Seán Haughey
Question:1. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the Council of Europe summit in Reykjavík, Iceland. [24330/23]
View answerCouncil of Europe
Questions (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Richard Boyd Barrett
Question:2. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe. [24732/23]
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Paul Murphy
Question:3. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe. [24738/23]
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Mary Lou McDonald
Question:4. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe summit in Reykjavík, Iceland. [24233/23]
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Mick Barry
Question:5. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe. [25549/23]
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Neasa Hourigan
Question:6. Deputy Neasa Hourigan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe. [25679/23]
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Ivana Bacik
Question:7. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the Council of Europe summit. [25766/23]
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Bríd Smith
Question:8. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the Council of Europe. [26170/23]
View answerOral answers (16 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos 1 to 8, inclusive, together.
I attended the Council of Europe summit in Reykjavik, Iceland, on 16 and 17 May. The Council of Europe was established in 1949 in the wake of the Second World War to uphold human rights, democracy, and the rule of law in Europe. The summit was only the fourth time it has met at leaders' level since its foundation.
During our Presidency of the Council of Europe last year, we pressed for the meeting to take place following Russia's invasion of Ukraine and its subsequent expulsion from the Council. We worked closely with the Icelandic Presidency in preparing the summit and the Reyjakvik Declaration that it adopted. The declaration reaffirmed the important work of the Council of Europe and expressed strong solidarity with Ukraine. The declaration also commits member states to fully implementing the decisions of the European Court of Human Rights.
Ahead of the summit proper, I met with the Secretary General of the Council of Europe.
Since Russia’s departure, the Council has been under increased financial pressure so Ireland pledged an additional voluntary contribution of €385,000, which will fund the work of the European Court of Human Rights as well as the Council's work on Belarus, its work on violence against women under the Istanbul Convention and also on Kosovo and LGBTI+ rights.
At the summit, I joined other heads of state and government in signing an instrument to establish a register of damage for Ukraine. It will help to ensure that Russia and its leaders will be held responsible for their actions. I also co-chaired a round-table discussion on the theme of supporting Ukraine in solidarity and accountability alongside the Slovenian President. This theme was also taken up in the general debate of the summit. I also took the opportunity to meet with the president of the European Court of Human Rights, Ms Justice Síofra O'Leary, who is an Irishwoman. I commended her on the important work of the court in upholding the European Convention on Human Rights and noted its importance to the peace process and Good Friday Agreement.
Following the summit, I had a bilateral meeting with the Prime Minister of Iceland, Ms Katrín Jakobsdóttir. Ireland and Iceland, as north Atlantic islands, have much in common and are very like-minded on many of the challenges the world faces, including climate action and protecting biodiversity and our oceans. We discussed how to intensify co-operation between our two countries at all levels and I invited her to make a formal visit to Ireland.
I thank the Taoiseach. We have a lot of questions. Can we try to stick to one minute per question if possible? Deputy Haughey will speak first.
It is clear from what the Taoiseach said that one of the main objectives of the recent meeting of the Council of Europe and Iceland was to show solidarity with Ukraine and in particular to see how Russia can be held accountable for its war crimes. Russia has undoubtedly committed many war crimes in Ukraine, including attacks on civilians and on critical infrastructure. We have just seen the blowing up of the Nova Kakhovka dam. However, there has also been rape and torture as well as the deportation of civilians, including many children. How to achieve this accountability is the question. It could be done by supporting the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, supporting Ukraine's cases at the International Court of Justice and European Court of Human Rights or by supporting those trying to establish a special tribunal on the crime of aggression against Ukraine, which includes the preservation and storing of evidence for future trials.
Can the Taoiseach confirm that Ireland is playing an active role in trying to get this accountability and outline what our approach is in this regard? As I said, there are a number of approaches to it. What is our approach to it in order that we can all achieve the same objective of getting this accountability?
Yet again, it is noticeable that despite the sort of laudable concerns the Taoiseach had about human rights at the Council of Europe, there was no mention of Palestine. Yesterday I met with the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in Israel. I met its representatives again at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. They are, in a word, looking for states to be consistent in terms of the application of international law and for accountability for states that are violating human rights. They have detailed reports about how there is systematic denial of human rights to Palestinians going on and, critically, that the International Court of Justice, at the recommendation of the assembly and the committee, is looking for submissions on the question of whether the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory has become permanent and, therefore, that the possibility for Palestinian self-determination is no longer viable because Israel, in practice, on the ground and by policy, has no intention of giving back territory it has seized by force. The commission is looking for the Government to submit to that effect. I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the resolution passed by the Dáil in 2021 when we unanimously acknowledged the de facto annexation of Palestinian territory by Israel but have done nothing about it. When are we going to apply the same principles and requirement for accountability to Israel for its violations of international law on human rights that we are applying in the case of Ukraine? When are we going to ask the International Criminal Court to prioritise its investigations into war crimes and crimes against humanity against Israel as it is doing on the question of Russia in Ukraine?
