Bríd Smith
Question:94. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications the progress that is being made on sectoral carbon emissions limits; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28374/22]
View answerThursday, 2 June 2022
Questions (94)
Oral answers (11 contributions)
I will pay attention to the number of times I come in this time.
I am watching the Deputy. I will be timing her when she speaks.
Okay. I will follow up on an earlier line of argument in the context of how we are falling short of our commitments in respect of our emissions reduction targets. Yesterday’s EPA report shows that we are falling well short of what is in the climate action plan, which is law. Friends of the Earth issued a number of statements yesterday and did a very good job in pointing out many problems that exist, including that coal use has increased to meet growing electricity demand. That demand comes, in particular, data centres. Will the Minister make a statement on how we are going to reduce our emissions?
The main reason coal use increased is because the price of gas went up so high that coal came in earlier on the merit order. We are also in a very tight situation in terms of power generation, not only because of data centres but also as a result of a variety of other issues.
I attended and addressed at the EPA conference yesterday. I said that, critically, the response is in the establishment of six acceleration teams. One team would work on each of the following: the development of offshore wind; the development of sustainable mobility; the development of heating solutions, some of which were mentioned earlier; the acceleration of a just transition and the statutory commission; the communication of this climate issue; and, most importantly, the examination of how we develop and accelerate a land-use review that optimises matters in the context of rural development, decarbonisation, biodiversity restoration and the reduction of pollution.
We can and will meet these targets. We have to do it not just for the moral obligation and because we have national targets, but also because they are European targets. There are slight variations to different accounting rules, but the basic trend and direction are clear. The European and Irish economies are going green. That has to be done for security, health and environmental reasons, but also because such economies are more stable and represent a better investment. It will take time to ramp up. There are difficulties at local political level when making particular investment decisions. I refer, for example, to decisions relating to reallocating road space, the delivery of the sort of new forestry we need and a range of other matters.
Data centres will have to live within the climate limits. Everyone will. Every Department will have to go to the maximum of the ranges that we set out within the carbon budget this House discussed in the context of the sectoral targets. That is the scale of the collective leap needed. No one is exempt or will have an opt-out. No industry, data centres included, can see its future without living within those limits. I echo what Deputy Leddin said; that cannot be our only focus. We must address, as the EPA did yesterday, the real challenge we have in transport, agriculture and energy use. Transport and agriculture are the ones in respect of which we have to apply political pressure, attention and focus in order to facilitate a switch to a better way, which is what we can do.
The emphasis here is on what you choose to pick out of it. Friends of the Earth is right. The amount of energy from the national grid used by data centres is absolutely shocking. It currently stands at around 14% and is set to rise to 30% by 2030. These kind of figures are unbelievable. The Minister seems to live in a fantastical world where, on the one hand, the Chair of the climate committee believes that we need more data centres if we have no more renewables but where, on the other, the problem is cows and cars. The Minister needs to look at the facts. There is a real problem in that we cannot attempt to reach our targets if we continue with this policy. New Fortress Energy is distributing leaflets around Shannon quoting the Minister and others. It thinks it can convince the population that it is doing the right thing. We are on a hiding to nothing because lots of people are going to make lots of profits out of this crisis. We have to call a halt to this. Let us be absolutely clear: responsibility for that rests on the Minister's shoulders. The policy of promoting data centres, on the one hand, and saying, “Nothing to see here, move on”, on the other, is absolutely hypocritical.
No one is saying that. The Deputy should recognise that no new data centres have been approved since September 2020. I have been very clear. EirGrid and the CRU have both recognised that in terms of the development of that industry. Digital industries here employ more than 140,000 people and we need to hold on to those jobs. The industry recognises that, as EirGrid, CRU and I, as Minister, have clearly stated, it has to live within the climate limits.
It is true that the scale of the change we need to make is very challenging. We have an immediate challenge in terms of a tight power supply. However, there are signs that people want to make this change and be part of the solution. They see it as a better way forward. It is happening in how we are retrofitting buildings. The SEAI plans introduced in February are starting to be delivered. Deputy O’Rourke and I disagreed on the numbers. For example, we have pretty much reached the goal of 400 warmer homes per month. I could pick numerous other examples whereby in transport, agriculture and energy, we are starting to make the switch. I think the Irish people want that. Our job is to focus on where the real challenge lies.
I will sum matters up by saying that any attempt to develop an LNG terminal in this country will be met with the ire of the climate movement that the Minister once represented. I feel he will let the members of that movement down in vast numbers if this development goes ahead. It cannot just be down to an energy review and An Bord Pleanála; it has to be down to our national and global climate commitments and obligations. If we have power outages because of the data centres taking too much power from our national grid, then the policy we have adopted is insane. Again, responsibility in that regard rests on the Minister’s shoulders. He is not representing the youth of this country who came out and marched in the thousands. When you look at what is happening across the globe, for example, in India, Africa and Australia, you can see that people are terrified by the knowledge of what is coming down the track. If sectoral budgets support data centre expansion and if the Minister leaves the renewable energy market to the private sector, we are going to fail. We have to be very clear: no LNG terminal, no private market in renewable energy and an end to the proliferation of data centres.
I ask the Deputies to keep it brief. There are others who have been sitting in the House since the start and who are still waiting to ask their questions.
As a long-time supporter of renewable energy and tapping into all resources in that regard, I would point out the necessity, as the Minister did, to ensure that we have a balanced approach and achieve one before we lose the other, otherwise we could find ourselves in the midst of a full energy shortage similar to those that have been experienced in other parts of the world.
I thank the Acting Chair for letting me in again. I recognise that I have spoken a few times. I just have to correct the claim that was made a few minutes ago that I, as Chair of the joint committee, believe we should have more data centres. I said that the proposed moratorium in law is a very blunt instrument.
There is an effective moratorium in place as it is. There has not been a data centre connection for the past two years. I just wanted to correct the record on that point. I thank the Acting Chairman.
The Climate Action Plan 2021 sets out where we are going. The plan will be revised and assessed this autumn. We learn by doing. This will make for a better country. Waving fingers at or blaming people is no good. Doing this as a device of politics whereby someone is identified as being to blame or having responsibility does not work.
This country is well placed to make the leap. One of the reasons for this is that in recent years we have worked in a collaborative and collective way and recognised that where there are hard decisions to be made, we will make them because at least it is collective. They will be hard decisions, particularly, as I have said, in respect of transport and the need to reallocate road space. In truth, where I find real challenge is in that area.
There will also be hard decisions - but, I believe, the right ones - in the areas of agriculture, forestry and land use. We have a real issue with land use because the figures issued yesterday show that it is a further source of rather than a sink for carbon. That is also the case for industry. Certain industries are going to find it hard and will have to have to adapt and accommodate to the climate challenge. On this side of the House and in our party, we will show real leadership in standing up for what we have always stood up for, namely, ecological justice matched by social justice on the part of government, both local and central, and the Opposition, which has a role to play.