Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 18 April 2023
36. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Justice in light of recent reports into the Irish Defence Forces and the London Metropolitan Police, if he will initiate a comprehensive review of institutional and cultural practices in An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service to ensure no such issues exist in these forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18032/23]
View answerIn light of recent reports into the Irish Defence Forces and the London Metropolitan Police, will the Minister initiate a comprehensive review of institutional and cultural practices in An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service to ensure that no such issues exist in these forces?
I thank the Deputy for quite rightly raising this important matter. It is important that in all parts of society we all redouble efforts to stamp out any culture that is anything other than inclusive, welcoming and supportive and does not have any tolerance at all for misogyny, violence or inappropriate behaviour in the workplace. I think we would both agree that the vast majority of members of An Garda Síochána and the Irish Prison Service serve their organisations and our country with integrity each and every day of their careers. We are rightly proud of the jobs they do, often under difficult circumstances. Professionalism and integrity are taught and promoted right from training for new recruits through to each and every rank and grade in both institutions.
The prevailing culture in disciplined organisations like An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service must be one that ensures there is no tolerance of inappropriate behaviours and that where a person is subjected to such behaviour or witnesses it, they are empowered to speak up. Where people do speak up, they must be supported and the organisation must deal firmly with perpetrators. Central to this are the organisations' codes of ethics. Both organisations' codes include the commitment for each member to support, encourage and facilitate speaking up and report wrongdoing at every level in the organisation. Cultural audits also play a very important role in getting to the heart of what the Deputy is suggesting, such as the one conducted at regular intervals by An Garda Síochána. I am pleased to say that one is planned for later this year by the Prison Service. These audits have an important role to play in highlighting any cultural issues in an organisation and in providing a basis for actions to address any issues that emerge through such audits.
Within the ranks of An Garda Síochána there is a welcome and growing gender diversity. This is something that has been lacking in some of the other organisations the Deputy referred to. Sixty four years have passed since the first 12 women joined An Garda Síochána. Today, almost 30% of Garda members are women, including both deputy commissioners and 50% of assistant commissioners. It is worth noting that both organisations have been led by women. Achieving improved gender diversity within An Garda Síochána is equally important for the organisation as it is for the society it serves.
I am interested in what the Minister spoke about with regard to cultural audits into An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service. What he is saying is welcome. In politics, we always react to a scandal. We always do a review after the fact. What was discovered in the Metropolitan Police in London was absolutely shocking with the level of racism and misogyny and the difficulties within that police force. Then we discovered that issues also existed within the Irish Defence Forces, which would not have been a surprise for people like Senator Tom Clonan, who has been dealing with this for 23 years. What I am trying to do here, working with the Minister, is provide a platform or facility for anybody who has experienced cultural issues within these sort of hierarchical arms of the State, which have traditionally been gender imbalanced and can sometimes be the breeding ground for such things.
We do not want a situation in ten or 15 years' time where someone in the Irish Prison Service or An Garda Síochána says something happened to them and there was not a vehicle for them to express the hurt, the pain and the problem they were having.
I very much appreciate and welcome what Deputy Ó Ríordáin is trying to do here. There is always an additional onus of responsibility on a disciplined or hierarchical organisation in terms of being even more acutely aware around things like culture, inclusion, support, and empowering people to speak up and to speak out. On the topic of cultural audits, I am happy to get a detailed note to Deputy Ó Ríordáin on this. An Garda Síochána plays an important role. The plan for the Prison Service later this year will be very important in trying to advance what the Deputy is trying to do. There are some encouraging signs in the organisations. The oversight structures which the gardaí in this country are subject to are important and helpful. We have a Policing Authority and we have an ombudsman. We are going to debate again next week how to make sure those oversight structures are right in the new legislation. The diversity in An Garda Síochána is really quite important. I met the now retired assistant commissioner Orla McPartlin. When she joined, 3% of the members were female. Now more than 30% are female, as are both deputy commissioners, 50% of assistant commissioners, and we had a female Commissioner as well. In the aftermath of the Moody case, I am conscious of the commitments the Commissioner made as well.
It could be argued though that there were probably oversight structures within the Defence Forces as well over the past 23 years and they may have made that argument as well in order to defend how they were operating. We are on the same page here. We need the Minister to come back to the House in six months to give an update to Members as to what those cultural audits have discovered. We need to be proactive. Far too often, as they say in politics, we react to a scandal, a report, to somebody speaking out - a whistleblower. What if there is somebody currently serving in An Garda Síochána or in the Irish Prison Service who does not feel they have a facility to come forward, who is suffering this type of abuse and who will speak to it being part of a culture and that we could potentially root that out by not waiting for this person to come forward and by having a facility within these two organisations for them to speak to. I am quite sure the vast majority of members of An Garda Síochána and the Irish Prison Service are fine, upstanding individuals but we have to maintain that trust which can often be brittle. I have faith in what the Minister is saying in terms of cultural audits but they probably need to be quite robust to ensure they empower people to speak their truth.
I will certainly reflect on the comments Deputy Ó Ríordáin has made this evening and will feed them back into the Department and have conversations with colleagues there. I think we would all agree that no organisation or no part of society, as we know through our work on many issues, is immune to wrongdoing or discriminatory actions and the like. What is really important though is how an organisation responds when that happens. I was encouraged when the Paul Moody case took place. I will not comment on a specific case in the House but after that, in August 2022, the Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris, confirmed that An Garda Síochána would conduct a specific review following on from the case, primarily from that lessons learned perspective, and that he would report, where appropriate, to both me as Minister, and to the Policing Authority. I can tell the House this evening that this review is now at a very advanced stage and once it has been completed the Commissioner intends to provide it to both myself and to the Policing Authority. I am very much looking forward - if that is the right phrase - to receiving this report because it is an important piece of work in trying to provide that assurance the Deputy and I are seeking but also in trying to make sure that any lessons that need to be learned, for want of a better phrase, can be learned quickly and to ensure that exactly what the Deputy is saying is undertaken within An Garda Síochána.