The Council of Europe has found that Ireland is in breach of its labour rights obligations. In its conclusions, the European Committee of Social Rights stated that the situation in Ireland is not in conformity with Article 4.1 of the European Social Charter on the ground that the minimum wage paid to workers of 18 and 19 years of age does not ensure a decent standard of living. The committee is referring specifically to the scandalous situation of so-called sub-minimum rates of pay whereby employers are legally permitted to pay young people even less than the inadequate minimum wage. Those aged 17 and under can be paid 70% of the minimum wage, which is less than €8 per hour. Those aged 18 can be paid 80% of the minimum wage, and 19-years-olds can be paid 90% of the minimum wage. Will the Government be taking the opportunity this week to rectify that situation by allowing our Bill to abolish sub-minimum rates of pay to ensure pay equality for young workers pass through Second Stage in the Dáil?
I am sure the Taoiseach will join me in welcoming the interim resolution adopted by the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg. The resolution again expressed serious concerns about Britain's so-called legacy Bill, which is currently before the House of Lords. Members of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement are over there at the moment. It seems as if the British Government is hell-bent on ploughing ahead with its legislation. The only positive way forward is for the British Government to withdraw the Bill. It is opposed by families and victims groups, as well as all political parties across the island of Ireland, North and South, and all human rights organisations. The Bill is a cruel betrayal of victims and will do untold damage to reconciliation should the British Government continue this reckless course. There will be a number of legal challenges and that is why it is important that the burden does not fall solely to victims who have already been impacted by the failing of the British state over multiple decades to deliver the truth, justice and accountability to which those victims are entitled. Will the Taoiseach commit to an interstate case to be taken to the European Court of Human Rights if the British Government continues with this unilateral action? This reckless and unilateral disregard for international and legally binding agreements sets a dangerous precedent and may have global consequences. We have an obligation, and the Taoiseach has an obligation, to stop it here and now.
Does the Taoiseach intend to summon an immediate meeting of the Low Pay Commission to address the Government's breach of Article 4.1 of the European Social Charter on the issue of the national minimum wage and young workers in this country? The European Committee of Social Rights has stated that the fact that someone who is 18 gets 80% of the minimum wage and someone who is 19 gets 90% of the minimum wage pushes them below the threshold of 50% of average earnings that the charter states is the minimum for a decent standard of living. The committee has also said that the Government and this State are not in conformity with the European Social Charter. Deputy Paul Murphy has asked a relevant question as to whether the Government intends to support the People Before Profit-Solidarity Bill that aims to abolish these exemptions. The Bill will come up for debate tomorrow morning and will be voted upon tomorrow night. Does the Taoiseach intend to summon an immediate meeting of the Low Pay Commission to address this serious matter?
My question relates to the same subject. The Taoiseach did not mention it but did the issue of Ireland's breach of the Council of Europe's labour rights obligations come up for discussion while he was in Iceland? Thousands of people will be interested to know if it did. Approximately 34,000 workers are paid sub-minimum wage rates in this State. Half of those are young workers and apprentices comprise the other half. Many people do not know that is the case. I was talking to journalists who had no idea that beneath the age of 20, three different minimum wage rates apply and fall far short of anything that could give people a standard of living that would allow them to buy things, pay rent, go on buses and all the rest of it. The wages paid are as low as €7.91 per hour, which is 70% of the minimum wage.
Shame.
The only way to address that is to change the law, and we will attempt to do that tomorrow morning with our Bill. We will see what way the Taoiseach votes tomorrow evening. I ask the Government not to submit an amendment in order to kick the issue down the road for another year. There may not be much more than a year left in this Government's term of office. People are getting sick of things being kicked down the road. We need to deal with them now. These are people's everyday living standards. Young people should not be discriminated against.
