John Brady
Question:70. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Defence if he will initiate the recording of hours worked by members of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49411/22]
View answerThursday, 6 October 2022
Questions (70)
Oral answers (8 contributions)
Will the Minister initiate a proper and accurate process of recording the hours worked by members of the Defence Forces?
As the Deputy will be aware, the Defence Forces are currently excluded from the provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997, which transposed the EU working time directive into Irish law. However, the Government has committed to amending this Act to bring both the Defence Forces and An Garda Síochána within the scope of its provisions, where appropriate.
Significant work has been undertaken by military management, which has determined that a high percentage of the normal everyday work of the Defence Forces is in compliance with the working time directive. However, it has also been determined that some activities may require an exemption or a derogation due to their specific nature.
Extensive deliberations by my officials and military management on these important matters have been informed by the interpretation of recent European case law on military service as well as the fundamental requirement to ensure that rights are afforded to serving members, while ensuring the Defence Forces can continue to fulfil their essential State functions.
As the Deputy will agree, a robust time and attendance system is also an essential element in ensuring that the provisions of the working time directive are properly afforded to serving members of the Defence Forces and this is a priority. I am advised by the military authorities that a field study was conducted in July 2021 to determine the feasibility of utilising the existing personnel management system time and attendance module to record working time in the Defence Forces. A number of units across the Defence Forces were selected to participate in this study during which they were required to record working time over a four-week period. Among its objectives, the field study aimed to inform decisions regarding future implementation of the working time directive in the Defence Forces and to identify possible further developments of the personnel management system time and attendance module to facilitate implementation of the working time directive. The field study findings continue to be examined by the military authorities with a view to ensuring a capacity to efficiently record hours worked by members of the Defence Forces. In the meantime, my officials are engaging with military management on the possibility of applying an interim enhanced time recording measure, which was piloted in 2021, without prejudice to the outcome of the ongoing process in preparing for the implementation of the working time directive within the Defence Forces. The short answer to the Deputy's question is that work is being done on this and we recognise that more work has to be done.
As the Minister will be aware, the working time directive is a major issue of concern for members of the Defence Forces and their representative bodies. It is an issue that has been consistently raised. The current shortages within the Defence Forces have put massive pressure on existing members who, in some instances, are double-jobbing and triple-jobbing. In some instances, this is also leading to mandatory selection for overseas duties. It is putting members under serious pressure.
The Minister stated that a field study was conducted in 2021, which I welcome. Will the findings of that study be made public and have they been shared with the representative bodies of members of the Defence Forces? It is an issue of serious concern and probably the fundamental issue when it comes to pay and retention within the Defence Forces. It needs to be addressed in full.
We are now, I hope, at the closing stages of finalising how we will implement the working time directive within the Defence Forces and the amending changes we have to make to the Act to reflect that. A subcommittee of the defence conciliation and arbitration council, comprised of the representative associations and military and civil management, was established to discuss matters relating to the implementation of the working time directive, where appropriate. It is having meetings now to try to conclude how we get this balance right between, on one hand, applying the working time directive, where appropriate, while, at the same time, ensuring the Defence Forces can operate efficiently as military whether it is at the Golan Heights or on the deck of a naval ship patrolling the west coast. I hope we can agree a consensus on what exceptions or derogations need to be made to the working time directive for military service, in certain circumstances, and also apply the directive to all other areas where derogations are not justified. What I want and hope to get from the subcommittee, that is, senior management in the Defence Forces, my own Department and representative bodies, is a series of recommendations on which I can sign off in the not too distant future in order that we can get on with amending the legislation and ensuring the working time directive applies, as appropriate, to the Defence Forces.
Part of that, as the Deputy knows, will be the ability to measure working time within the Defence Forces and I recognise that we have to have a credible system to do that. We will put a credible system in place and I am happy to work with the representative bodies to make sure they are happy with that as well.
I ask again about the field study that was carried out. Could the findings be made public? I would be interested in seeing them and I have no reason to doubt that the study will bear out the information members of the Defence Forces have given and that in many circumstances they are working 60 or 70 hours per week. At a meeting of the joint committee the other day, the Minister spoke about derogations and exemptions from the working time directive and he has touched on that again this morning. He stated at the committee that the representative bodies were fully supportive of the need for those exemptions and derogations. While he talks about the sub-committee, I want to talk about the consultations with the representative bodies proper with regard to those exemptions. Is the Minister saying they are fully supportive of the need for derogations and exemptions? I ask for specifics on what exemptions are being looked at.
They have not been agreed yet, so the representative bodies cannot be fully supportive of something that has not been agreed yet.
That is what the Minister said in the committee.
That is why we have a sub-committee in place. We have asked the senior management - the Chief of Staff and his team - to make recommendations on what they see as necessary in terms of exemptions and derogations from the working time directive to allow the military to function in certain circumstances. We have an ongoing process of consulting the representatives associations, which I suspect will have different perspectives on where those derogations should and should not be applied. We do not have agreement on that yet, which is why we have a process in place to try to find agreement. I have spoken to PDFORRA and the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, about this and they understand the structure within which we are trying to work. Ultimately, I will have to make a final decision. I hope we will be able to reach a consensus between management, the Department and the representative bodies on how the working time directive will apply. If we cannot get agreement, I will have to make decisions and we will move ahead on the basis of those decisions. There is a process under way that needs to conclude first. I will get recommendations on the back of that and we will take the matter from there.
Question No. 71 taken with Question No. 68.