent in Ireland, it was stressed that, regardless of the scale of the problem, steps must be taken to protect workers from exploitation. In that regard, the Department of Social Protection regularly carries out targeted investigations in certain sectors.
The revised code of practice on determining employment status was published by the Minister for Social Protection in July and reflects recent case law. Work has commenced on placing it on a legislative footing. There is ongoing engagement at official level and the issue is tabled for discussion again at the LEEF subgroup meeting on 13 December, which I will be attending, to see what further action can be taken.
The European Commission is expected to announce proposals on platform work this week, with a proposal for a directive from the directorate general for jobs and social rights and a set of guidelines from the directorate general for competition, featuring aspects such as employment status of platform workers, algorithms, cross-border work and taxation.
There is also expected to be a communication on decent work. We will consider these proposals in due course.
My question relates specifically to the haulage and construction sectors. At yesterday's committee meeting, we heard from representatives of the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs, who talked about the need to improve the numbers working in the haulage industry. I know the Minister of State is closely watching the situation at An Post, which, I have been informed, recently lost a very large contract for Amazon deliveries. I understand Amazon is saying it is going to do its own deliveries, but checking websites shows there are jobs available that I would put under the heading of bogus self-employment. They certainly do not amount to employment in the strictest sense of the word, although, on my reading of it, people will be treated like employees. We need a laser-like focus on this issue. There is a crisis in the haulage industry at the moment, as the Minister of State is well aware. We have a situation whereby these large companies are coming in and apparently setting the rules. Some of these jobs are advertised on indeed.com.
Thank you, Deputy. You were taking advantage of my distraction.
I encourage the Minister of State to take a look.
The precise number of incorrectly classified self-employed workers is not known. I accept the Deputy's anecdotal evidence in this regard but the most recent, pre-Covid, CSO labour force survey statistics from the first quarter of 2020 show the number of self-employed individuals in Ireland at the end of March 2020 stood at 331,600. This represents an increase over the year of 2.4%. However, the previous year had shown a decrease of 3.8%, indicating marginal fluctuation in the figures. While there is anecdotal evidence out there, the exact number of incorrectly classified self-employed workers is not known.
I agree with some of what the Deputy said. Bogus self-employment is wrong. It facilitates exploitation, distorts competition from a tendering perspective and leads to a loss of income for the State. That is why it has been receiving attention from the Government, was discussed at the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, last May and will be discussed again at the forum this coming Monday.
The Minister of State needs to look for where this is happening. Again, I encourage him to log on to indeed.com and have a look at the types of jobs being offered there. They are what would previously have been considered decent jobs. It is not an accident that there is a crisis in the haulage, transport and logistics sector at this time. One of the elements of that crisis is that these jobs are not attractive jobs for people to do. They are highly pressured and now it is a case of, "Have a pat on the back, there is no sick leave or anything else but, congratulations, you are an entrepreneur now." People have to provide their own vehicle but still must work to a roster. There is a great deal of that out there if one looks for it.
I ask the Minister of State to look into the loss of the large Amazon contract by An Post. It is a huge loss. Amazon says it will provide its own drivers but it is not doing so. If he looks at the company's website, he will see how many people it directly employs, notwithstanding the fact there are people who are, in effect, working for it. If he is not prepared to quantify the scale of this problem, we are not going to be able to deal with it.
The Deputy continuously refers to the haulage industry, which I am aware is having difficulty in recruiting drivers. However, having engaged with the industry, I also know there are haulage companies that are offering very good terms and conditions of employment and they, too, are having serious difficulty recruiting staff. It is unfair to say the reason there is a difficulty in the haulage industry is that everybody is expecting hauliers to be self-employed. That is simply not the case and it is not factually accurate.
I concur with the Deputy that there is anecdotal evidence of an issue in this regard. We need to strengthen the data and evidence and ensure this issue is tackled, because it is wrong from an exploitation perspective and in terms of loss of earning to the State and, in addition, it distorts competition when legitimate companies are hiring people legitimately and paying their taxes but are unable to compete. That is why the matter will be on the agenda next Monday at LEEF.