I add my voice to what Deputy Conway-Walsh has said. We are hardly shocked that the Council of Europe has serious concern over the legacy Bill that has been proposed by the British Government. I have often said that the British Government introduced this Bill in order that it will not have to deal with the reality of what it did in the North and the dirty war it prosecuted in Ireland, collusion and all that went with it. The Bill is also about what Britain has been involved in since and what it may be involved in into the future. It is about protecting its military, those with whom it collaborates and what its intelligence agencies have always done. We need to ensure an Irish Government will stand up for Irish citizens. That is absolutely necessary. It is about what we need to do in the future beyond words.
Deputy Haughey asked how we can achieve accountability. We do, of course, support the work of the European Court of Human Rights and the International Criminal Court. We are open to the possibility of a special tribunal. The difficulty we have, of course, is that Russia, or at least the current Russian Government, does not recognise any of those bodies-----
Neither do the Americans.
-----and that is why it is important that Ukraine is supported in its attempts to defend its territory. In the meantime, we are collecting the evidence and will keep it in place for future prosecutions. We are helping to fund that. We have also agreed to establish a register of damages in Reykjavik and Ireland as part of that. We are helping in any way we can.
Deputy Boyd Barrett asked if the issue of Israel and Palestine was on the agenda in Reykjavik. It was not. That does not mean it is not important. It is not possible to have everything on the agenda at every meeting. It is worth pointing out that Israel has withdrawn from territories it has occupied in the past, for example, Sinai, south Lebanon and parts of Jordan. That is just an historical fact.
The Taoiseach is not suggesting that Israel is planning to withdraw.
On the issue of the national minimum wage, we have the sixth highest national minimum wage in Europe when adjusted for the cost of living and purchasing power parity. The increase this year is 7.8%, which is ahead of the rate of inflation projected for this year. On sub-minimum youth rates, in my capacity as Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment last year, I wrote to the Low Pay Commission and asked it to consider the matter. That consideration would include research and at the right time, the commission will convene a meeting on that point. We expect the advice of the commission this year and we will be in a position to make a decision before changes come into place in January next year. One way or another, a decision on the matter will definitely be made during the term of this Government. The matter was not raised with me in Iceland.
On the UK Government's legacy Bill, I restate the Government's opposition. We articulate that opposition at every opportunity when we engage with the British Government. The Bill has not yet become law and as the Tánaiste has said, we do not rule out taking part in a legal challenge or interstate case but it is too soon to make that judgment now. I have met victims' groups and they know that the possibility of prosecutions in many of these cases is very low. However, they want that possibility to remain. They want investigations to happen and want to know what happened. They want people to have to account for their actions.
I am reflecting on Deputy Ó Murchú's remarks when I say this is not just about the British army but is also about IRA terrorists and loyalists. Most of the victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland were victims of paramilitary groups and they deserve justice too. We all need to look into our hearts to see what we can do on the legacy issue to help the disappeared to be found, to help victims of violence and to ensure that people who committed war crimes are held to account. That includes IRA terrorists as well as loyalist paramilitaries.
Departmental Strategies
Questions (9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
Mary Lou McDonald
Question:9. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the rational reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [22486/23]
View answerIvana Bacik
Question:10. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [25767/23]
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Cian O'Callaghan
Question:11. Deputy Cian O'Callaghan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [25961/23]
View answerRose Conway-Walsh
Question:12. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester, recently published by his Department. [25965/23]
View answerNeasa Hourigan
Question:13. Deputy Neasa Hourigan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester. [25951/23]
View answerRichard Boyd Barrett
Question:14. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [26164/23]
View answerPaul Murphy
Question:15. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [26167/23]
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Brendan Smith
Question:16. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [26402/23]
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Christopher O'Sullivan
Question:17. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [28079/23]
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Joe Flaherty
Question:18. Deputy Joe Flaherty asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [28110/23]
View answerRose Conway-Walsh
Question:19. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme for the European semester recently published by his Department. [28361/23]
View answerOral answers (12 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 19, inclusive, together.
Ireland submitted its national reform programme, NRP, for 2023 to the European Commission on 4 May. The NRP was also laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. The NRP is an element of the European semester, the annual cycle of economic and social policy co-ordination among EU member states. As part of the semester, Ireland, along with all other member states, is required to prepare and submit an NRP to the European Commission each year. The NRP provides an overview of economic reforms and policy actions under way in Ireland, including responses to country-specific recommendations received from the Commission. Since 2022, the NRP also reports on implementation of the recovery and resilience facility.
Challenges outlined in Ireland's NRP for 2023 include: housing; climate action and the environment; encouraging participation in the labour market; promoting balanced, fair and inclusive development; and planning for the future and long-term fiscal sustainability. Development of the NRP was co-ordinated by the Department of the Taoiseach, with input from relevant Departments and agencies, drawing on Government strategies such as the national development plan, Project Ireland 2040, Housing for All and the climate action plan. During the programme's preparation, stakeholders were invited to make submissions on the main challenges to be included.
The Taoiseach stated at the national economic dialogue yesterday that shovel-ready projects need to be started now and cited the lack of capacity to spend the money available for capital projects. The western rail corridor is a shovel-ready project. I was really glad to hear the Taoiseach say that, but, yet again, there are only vague commitments to increasing regional connectivity in the NRP. The Taoiseach mentioned the five "d's" in his speech yesterday. There were four originally, and then one was added a bit later on. The first two were related to demographics. Since the rail line to which the project in question was closed in the 1970s, the population of Connacht and of the towns located along its length have increased by 220%. In terms of decarbonisation, transport is the only sector in Europe that is experiencing net increases in emissions. We have significant opportunities for growth potential in the green economy along the western seaboard if only we had the necessary infrastructure. The western rail corridor has become a byword for regional development and investment in the west.
What I am really concerned about - maybe the Taoiseach can clear this up - is that there are mixed messages coming from the Government. The relevant Green Party Minister is going to the west and making declarations that part of the line to Sligo could be used for something else. It is important that the Taoiseach stand over his words that shovel-ready projects that can be started immediately are commenced and that we fulfil all of the "d's" that were outlined as priorities yesterday.
On reform, I want to ask about a 2008 report from the Law Reform Commission. The report in question took the form of a consultation paper and it contains a number of recommendations in respect of expert witnesses. In 2016, a report was published by the commission in which it reiterated the need for reform and clarity in the use of expert witnesses. There is serious concern about the role of expert witnesses in cases where children who allege abuse are moved into the custody of their alleged abusers. Surely the time has long since passed for the recommendations of the Law Reform Commission on expert witnesses to be implemented. When will they be implemented?
The NRP acknowledges the problems with assessments of need but has less to say, when one has obtained an assessment, about the resources that are made available. I will give the Taoiseach an example. The case involving Theo, who is 13, and his parents, is quite urgent. Theo has severe autism and intellectual disability. He is in residential care but he has not been in a school environment for a year now. Since 2019, when he was in school, Theo was being sent home because the school did not have the resources to provide for his needs. The educational welfare officer and the special educational needs organiser, SENO, have said that they can find no placement for him at all. He has nowhere to go to school. All that is being offered is home tuition, which means he would be robbed of the opportunity to interact socially. His parents do not want that for him, but he is being told there is nothing else. Essentially, that is robbing Theo, a young man, of the possibility of socialisation and a proper education, which he is entitled to. That is unacceptable. I ask the Taoiseach to look into the case. Indeed, it is not only about Theo, as nobody should be put in a position whereby he or she cannot have the education he or she is entitled to.
The NRP deals with climate action and the environment. I want to ask the Taoiseach what would it take for this Government to reverse its disastrous course on data centres and reject the policy of consciously seeking to attract what is the digital toxic waste of the 21st century. We have an incredible situation, unparalleled anywhere else in the world, whereby data centres are using up more electricity than all of our urban homes combined. Will it stop when we reach 30%? Will it stop when we have more brownouts? Will it stop when we have blackouts? In circumstances where these data centres provide very few jobs and where they use inordinate amounts of electricity and substantial amounts of water, what will it take to stop what is going on? This is all happening in a context where we have to change how our economy operates. The things that are currently run directly on the basis of fossil fuels have to be shifted to electric, and we need to move rapidly to renewable energy. If we keep expanding energy usage on unnecessary things such as these big companies running algorithms to target people with advertisements, which is a big part of what is happening in these data centres, we will make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get to 100% renewables.
The NRP refers to investment in infrastructure. One of the most basic infrastructural needs of any town or village is adequate wastewater treatment. I want to bring to the Taoiseach's attention the village of Shannonvale. The park in Shannonvale, which was used by children and families to play, now is unsafe because of excrement essentially coming up through the surface. There is a need to invest in the wastewater infrastructure there. The Government announced two programmes that local authorities can apply to. One involves development-led infrastructure, where that would be replaced, which can be sourced by local authorities. The other relates to villages that do not currently have access to adequate wastewater. Cork County Council had an opportunity to apply for funding from both of these programmes. In the case of Shannonvale, it did not apply. That beggars belief in view of the scenes that I have described. Will the Taoiseach investigate why Cork County Council did not include Shannonvale on its list for either of these schemes in order to resolve the problem to which I refer?
Can we get brief contributions from Deputies Bríd Smith and Ó Murchú?
I also want to ask the Taoiseach about data centres and comment on the astonishing speed and insistence of the Ministers, Deputies Eamon Ryan and Coveney, to protect the data centre sector in light of the statistics showing a substantial increase in the amount of electricity - up 9% in the past five years - that is being used by these centres. As previous speakers indicated, the sector's usage accounts for the equivalent of all urban household use. What I would like to see is an honest open debate and discussion about what data centres are good for. Some might say that they are good for absolutely nothing, but we know that we use Twitter and all sorts of other social media platforms. To criticise somebody for using social media in order to be critical of the Government's policy on this is nonsense. The Government needs to be much more honest with the population. It also needs to facilitate a real discussion in this House about what data centres do for society. If they are going to gobble up 30% of the power on offer from the national grid by 2030, that raises a serious question.
The NRP deals with housing and Housing for All. I again want to raise the issue of housing adaptation grants. The fact is that Louth County Council is not accepting applications for these grants at present because it does not have the funding it needs. The Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy O'Donnell, has spoken of a review. From the point of view of people with disabilities, particularly those who are older and who have mobility issues, such a review needs to look at how we ensure there is sufficient funding and that we do not have cases like that to which I refer where there is not enough money in the fund and where Louth County Council and other local authorities are not accepting applications and are working through a backlog.
None of this is fit to deliver for people.
Deputy Conway-Walsh raised the issue of the western rail corridor. I am not sure it is classified as a shovel-ready project. A new railway requires a railway order. Perhaps that is not the case because it is an old railway, but I am not sure it is as simple as saying it is shovel ready. I would say a lot would have to be done before it went to tender, let alone put a shovel in the ground. It is a project that has merit, whether to get people from Tuam to Galway and other places by train or for rail freight, and it is being examined by the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, in the context of the all-island rail review.
Deputy O'Callaghan raised an issue in respect of Law Reform Commission recommendations. I will have to come back to him in writing on that. I do not have the information to hand.
Similarly, Deputy Boyd Barrett raised an individual case - I believe the young man's name was Theo - but it is not really possible for me to comment on any individual case here without knowing the facts or having permission to look into it from the person involved. I will certainly ask my office or that of the Minister of State with responsibility for special education to engage with the Deputy on it.
In respect of data centres and electricity, to clarify and correct something Deputy Murphy said, we have never had brownouts. We have had amber alerts. We have not had a red alert and we have certainly never had a brownout or a blackout. There has been a fair bit of scaremongering in that regard, and for the Deputy to say we have had brownouts is just not correct. There have been amber alerts but not red alerts, and there have been no brownouts or blackouts.
In regard to data centres generally, as I said earlier today, over 100,000 people work in the tech sector in Ireland. They might not work in data centres but their jobs are dependent on data centres, and the companies that require them pay billions of euro in tax in Ireland, which we use to pay for healthcare, housing, education and other things. We have to make sure that is part of the debate. As I said earlier as well, EirGrid has not issued any new connections for data centres since July 2020, nearly three years ago, and new applications are assessed on a case-by-case basis, taking into account the Government's policy statement on data centres.
Deputy Smith linked data centres to social media and I think that is a bit facile, but I do agree we should have an open and honest debate about these things. If we had an open and honest debate about data centres, we would know, for example, that Zoom and Webex, technologies that enable remote working, which is so good for family life, require data centres. We would know, for example, that financial information, making electronic payments, Internet banking and other services we use every day require digitisation. We would know, for example, that increasingly, we are going to need data for medicine because more and more often, scans are done digitally and samples taken go to the path lab and are examined individually-----
Would we know how much goes onto the algorithm? Can we open the black box?
All those things are requirements and I am sure there will be a growing requirement for all those things.
In respect of wastewater in Shannon Vale, I am not sure why Cork County Council did not apply for funding but I will make inquiries in that regard. Those funds are in place precisely to solve the kinds of problems Deputy O'Sullivan articulated so well. There may be good reasons the council did not apply, so I do not want to jump to any conclusions, but we will certainly make inquiries with it.